Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted January 13, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 As much as I love love love their work and know the headers will be beautiful the 6% increase over 5G flow puts me on the fence. I have to decide how much the spring connectors and a pretty new stainless exhaust mean to me as 5G owner. Any way to analyze potential performance without building a demo set and dyno'ing them? I've got engine modeling formulas I can run to estimate peak torque rpm based on displacement and exhaust primary size. For a 4 cylinder 781 cc engine with 33mm exhaust primaries would put the target peak torque around 9,815 rpm; 35mm primaries puts target peak torque around 11,040 rpm. I hear ya, Man... well, my mild steel '99 headers are not gonna last forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted January 13, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 As much as I love love love their work and know the headers will be beautiful the 6% increase over 5G flow puts me on the fence. I have to decide how much the spring connectors and a pretty new stainless exhaust mean to me as 5G owner. Any way to analyze potential performance without building a demo set and dyno'ing them? I've got engine modeling formulas I can run to estimate peak torque rpm based on displacement and exhaust primary size. For a 4 cylinder 781 cc engine with 33mm exhaust primaries would put the target peak torque around 9,815 rpm; 35mm primaries puts target peak torque around 11,040 rpm What happens as the displacement increases? Can you show say 825cc and 870cc and 925cc? Just in case anyone here has a couple of spare engines being prepped for more displacement.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted January 13, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 As much as I love love love their work and know the headers will be beautiful the 6% increase over 5G flow puts me on the fence. I have to decide how much the spring connectors and a pretty new stainless exhaust mean to me as 5G owner. Any way to analyze potential performance without building a demo set and dyno'ing them? I've got engine modeling formulas I can run to estimate peak torque rpm based on displacement and exhaust primary size. For a 4 cylinder 781 cc engine with 33mm exhaust primaries would put the target peak torque around 9,815 rpm; 35mm primaries puts target peak torque around 11,040 rpm What happens as the displacement increases? Can you show say 825cc and 870cc and 925cc? Just in case anyone here has a couple of spare engines being prepped for more displacement.... If your strokin' with Falicon, and it is after April let me know and maybe we can get a discount on multiple cranks. Give me a little and I'll run the numbers. Have you ground the welds smooth on your 5g headers? That's the way to fully take advantage of the 32mm. Makes a nice difference at the over run at the top with much less drop in pull... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Ugh :/ Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted January 13, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 As much as I love love love their work and know the headers will be beautiful the 6% increase over 5G flow puts me on the fence. I have to decide how much the spring connectors and a pretty new stainless exhaust mean to me as 5G owner. Any way to analyze potential performance without building a demo set and dyno'ing them? I've got engine modeling formulas I can run to estimate peak torque rpm based on displacement and exhaust primary size. For a 4 cylinder 781 cc engine with 33mm exhaust primaries would put the target peak torque around 9,815 rpm; 35mm primaries puts target peak torque around 11,040 rpm What happens as the displacement increases? Can you show say 825cc and 870cc and 925cc? Just in case anyone here has a couple of spare engines being prepped for more displacement.... Calculated Target max torque rpm cc 33mm 35mm Primary ID 781 9,815 11,040 825 9,290 10,450 870 8,810 9,910 925 8,285 9,320 Let me know on cranks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFRRR Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I'm in, nearly what ever the size of tubing TYGA makes for the 800. It can only get better, no matter what:-) I think the configuration on the headers with springs are great news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted January 13, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 Good news and bad news. Just heard back from Matt: Thanks for your info. Considering our current tooling, the next step up for the primary pipes would be 38.1mm x 1mm wall, thus giving a 36mm ID. A tad bigger than you want to go. Tooling for the 38.1mm x 1.5 wall pipe could be ordered, but takes 2-3 months for delivery, and as we don’t have any other use for the tooling at this point, we’d need to figure that into the costs. I have a couple of other ideas. I’ll get back to you soon. Regards, Matt Thoughts??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted January 13, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 As much as I love love love their work and know the headers will be beautiful the 6% increase over 5G flow puts me on the fence. I have to decide how much the spring connectors and a pretty new stainless exhaust mean to me as 5G owner. Any way to analyze potential performance without building a demo set and dyno'ing them? I've got engine modeling formulas I can run to estimate peak torque rpm based on displacement and exhaust primary size. For a 4 cylinder 781 cc engine with 33mm exhaust primaries would put the target peak torque around 9,815 rpm; 35mm primaries puts target peak torque around 11,040 rpm What happens as the displacement increases? Can you show say 825cc and 870cc and 925cc? Just in case anyone here has a couple of spare engines being prepped for more displacement.... If your strokin' with Falicon, and it is after April let me know and maybe we can get a discount on multiple cranks. Give me a little and I'll run the numbers. Have you ground the welds smooth on your 5g headers? That's the way to fully take advantage of the 32mm. Makes a nice difference at the over run at the top with much less drop in pull... Have a TBR full system...not sure I want to put it on my track bike build but may. Really want a new Tyga with RC45 dimensions...so close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I like the sound of that Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted January 13, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 Good news and bad news. Just heard back from Matt: Thanks for your info. Considering our current tooling, the next step up for the primary pipes would be 38.1mm x 1mm wall, thus giving a 36mm ID. A tad bigger than you want to go. Tooling for the 38.1mm x 1.5 wall pipe could be ordered, but takes 2-3 months for delivery, and as we don’t have any other use for the tooling at this point, we’d need to figure that into the costs. I have a couple of other ideas. I’ll get back to you soon. Regards, Matt Thoughts??? Current Tyga tooling is better than stock 5G and adding to the cost of the headers to cover the new tooling is too big a burden for our members. When companies I have worked for have ordered tooling for my clients projects and tried to increase the cost of the product to cover tooling expenditures it has been suggested that would mean that the tooling could only EVER be used for the product that paid for it. This is only a negotiation tactic and is not legally enforceable. This sometimes helps the manufacturer see that the investment should be covered as part of their business investment and not fully burdened in the cost of our product. REALLY Interested to see what other ideas he has but barring something truly surprising that gets us to 35mm ID I am still in for a couple sets of Tyga at 33mm ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted January 13, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 Good news and bad news. Just heard back from Matt: Thanks for your info. Considering our current tooling, the next step up for the primary pipes would be 38.1mm x 1mm wall, thus giving a 36mm ID. A tad bigger than you want to go. Tooling for the 38.1mm x 1.5 wall pipe could be ordered, but takes 2-3 months for delivery, and as we don’t have any other use for the tooling at this point, we’d need to figure that into the costs. I have a couple of other ideas. I’ll get back to you soon. Regards, Matt Thoughts??? Current Tyga tooling is better than stock 5G and adding to the cost of the headers to cover the new tooling is too big a burden for our members. When companies I have worked for have ordered tooling for my clients projects and tried to increase the cost of the product to cover tooling expenditures it has been suggested that would mean that the tooling could only EVER be used for the product that paid for it. This is only a negotiation tactic and is not legally enforceable. This sometimes helps the manufacturer see that the investment should be covered as part of their business investment and not fully burdened in the cost of our product. REALLY Interested to see what other ideas he has but barring something truly surprising that gets us to 35mm ID I am still in for a couple sets of Tyga at 33mm ID. Well, looks like we can go bigger or smaller now or wait and pay for later... I'm curious what Matt is looking into. I'll share as soon as I find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted January 13, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 As much as I love love love their work and know the headers will be beautiful the 6% increase over 5G flow puts me on the fence. I have to decide how much the spring connectors and a pretty new stainless exhaust mean to me as 5G owner. Any way to analyze potential performance without building a demo set and dyno'ing them? I've got engine modeling formulas I can run to estimate peak torque rpm based on displacement and exhaust primary size. For a 4 cylinder 781 cc engine with 33mm exhaust primaries would put the target peak torque around 9,815 rpm; 35mm primaries puts target peak torque around 11,040 rpm What happens as the displacement increases? Can you show say 825cc and 870cc and 925cc? Just in case anyone here has a couple of spare engines being prepped for more displacement.... If your strokin' with Falicon, and it is after April let me know and maybe we can get a discount on multiple cranks. Give me a little and I'll run the numbers. Have you ground the welds smooth on your 5g headers? That's the way to fully take advantage of the 32mm. Makes a nice difference at the over run at the top with much less drop in pull... In contact with Falicon and trying to determine if the juice is worth the squeeze in converting to a 360* crank for one of my engines and subsequent cam work to make it all sing together. Maybe we can send them 3-4 VFR cranks to be stroked even if I decide to stay 180. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted January 13, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 Response requested: Out of the people who have committed to purchase (see post #1), who would not purchase if these are the final dimensions (33mm/40.7mm/48.8 mm) of the Tyga headers? I need to know who is out and who is still in if we are unable to get Tyga to make the tooling change. I'm still in as my systems are for road bikes not track bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer boOZZIE Posted January 13, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 Response requested: Out of the people who have committed to purchase (see post #1), who would not purchase if these are the final dimensions (33mm/40.7mm/48.8 mm) of the Tyga headers? I need to know who is out and who is still in if we are unable to get Tyga to make the tooling change. I'm still in as my systems are for road bikes not track bikes. Still in Same as Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WackenSS Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Im definitely not out, but I feel like this should be done 100% optimal for our bikes. However, I'm not an exhaust guy, so I have to thrust you guys about the rc45 size being good. For me and my 5th gen, with already grinded welds, this could actually gain weight? And I end up with nothing but a shining gorgeous plumbing if I am reading this correctly? It would be an easy decision if I only knew the pricing between optimal (rc45) and almost (5th gen + size). I would rather spend another 100usd for the rc45! Everything needs boost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I would hope that tyga would build a few of the options and then dyno test them and pick the optimal set up for production. Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jim v Posted January 13, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 I'm still in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted January 13, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 I would hope that tyga would build a few of the options and then dyno test them and pick the optimal set up for production. Tyga is not developing headers for the VFR800; they didn't seek out this project, we asked I begged them to build these headers to our specs. They are building a spec project that a customer brought to them and they responded appropriately by sharing their current capabilities. They don't even have a VFR800 to put on a dyno. I reached out to the members who want to buy the headers to find out if the 33mm primaries were a deal breaker for anyone and gauge commitment... in particular, to find out if I had to lay out the $6000 for 10 headers would I then be stuck with them... btw, we haven't made the 10 header threshold yet. Matt is researching other options, let's see what he can do. I'll share the info as soon as I receive it. ... For me and my 5th gen, with already grinded welds, this could actually gain weight? ... No, it shouldn't gain weight. The headers with 1mm walls will definitely be much lighter... if thicker walls are needed to achieve the 35mm primary ID then they won't be as light, but they still should be lighter than stock OEM headers... even the 98-99 catless headers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Okay sounds good. I'm just hoping for an eventual replacement for when my two brothers header does eventually fail. And I am hoping that they will perform as good or better. I'm not knocking you or tyga and I do really appreciate the effort you are putting in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Wow Actually performance headers for the VFR800!!! I have skimmed through the thread, I would be in for a set of Tyga (or Two bros) headers in the sizes provided by Tyga or in the RC46 size (preferred) Has any one thought to see if Tyga will offer Cans and mid pipe for this system or is the standard to just use the Two Bros cans/mid pipe (Suspect best hp due to single can) Looking forward to see where thing will go next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted January 13, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 Wow Actually performance headers for the VFR800!!! I have skimmed through the thread, I would be in for a set of Tyga (or Two bros) headers in the sizes provided by Tyga or in the RC46 size (preferred) Has any one thought to see if Tyga will offer Cans and mid pipe for this system or is the standard to just use the Two Bros cans/mid pipe (Suspect best hp due to single can) Looking forward to see where thing will go next! Hi and welcome... I fought to have the headers made and I left the production of a full system up to Tyga. I believe the VFR community's response to these headers and sales numbers will dictate whether Tyga commits any more resources and time into making a full system... also, it would require at least two different mid-pipes and mufflers based on the different generations of VFR800s. Owners of the Tyga headers will be responsible for mating the headers to the rest of their exhaust and any fueling adjustments that are needed... this is not plug and play. Are you still interested and committed to purchase when they become available? Tyga does offer exhaust mufflers of different lengths and materials that can be purchased and utilized, see link below. http://tyga-performance.com/site/index.php?cPath=71_815 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Rush, thats understandable from Tyga's side of things. Considering this, What will be the exit pipe location? 6th gen, 5th Gen or rc51? My only concern would be that the headers could be installed on a 6th gen with under tail exhaust( I have no issues making a custom mid pipe or adapters made) as long as the exit location is not in outerspace lol Any ideas on timeline and cost? Tristan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted January 13, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 "I've got engine modeling formulas I can run to estimate peak torque rpm based on displacement and exhaust primary size. For a 4 cylinder 781 cc engine with 33mm exhaust primaries would put the target peak torque around 9,815 rpm; 35mm primaries puts target peak torque around 11,040 rpm." Well I can tell you those peaks are off. I have an original,TBR system plus many other mods including intake runners, these put peak torque on 5th gen up from 8500rpm to 9500rpm. These have 36mm id headers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted January 13, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2016 "I've got engine modeling formulas I can run to estimate peak torque rpm based on displacement and exhaust primary size. For a 4 cylinder 781 cc engine with 33mm exhaust primaries would put the target peak torque around 9,815 rpm; 35mm primaries puts target peak torque around 11,040 rpm." Well I can tell you those peaks are off. I have an original,TBR system plus many other mods including intake runners, these put peak torque on 5th gen up from 8500rpm to 9500rpm. These have 36mm id headers ! It's a formula based on cylinder volume and exhaust primaries... as you well know, soooooo many other factors come into play for an individual engine max torque rpm. It is formula from Summit Racing used for calculating what size primary to use to reach your target torque max rpm not what your engines torque peak will be... these numbers are the max rpm your highest torque could be for that size primary and displacement. I presented them for comparative purposes only not for predictive values. Rush, thats understandable from Tyga's side of things. Considering this, What will be the exit pipe location? 6th gen, 5th Gen or rc51? My only concern would be that the headers could be installed on a 6th gen with under tail exhaust ( I have no issues making a custom mid pipe or adapters made) as long as the exit location is not in outerspace lol Any ideas on timeline and cost? Tristan Exit location will be stock discharge location for the 5th & 6th gens... info on configuration & cost should all be in post #1, timeline is being determined as we speak and figure out technical details like the current primary size discussion. ... I have an original,TBR system .... These have 36mm id headers ! Really, up to this point I thought the TBR headers were the same as the RC45 at 35 mm ID. Please confirm because 36mm is an option on the table with current tooling. ...my two brothers header ... Hey Man, little help please... Please confirm your TBR primary ID dimension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aimbot9000 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I'm in for a set any spec will be better then the stock y2k pipes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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