No 2015 Vfr 1200?

[CandyRedRC46]

My two cents about why the vfr1200 flopped:

All the hype that we were going to get a v5 vfr1000.

All the hope that they were going to take a gen 6 and put it on a diet (like they did with the 2007 cbr600rr and the 2008 cbr1000rr), finally give us a fully adjustable USD suspension with big radial brakes (they came close here) and just add a dew cc's and HP and torque, but the added power and cc's and decently modern suspension/brakes that we wanted came with an extra 60 pounds, shaft drive, reduced fuel capacity, even worse mapping (1st and 2nd gear power restriction) and a wimpy exhaust note.

This was the nail in the coffin:

What I loved about my sixth gen:

The small block Chevy exhaust note.

What I didn't love about my 6th gen:

The heavy curb weight.

What the 7th gen brought to the table:

An extra 60 pounds on an already over weight bike.

An exhaust note that sounds like a 50cc chain saw.

Honda just reinforced what I didn't like and took away what I loved. I know that the vfr1200 is a great bike, but I seriously cannot wake up to chain saws every day.

[iamzombie]

My two cents about why the vfr1200 flopped:

All the hype that we were going to get a v5 vfr1000.

All the hope that they were going to take a gen 6 and put it on a diet (like they did with the 2007 cbr600rr and the 2008 cbr1000rr), finally give us a fully adjustable USD suspension with big radial brakes (they came close here) and just add a dew cc's and HP and torque, but the added power and cc's and decently modern suspension/brakes that we wanted came with an extra 60 pounds, shaft drive, reduced fuel capacity, even worse mapping (1st and 2nd gear power restriction) and a wimpy exhaust note.

This was the nail in the coffin:

What I loved about my sixth gen:

The small block Chevy exhaust note.

What I didn't love about my 6th gen:

The heavy curb weight.

What the 7th gen brought to the table:

An extra 60 pounds on an already over weight bike.

An exhaust note that sounds like a 50cc chain saw.

Honda just reinforced what I didn't like and took away what I loved. I know that the vfr1200 is a great bike, but I seriously cannot wake up to chain saws every day.

At least it's not just me, lol.

Your post pretty much sums up the VFR12 for me. I went for a nice ride on the weekend down a stretch of road I loved pushing my R1 through and did that same route on the VFR. I don't know if it was the extra weight of the VFR or different tires or what, but I constantly felt like the bike was going to push wide if I went anywhere near the speeds I usually travel that stretch of road at.

It was the final nail in the coffin for the VFR for me... It went up for sale later that afternoon :/

[DaveVXR8]

It's all about personal taste, I love my VFR12, i bought it after my Kawasaki Z1000SX (Ninja 1000 elsewhere) got pinched and wanted something different.

I've had it a year now and it hasn't let me down at all. But...i don't seem to have the affinity for the way i did the SX and i can't put my finger on it. I test rode the new SX last week and it just adds (to me) something which isn't there for me on the VFR. It seems to to tell out in sales figures in the UK. I think if Kawasaki made the SX a shaft drive they could be on to a near perfect bike.

As for me, i think i am going to sell the VFR12 and go back to the Kawasaki, i need that zing back.

[CandyRedRC46]

If they had made the same bike with better sound and chain drive, I would pull the trigger on one.

[satariel]

As I said before, Honda should name this model V1200F and ex/current owners of the older brother would probably evaluate it in a different manner.

I rode/own a few disappointing bikes too - vfr800 is a completely waste of time and money for example if you ask me - that's why I bought something different.

If they had made the same bike with better sound and chain drive, I would pull the trigger on one.

Jump on ZX1000SX - this is exactly what are you looking for.

[iamzombie]

If they had made the same bike with better sound and chain drive, I would pull the trigger on one.

Agreed. I like the looks, the comfort isn't bad, but it doesn't excite me at all. I don't even mind the shaft drive, since it keeps the rear wheel so much cleaner than a chain :)

For me a bike isn't a primary method of transportation, it's a way to enjoy myself, and I just don't enjoy it as much as my R1.

[CandyRedRC46]

As I said before, Honda should name this model V1200F and ex/current owners of the older brother would probably evaluate it in a different manner.

I rode/own a few disappointing bikes too - vfr800 is a completely waste of time and money for example if you ask me - that's why I bought something different.

If they had made the same bike with better sound and chain drive, I would pull the trigger on one.

Jump on ZX1000SX - this is exactly what are you looking for.

Lol no, I want a v4, with a proper v4 exhaust note. There is a million bikes out there with bland exhaust notes and any power/suspension/weight configuration that your heart desires.

[satariel]

There is a million bikes out there with bland exhaust notes and any power/suspension/weight configuration that your heart desires.

Of course! As simple as that is.

What I do not understand is to post on the forum of "the bike" owners and telling how bad it is haha

Like I/they/we would ever care LOL

[WGREGT]

the 1200 didn't sell in the USA because our economy is in the crapper

Don't tell the auto manufacturers that. They seem to be doing quite well the last couple of years.

Automobiles are more of a requirement here. Motorcycles are a luxury item, much like a boat, jetski, 4wheeler, etc. They are pleasure vehicles so not really comparable to automobiles in the US.

Not here in CA. Many of my rider friends only have a bike...no car.

[WGREGT]

My two cents about why the vfr1200 flopped:

All the hype that we were going to get a v5 vfr1000.

All the hope that they were going to take a gen 6 and put it on a diet (like they did with the 2007 cbr600rr and the 2008 cbr1000rr), finally give us a fully adjustable USD suspension with big radial brakes (they came close here) and just add a dew cc's and HP and torque, but the added power and cc's and decently modern suspension/brakes that we wanted came with an extra 60 pounds, shaft drive, reduced fuel capacity, even worse mapping (1st and 2nd gear power restriction) and a wimpy exhaust note.

This was the nail in the coffin:

What I loved about my sixth gen:

The small block Chevy exhaust note.

What I didn't love about my 6th gen:

The heavy curb weight.

What the 7th gen brought to the table:

An extra 60 pounds on an already over weight bike.

An exhaust note that sounds like a 50cc chain saw.

Honda just reinforced what I didn't like and took away what I loved. I know that the vfr1200 is a great bike, but I seriously cannot wake up to chain saws every day.

Does anyone make a pipe for this bike? I don't own one, but I see a lot of complaints that could be fixed with an aftermarket pipe...no?

[marriedman]

No aftermarket pipe will make the 1200 sound anywhere as good as the 800's. The engine is just too different. I had a 2 Bros installed and now I have a DAM installed. Still sounds like a fart popper, but it is a little better than stock. But I still stand behind what I said before, everything else about this bike is so much better than my old 800's that I can forgive the exhaust sound. If the 1200 had GDC and had the exhaust note of the 800, I'd marry the damned thing!

I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't like the bike though, there is a bike for every butt out there. This one is for me, the guys who don't like it will find one eventually.

[anbark22]

As I said before, Honda should name this model V1200F and ex/current owners of the older brother would probably evaluate it in a different manner.

I rode/own a few disappointing bikes too - vfr800 is a completely waste of time and money for example if you ask me - that's why I bought something different.

If they had made the same bike with better sound and chain drive, I would pull the trigger on one.

Jump on ZX1000SX - this is exactly what are you looking for.

Lol no, I want a v4, with a proper v4 exhaust note. There is a million bikes out there with bland exhaust notes and any power/suspension/weight configuration that your heart desires.

What about the Aprillia. That's a v4 with chain.

[CandyRedRC46]

Yup there's that and The cross plane R1, but now we're talking race replicas

[luvtoleanit]

My two cents about why the vfr1200 flopped:

All the hype that we were going to get a v5 vfr1000.

All the hope that they were going to take a gen 6 and put it on a diet (like they did with the 2007 cbr600rr and the 2008 cbr1000rr), finally give us a fully adjustable USD suspension with big radial brakes (they came close here) and just add a dew cc's and HP and torque, but the added power and cc's and decently modern suspension/brakes that we wanted came with an extra 60 pounds, shaft drive, reduced fuel capacity, even worse mapping (1st and 2nd gear power restriction) and a wimpy exhaust note.

This was the nail in the coffin:

What I loved about my sixth gen:

The small block Chevy exhaust note.

What I didn't love about my 6th gen:

The heavy curb weight.

What the 7th gen brought to the table:

An extra 60 pounds on an already over weight bike.

An exhaust note that sounds like a 50cc chain saw.

Honda just reinforced what I didn't like and took away what I loved. I know that the vfr1200 is a great bike, but I seriously cannot wake up to chain saws every day.

At least it's not just me, lol.

Your post pretty much sums up the VFR12 for me. I went for a nice ride on the weekend down a stretch of road I loved pushing my R1 through and did that same route on the VFR. I don't know if it was the extra weight of the VFR or different tires or what, but I constantly felt like the bike was going to push wide if I went anywhere near the speeds I usually travel that stretch of road at.

It was the final nail in the coffin for the VFR for me... It went up for sale later that afternoon :/

Did you ever adjust the suspension?

Yup there's that and The cross plane R1, but now we're talking race replicas

Not really. The '09-14 R1 is a GT literbike, if there is a term. Like a few of the GSXR1000's, pretty comfortable for a literbike.

Now the new '15 R1 is definitely a race replica. The previous one (which I own) was designed as a road bike, new one was designed as a race bike.

[iamzombie]

I did adjust the suspension prior to my ride on Saturday, I didn't find the rear stability was very good at speed in the twisties, the back end constantly felt like it was pushing wide.

All of this could be fixed with money and mods, I'm sure. But my R1 in it's current form is closer to what I want. The only thing it is missing is comfort, and I've now discovered I don't value comfort as much as I thought I did when I bought the VFR.

If I can't sell it, maybe I'll put the money into it once it's paid for, as it is, I'll hold onto it and license it for my long trip this summer, but until then it's going into the garage and the R1 is going back on the road :P

[Volfy]

Proper V4 exhaust note? Really?! Like 90 degree V4 with 180 degree crank is how God intended it to be.

Truth is... it's just what you got used to. I never owned a 6th Gen or earlier, and my 15 yr hiatus ended just as VFR1200 and RSV4 were introduced. To me, the narrow angle V4 *is* the proper V4 exhaust note. The 90 degree V4 just sounds old school to me, but still way better than the Harley potato potato that vast majority of US riders love above all else. Then again, I'm not much of a fan of Detroit V8 rumble, either.

Like so many LP lovers who swear by the *warm* sound... which most of us who grew up listening to digital understood as distortion. ;) But, hey, who am I to argue? Whatever tickles your cochlea, man.

One engine sounds better to you? Yeah... it's what you are used to.

[satariel]

[spud786]

I believe I know exactly why this motorcycle is not a "hot cake" in US...

Ok, I'll bite...why? I'm sure we all have an opinion on this one...:-)

Its not marketing, the only ones who would buy it are VFR'ers, and the majority already know what they want and the 1200 isn't it.

[luvtoleanit]

I believe I know exactly why this motorcycle is not a "hot cake" in US...

Ok, I'll bite...why? I'm sure we all have an opinion on this one...:-)

Its not marketing, the only ones who would buy it are VFR'ers, and the majority already know what they want and the 1200 isn't it.

my previous VFR was a '98 and my 1200 is better than it in every way. Real forks, better suspension, better handling, much better brakes, way more HP and TQ. I don't have to downshift two gears to get moving.

Honda gives you the 800 back and yet the whining still commences.

[Volfy]

VFR1200 doesn't sell well for the same reason the K1300S doesn't. The real problem is that Honda benchmarked the wrong BMW... if the goal was sales volume. Had they set their sights on the RT instead, the result might have been much more popular. FWIW, K1300S sales has been just about as slow as VFR1200, and rumors have been running rampant for the past several yrs, particularly since the intro of the K1600, that BMW will discontinue the open-class inline4. Well, 2015 looks to be the last yr for the K1300S. Between the K1600GT, R1200RS, and S1000XR, BMW thinks they got the sport touring spectrum pretty much covered, without the 1300.

Design-wise, both VFR1200 and K1300S are excellent examples of open-class sportbikes that tour reasonably well. I may eventually end up with one of each in my garage. Those of us who like these are also drawn to chain-drive bikes like ZX14R and Sprint ST/GT. Unfortunately, the formula just isn't what the majority of the sport touring buyer want.

To some degree, I actually agree with the die-hard VFR sour grapes. I think a 500 lbs chain-drive VFR1000 would have been a fantastic replacement for VFR800. It would eat the Ninja 1000 for lunch. I wouldn't mind one parked next to my VFR1200. Would it be a worthy replacement for VFR1200? No more than the 1200 was for the 800.

[MadScientist]

Proper V4 exhaust note? Really?! Like 90 degree V4 with 180 degree crank is how God intended it to be.

Truth is... it's just what you got used to. I never owned a 6th Gen or earlier, and my 15 yr hiatus ended just as VFR1200 and RSV4 were introduced. To me, the narrow angle V4 *is* the proper V4 exhaust note. The 90 degree V4 just sounds old school to me, but still way better than the Harley potato potato that vast majority of US riders love above all else. Then again, I'm not much of a fan of Detroit V8 rumble, either.

Like so many LP lovers who swear by the *warm* sound... which most of us who grew up listening to digital understood as distortion. ;) But, hey, who am I to argue? Whatever tickles your cochlea, man.

One engine sounds better to you? Yeah... it's what you are used to.

Exhaust note is by no means a deal breaker for me. I enjoy the sounds of all engines, my 600, VW TDI, VFR800, the string trimmer... If I had to pick a favorite though, it would be the duc DS1000.

Also agree about the VFR1000 vs Ninja 1000, but the same reason that prevents me from buying the Ninja or the VFR12 is that I think they are ugly. Since attraction to certain motorcycles can be described as passionate or irrational or irrationally passionate... it has to check all the boxes. Everything about the VFR12 appeals to me (the K13S too for that matter) except for the looks. I can deal with the 50 extra lbs given the other upgrades, but I wouldn't want to look at it in my garage. I'm not knocking anyone who likes the looks of the VFR12, just not my thing. If Honda decided to give the plastics a makeover, I might be interested, I think that they should have restyled it once before killing it.

[CandyRedRC46]

FWIW, I think the 90* V4 with 180 crank IS exactly how god intended an engine to be built ;)

None of this 76* V4 with split pin cranks and counter balancer bs, just to make it almost as smooth as a 90* V4, that just winds up sounding like an electric blender

Jokes aside I can appreciate how compact, yet powerful it is, but its not my cup of tea...

[lshark]

the 1200 doesn't have counter balancers

[swimmer]

As I said before, Honda should name this model V1200F and ex/current owners of the older brother would probably evaluate it in a different manner.

I rode/own a few disappointing bikes too - vfr800 is a completely waste of time and money for example if you ask me - that's why I bought something different.

If they had made the same bike with better sound and chain drive, I would pull the trigger on one.

Jump on ZX1000SX - this is exactly what are you looking for.

Lol no, I want a v4, with a proper v4 exhaust note.

Does the RC213V sound like a proper V4?

[Volfy]

If we go by the premise that the Almighty also created the laws of physics, I doubt He favors the 90deg V4.

90deg V4 with 180deg crank might have an even firing order, but the configuration suffer from rocking couple (as a result of plane imbalance), which tend to yield vibration in the middle of the RPM range. This problem gets worse as the engine displacement gets larger, not to mention the wider Vee-angle grows in size faster with increasing CC's, compared to inline or narrow-angle V engines. Ducati's 90deg twin also suffers from this packaging problem, which is principally why Ducati went to a very over-square cylinder on the Panigale to reduce overall engine length with the ever increasing displacement.

In contrast, narrow angle V4s like the VFR1200 and RSV4 enjoys greater packaging efficiency, which means they can be made smaller, lighter and more rigid for a given displacement size. The uneven firing order, while difficult to understand and visualize, nonetheless reduces the rocking couple effect, which means less rocking vibration over a larger RPM band, where the engine is likely used for road riding.

In all reality, had Honda kept the 90deg Vee-angle for the VFR1200, it would have been even porkier and bulkier. One only needs to look at Yamaha's montrous VMax's, Suzuki's GV1400 Cavacade, or even Honda's own Magna V65 to see just how space inefficient large 90deg V4s are. Favored by the Greek God of Large Rotating Devices, perhaps.