No 2015 Vfr 1200?

[lshark]

the RC213V is a 90 deg

i don't mind how my 1200 sounds....it doesn't sound like my Interceptor, but that's ok....i have the Akro with the silencer in ....when i'm riding it, the sound of it is the last thing on my mind....usually have some Zeppelin cranking on my Scala anyway

[lshark]

just for the hell of it..why not.......beautiful bike..that thing is a work of art

[Volfy]

The RC213V is a 90deg V4 tweaked to the extreme for racing application. See here for a quick analysis, comparing to Ducati's oft-criticized 90deg V4 effort:

http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/08/01/technical-analysis-90-degree-v-four-engine-motogp-racing-technology/

The tricks Honda pulled on the RC213V, such as very short conn rod, are unlikely to be scalable to even larger displacement. Nor are they easy to adopt to production motorcycles, where longevity is of far greater importance.

[lshark]

so if the early generations of VFRs been a 76 deg design, would we all be whining about the sound of that new 90 deg V4 ???

[whitelightning]

Not sure how the 8th gen is selling but people complain about the MSRP on that as well, on top of the usual rants about VTEC. I guess we'll see if that stays in the line up.

I'm sorry, but anyone that still complains about the VTEC transition doesn't know how to ride and needs a scooter. Get off that dead horse and learn how to deal with it, or get another bike..... Come ride at TMAC if you don't agree, I'll see you there... Next complaint.

[swimmer]

Not sure how the 8th gen is selling but people complain about the MSRP on that as well, on top of the usual rants about VTEC. I guess we'll see if that stays in the line up.

I'm sorry, but anyone that still complains about the VTEC transition doesn't know how to ride and needs a scooter. Get off that dead horse and learn how to deal with it, or get another bike..... Come ride at TMAC if you don't agree, I'll see you there... Next complaint.

I had a 6th gen. No issues at all with vtec.

[Volfy]

FWIW, here's a in-depth analysis of Aprilia's 65deg RSV4 engine: http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/07/17/tech-analysis-aprilia-rsv4-factory-engine/

Unlike Ducati (or Honda, to some degree with their 90deg V4), Aprilia has no historical baggage to carry regarding engine configuration, so they were free to choose the optimum design that best achieve their performance goals:

In the end, the V-Four came out on top by offering the best compromise. It had the potential to be narrower than both the inline-Three and Four, and much more compact, lengthwise, than the 90-degree V-Four that was proposed only as a theoretical comparison but never considered a viable option by Aprilia’s technical team.

In reality, a narrow V-Four would be more balanced than an inline-Three in both primary and secondary order; and though it would be less balanced than an inline-Four in primary order, a very small balancing shaft could cancel any resultant vibrations. A narrow V-Four also is slightly less balanced than an inline-Four in secondary order, but only by a negligible factor; besides, the perceived vibrations would not be any more disturbing than those of an inline-Four.

Another major advantage of the narrow-angle V-Four concept was that it could be harnessed in a frame dimensionally similar to that of the world-championship-winning Aprilia 250 GP racer. This was a very positive point on which to capitalize, since the Aprilia 250 was always regarded as the best-handling bike in its class.

To my ears, the RSV4 exhaust note sounds even better than that of VFR1200, particularly at full song. If I still ride litre sports, the RSV4 RF would be my choice, no question. And if ape ever see fit to put that narrow angle V4 in a sport touring chassis, it might possibly squeeze the VFR1200 out of my garage.

I suspect Aprilia design decisions are likely why Honda switched to narrow angle on Gen7... and also why they brought back the VFR800 engine pretty much as is in Gen8. I doubt they were deaf to the cries of the faithful for a 1000cc VFR, but the design difficulties are just too great for a production version. I would love to see Honda prove me - and ape engineers - wrong, but IMO the most likely 1000cc 90deg V4 sportbike is a uber-expensive homologation version if they ever decide to get into SBK Racing with the RC213V.

[satariel]

Cool but V engine angle has nothing to do with the sound that exhaust produce. The crankshaft rod journal arrangement has...

[Volfy]

Cool but V engine angle has nothing to do with the sound that exhaust produce. The crankshaft rod journal arrangement has...

Actually... strictly speaking, the exhaust note is dictated by the firing order and spacing.

But, of course, firing order/spacing depends on both the crankshaft arrangement and cyl config. You can have some crankshaft variation per a given cylinder configuration. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big-bang_firing_order But the variations are very limited, in order to minimize primary and secondary vibrations.

[satariel]

Cool but V engine angle has nothing to do with the sound that exhaust produce. The crankshaft rod journal arrangement has...

Actually... strictly speaking, the exhaust note is dictated by the firing order and spacing.

But, of course, firing order/spacing depends on both the crankshaft arrangement and cyl config. You can have some crankshaft variation per a given cylinder configuration (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big-bang_firing_order). But the variations are very limited, in order to minimize primary and secondary vibrations.

Journal spacing - arranging? Same term.

If you want to be very scientific here: the exhaust noise is a result of combustion and the frequency/tone is a result of combined exhaust and intake

pulses or waves as you prefer. The bigger journal spacing is then more irregularity you have - pulses are farther apart in time.

You can modulate/alter the firing order - some engines can be ignited with 2 or more sequences - however, you cant change the crank journal arrange.

90/90 degree V4 crank is like combining two boxer engines - you basically have "boom boom" multiplied by two and shifted in phase between. This creates a "V8 like rumble."

90/28 degree V4 crank is more like v10 - the idea is to divide the 360 into equal parts to minimize vibrations and get rid of the balancer shaft. This creates a "V10 like howl".

Both are unique - both sounds superb to me. I own both.

Time to accept that there will be no more rumble anti eco screamers - compact lightweight yet powerful eco units is what you get for the rest of the combustion era times.

[Volfy]

Messed up on that URL in my previous post. Here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big-bang_firing_order

Not sure what you mean by 90/90 and 90/28 cranks. As the above article listed, here are the typical 90deg V4 crank configs:

Crank ignition timing Firing pulse example

180deg 180-90-180-270 1-0-1-1-0-1-0-0 VFR800

70deg 90-200-90-340 1-1-0-1-1-0-0-0 Desmosedici RR

360deg 90-270-90-270 1-1-0-0-1-1-0-0 VF/RC30/RC45

CrossPlane 180-90-180-270 1-0-1-1-0-1-0-0 R-1

The "firing pulse" is really what given an engine exhaust its signature cadence. Notice R1 actually has the exactly same ignition timing and firing pulse as VFR800, so I don't understand why VFR diehards don't go buy that lovely R1, instead of bitching about VFR1200 having lousy exhaust note.

[satariel]

Classic V4 crankshaft: 2 oposite rod journals, 180 degree spacing - 1,3 con rod 180 degree rotation and con rod 2,4 for example. Common journal for two rods.

VFR1200 crankshaft: 90' rotation - con rod 1, 28' rotation - con rod 2, 90' rotation - con rod 3 and so on...more less. By your numbering: 0-28-180-28,

Plus odd firing order: 1-2-4-3

Good read...but again thread hijacked LOL

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2009/july/jul0909-honda-v4-200bhp-engine-tech/

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/popular/honda-vfr-1200-v4-motor-patent-details-video/

Messed up on that URL in my previous post. Here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big-bang_firing_order

Not sure what you mean by 90/90 and 90/28 cranks. As the above article listed, here are the typical 90deg V4 crank configs:

Crank ignition timing Firing pulse example

180deg 180-90-180-270 1-0-1-1-0-1-0-0 VFR800

70deg 90-200-90-340 1-1-0-1-1-0-0-0 Desmosedici RR

360deg 90-270-90-270 1-1-0-0-1-1-0-0 VF/RC30/RC45

CrossPlane 180-90-180-270 1-0-1-1-0-1-0-0 R-1

The "firing pulse" is really what given an engine exhaust its signature cadence. Notice VFR800 actually has the exactly same ignition timing and firing pulse as VFR800, so I don't understand why VFR diehards don't go buy that lovely R1, instead of bitching about VFR1200 having lousy exhaust note.

VFR800 has the same pulse as VFR800?

[iamzombie]

I know sound is completely objective, but I can't imagine anyone hearing a VFR 1200 and saying it sounds "superb". I've not once had anyone compliment the engine note of my VFR1200, but several people have ridiculed it.

[satariel]

I know sound is completely objective, but I can't imagine anyone hearing a VFR 1200 and saying it sounds "superb". I've not once had anyone compliment the engine note of my VFR1200, but several people have ridiculed it.

Yeah yeah we know, sell it and go somewhere else...

[Volfy]

VFR800 has the same pulse as VFR800?

You can't read as well as I can't write? :tongue2:

lol...thanks for the catch. You know I listed the R1 up there with all the V4s for a reason.

btw, this vid illustrates the R1/VFR800 firing order cadence very well: https://youtu.be/Myfp2sUducE

[satariel]

Of course I knew but I couldn't resist

Yes, I know how it works - first inline 4 which sounds like a v4. This proves how cylinder arrangement is not so important these days.

Quite often you can read here:

I wanna V4 cuz it sounds awesome! No you want a 90/180" crank that sounds awesome. Why V4? Because someone had this idea one day

and the others follow...well guess what, those days are over. Get used to!

[Volfy]

I know sound is completely objective, but I can't imagine anyone hearing a VFR 1200 and saying it sounds "superb". I've not once had anyone compliment the engine note of my VFR1200, but several people have ridiculed it.

As I said before, it is what you get used to. VFR1200 is NOT a "big bang" sound. Then again, neither is the Triumph triple, which has one of my all-time favorite exhaust noise. The trailing throttle "triple burble" is to die for.

But if you ask most folks - especially the non-moto public - the VFR1200, RSV4, triple all probably sound bland. Whereas the "big bang" motors, with the distinctive cadence "sounds" more like what they remember of a motorcycle growing up. Same reason most folks like the Detroit V8 rumble and dislike the shrieking Formula One V8. Me? I'm just the opposite. The F1 engine sounds like technology and R&D. That, I like.

[iamzombie]

I know sound is completely objective, but I can't imagine anyone hearing a VFR 1200 and saying it sounds "superb". I've not once had anyone compliment the engine note of my VFR1200, but several people have ridiculed it.

Yeah yeah we know, sell it and go somewhere else...

Great community you guys have here.

How about you buy my bike and I'll leave?

[Beck]

Enough of this silly exhaust note pissing match, why not just admit the VFR lost a big thing when GDC was replaced by timing chains and those evil noisy tensioners....

[Volfy]

Enough of this silly exhaust note pissing match, why not just admit the VFR lost a big thing when GDC was replaced by timing chains and those evil noisy tensioners....

What for? So we can stop kicking a freshly dead horse and kick a pile of horse ash so dead the statue of limitation has expired and CSI Miami won't even touch.

[lshark]

i was just out enjoying the sound of my 28deg crank 75 deg V4

[satariel]

I know sound is completely objective, but I can't imagine anyone hearing a VFR 1200 and saying it sounds "superb". I've not once had anyone compliment the engine note of my VFR1200, but several people have ridiculed it.

Yeah yeah we know, sell it and go somewhere else...

Great community you guys have here.

How about you buy my bike and I'll leave?

What do you expect mate? You are only complaining and complaining and keep saying this is a shit bike and you lost your money.

Well I don't give a shit and honestly this is starting to irritate me, you are adult and you need to deal with it yourself...

[weven]

Well it may sound like a Bull farting through a comb, but with one of these, it would put a horn on a jelly fish at 9500 rpm.

[hvfrdave]

Personally, I could not care less about the sound, of the VFR1200 V4, because the engine is a cracker, loads of torque, from as little as 3,000revs, you just don't need to rev the tits of it, its a gem.

[arrow]

I know sound is completely objective, but I can't imagine anyone hearing a VFR 1200 and saying it sounds "superb". I've not once had anyone compliment the engine note of my VFR1200, but several people have ridiculed it.

Yeah yeah we know, sell it and go somewhere else...

Great community you guys have here.

How about you buy my bike and I'll leave?

Don't mind him, he gets incredibly angry whenever someone criticizes the 1200 :-D ...

I think you'll come to love the 1200's sound in time, a slip-on improves it IMHO (I have a carbon Akropovic). I think it sounds gruff, some of my friend's love it, they love hear me blip the throttle on the downshifts. "Like MotoGP" they say...