Vfr1200 2015

[Volfy]

how did this post grew into all this bs above? (in the nice possible way)

I realize that winter is around the corner but c'mon.......

Why... because it is the VFR1200 - the bike that everybody loves to hate.

[Skids]

Any word on model changes for the 2015 model or is it just colour changes?

I can't find anything on t'interweb.

[arrow]

I don't think calling people who criticise as haters is fair. A lot of those people (myself included) own a VFR1200F. I modified my suspension and engine, installed helibars and I enjoy it immensely. I feel Honda should do more to address its shortcomings (and which bike doesn't have them) and keep it as a viable alternative to all the other STs, that's all....

[BiKenG]

You lot have an extraordinary ability to get upset at things that are explained reasonably or even slightly tongue-in-cheek and in good humour. Who do I think I am? Just someone who has spent almost 50 years on motorcycles and some of that working for Honda, so I have a pretty good idea of how they think. I'm not defending their choice of suspension, just pointing out why they made that decision. If you don't like it, moan to them. I'm only the messenger and no longer interested.

As for the vitriol with which so many of you have responded to my posts, well, i'm sorry you all feel like that and am at a loss to understand why. I've been vilified for bringing a certain technical aspect of the bike to everyone's attention, ridiculed and basically called a liar in the process yet ultimately proved to be completely right, both factually and in my suppositions. Has anyone thought to apologise? No, not a peep. Now, I'm simply pointing out why Honda have taken this particular course of action with the VFR1200's suspension and suddenly I'm satan.

I am just undertaking a project to convert a VFR1200 into something rather different and I foolishly believed a sharing of info and ideas with others here would be both beneficial and welcome. Obviously not.

Sorry to have to end it like this, but I'm not prepared to put up with this shit any longer. I don't have the time, nor any longer the inclination to defend myself against the sheer ignorance and unpleasantness being exhibited here. Your loss.

Sayonara

[HighwayStar2009]

BiKenG, I agree with you 100%, the 1200 must be viewed from "The Company's" motive. Honda's flagship bike is the CBR!

[Skids]

BiKenG - it sounds from your post that this has happened before - excuse me but I hadn't witnessed it if it had happened.

I'm also unaware if there is any history between certain members, but whatever, it seems a shame to leave when it sounds like you have a lot to offer.

I am at the start of the process of purchasing a 1200 and will be asking some questions when I know what I want to ask and an informed opinion is always preferable.

Please reconsider.

[f3racer]

I never had an issue with the dude even though I disagreed with some of his points. He did contradict himself a few times.

I can also see cornercarver's point, although he was a little abrasive in his method of making said point. I agree and disagree with both of them.

Let's keep the peace boys.

[Switchblade]

Too bad Honda won't produce a liter capacity VFR with chain drive that would like win over buyers of both.

I just don't get this. If you want a chain and less power, get the 800. It's quick enough. More capacity means higher fuel consumption. If you do want more performance, what's wrong with the 1200? It's a simply brilliant bike and no greasy mess all over the back wheel. If you want a pillion capable sport tourer what more do you need? And don't moan about tank range. Most riders, let alone pillions, don't want to go over 200 miles without getting off for a stretch. It seems to me that none of the common arguments against the 1200 have any real validity and in any case could be similarly applied to almost any bike. I just don't see why there's so much complaining about the VFR1200.

Who said he wanted less power? Your straw man argument is already failing. And no an 800 is not quick enough for me (or many others) when sport riding solo nor is it near powerful enough for me when sport-touring 2 up. Shedding 100 lbs and adding the missing 55-60 hp from the 1200 (which could be easily accomplished in a V4-1000c configuration) would probably be the ideal bike that SPORT touring mount riders have been asking for.

Don't hand me your tripe about not needing more than the 1200 offers for a pillion capable sport TOURING rig either. I am going to save most of the rebuttal for the ride report that I am working on but I can tell you a few of the 1200's foibles after spending 10 days 2 up on it through Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland and back to Germany. Over 3,000 km on it has helped me decide whether I can live with this bikes unique set of compromises better or worse than any of the other dozen V4's I have or have owned.

Just a point in case, if you can get anywhere within 15% of 200 miles from a tank of petrol in SPIRITED 2 up riding or riding not to get ran over on the Autostrada I will kiss your ass and give you 30 minutes to draw crowd of cell-camera equipped witnesses.

lol, guilty, just wished the 1000RR was a V4

Couldn't agree more, but that is an ENTIRELY different subject.

Thanks guys.

I think honestly this bike should stay a 1200, but make it chain drive for 2 reasons. Loose a little weight and allow some gearing changes. Then improve the suspension. It leaves much to be desired. I'm not saying make it some crazy deal but a set of 43mm with compression damping and a 1.0 spring for the front and ad compression for the rear.

Making it chain drive wouldn't make it feel much lighter as the weight is low down and why do you want all that mess. Shaft is one of the big plus points for me. I have a chain driven sports bike but that's not what the VFR1200 is for and IMO shaft is absolutely right for it.

Regarding suspension, the VFR1200 of course has compression and rebound damping at both ends - but you knew that, right? It's just not as adjustable as you'd like? So far I find the suspension excellent, but doesn't mean I don't want to have Ohlins. I just love that gold finish.

So you value the Ohlins for the gold finish...likely so others notice that you have an Ohlins rather than any real world advancement over a non adjustable unit?

the vfr1200 does not have compression and rebound damping at both ends. only preload and rebound. a UK only thing?

I don't wish to start an argument here, but every bike will have compression and rebound damping, otherwise it would simply bounce. The fact you cannot see any adjusters for either of these just means exactly that - there are no adjusters. It does NOT mean there is no damping. I thought you understood that.

So the VFR1200 is simply not designed with fully adjustable suspension, but take comfort in the fact that it most certainly does have damping, in both directions and at both ends. Having fully adjustable suspension is in truth overrated and often causes more problems as so few people actually know how to set it up, so they leave it on the factory settings. In which case, it might as well not be adjustable and thereby cheaper.

This bolded point along with your point below tell us much about you...

Ok you got me. Yes I understand it has it. What I mean is adjustability. I want to be able to adjust the preload, rebound, and compression at both ends.

To me its only starting an argument if you insult me. I enjoy intelligent discussion and debate.

We will have agree to disagree on whether it is overrated or not.

Well I don't completely disagree with you. I do prefer to have fully adjustable suspension, but I put in the time and effort to get it all set up as I like. However, I have to say that I don't think the VFR1200 is the sort of bike that requires that level of control. It's just not that sort of bike so I can quite understand why Honda have done what they have done.

You could always buy the special customised Ohlins from www.kainzinger.com/. They use the latest 30mm cartridge forks with custom machined bottom axle 'knuckles' to accept the VFR's big calipers. They also put together custom TTX shocks for the rear. That'll give you all the adjustability you need - at a cost of course.

You believe yourself to be one of the few VFR aficionados capable of deciphering the arcane knowledge required to set their bikes suspension up for the way they ride...You are the "intelligentsia" and you need to keep the rest of us braying sheep in our place.

BikenG, f3racer, was just making a point, that you cannot adjust compression front or rear, and to think the VFR1200 is suppose to be Honda's flagship model, I'm sorry but it should. Honda still could and should have compression adjustment, Honda could of printed a base setting for the suspension, like they have at present, even though it is not correct. The front fork set-up is a joke, springs far too soft, and the damping is adequate to say the least. The rear shock, spring rate is ok, and the Rebound damping adjustment is a joke. Sorry but the damping in general is a joke.

Well being a flagship model doesn't necessarily mean it has to have fully adjustable suspension. Flagship super bike, well yes, I'd agree with you. Flagship tourer, not so much. The VFR1200 as we know is somewhere in between and so it's not totally clear cut. On the whole I'd say by far the majority of VFR1200 owners will never touch their suspension settings and so fully adjustable would be a waste.

But I have to agree that Honda are probably shortchanging those who understand the VFR's sporting potential. At the end of the day though, it all comes down to cost and this invariably dictates that production suspension is adequate at best. Yes, it could be a lot better, but everyone ends up having to pay for a more expensive bike.

It's a tough call and Honda certainly don't always get it right.

Whether you want to recognize it as such or not the VFR is now and has always been a flagship model for Honda. It is not their flagship touring model (the Goldwing is but of course you knew that) but throughout history Honda has requested a higher price for the VFR than other bikes in its class.

To your second bolded point here, how much more could Honda reasonably ask for the bike? Spoiler alert, I will tell you what I think the bike is worth in my ride report. As the bike is currently priced it should either have the luggage included or fully adjustable Showa suspension.

Why because the VFR1200 is a Sports Tourer, adequate suspension is ok, surely you need more adjustment, ie when you are solo, or 2 up, whether with luggage or not, you need to be able to adjust your suspension settings individually, Spring preload, Compression, and Rebound, but No not in Honda's thoughts.

I think if you believe that anyone will adjust preload AND compression AND rebound, front AND back EVERY time they take a pillion and then back again afterwards, you're living in cloud cuckoo land - in the nicest possible way of course

I know that adjustable suspension is what you want and I'm the same, but you have to be realistic. If only 2% of all owners will ever adjust their suspension, Honda would be daft to saddle the other 98% with more expensive suspension they'd never take advantage of. I made up those numbers just to illustrate the point, but to be sure by far the majority of bike riders either never touch their suspension settings or get it wrong.

As I said before, they always have to make a decision on stuff like this and while they don't always get it right, I do understand their dilemma.

I guess it all depends on how you ride and your riding background.

Every bike I've owned before this was a sportbike. I raced CCS for a bit and I ride kinda hard. So for someone like me adjustability is a must.

For someone who came from maybe a touring bike or an st1300 or something that mainly tours around without any knee dragging type riding in mind then I would assume the vfr suspension is quite adequate.

I can see where you're coming from, but you are definitely in the minority. How few of us really see the VFR1200's sporting potential.

And we are back to your progressive "I know better than you what is good enough for you" attitude. You define yourself as being in the 2% of all VFR riders who would go through the trouble to adjust their suspension properly so that it suits the manner in which they ride (to the best of its limited stock suspension ability) why decrying anyone who disagrees with your "truth" as daft.

Truthfully the VFR1200 suspension is about right for bike that costs around $10k USD new, not for a bike with the asking price 30-40% higher.

Back to the original topic...the 2015 bike looks very large from that angle pictured. F3 Racers 1200 looks to be about 200 lbs lighter than the '15 in the picture on the front page.

It could be the angle but if not it is the graphics as the 1200 has not proven to be very photogenic.

Yeah what he said !!

And for me I am surprised they are still producing it !

[luvtoleanit]

Sayonara

[lshark]

there is talk of a v4 based on the RC213V coming soon

[Volfy]

One thing is for sure... if you are going to be a VFR1200 rider, prepare to grow some thick skin. I have yet to come across a bike that has more vitriol spit at it by non-owners - and owners - alike.

Also... other than those who first bought their 2010 VFR1200 when it first came out, I have not heard of anybody paying much more than US$10k for one. I paid $8k for mine and am extremely happy with what I got for my money. Honda's published MSRP I could care less. Why would I complain about what Honda should or should not have put on the bike? I like, I buy. I no like, I no buy. Or... spend some bucks to make it "I like". It's the same with any bike I've owned.

If and when Honda discontinues the VFR1200, I'm gonna sell my '10 and buy a brand new '12 or later for $10k. That way, I'll have a fresh one that will carry me another good 3-5yrs. Perfect it is not. But it comes closest to my ideal bike than any other.

[CornerCarver]

You lot have an extraordinary ability to get upset at things that are explained reasonably or even slightly tongue-in-cheek and in good humour. Who do I think I am? Just someone who has spent almost 50 years on motorcycles and some of that working for Honda, so I have a pretty good idea of how they think. I'm not defending their choice of suspension, just pointing out why they made that decision. If you don't like it, moan to them. I'm only the messenger and no longer interested.

As for the vitriol with which so many of you have responded to my posts, well, i'm sorry you all feel like that and am at a loss to understand why. I've been vilified for bringing a certain technical aspect of the bike to everyone's attention, ridiculed and basically called a liar in the process yet ultimately proved to be completely right, both factually and in my suppositions. Has anyone thought to apologise? No, not a peep. Now, I'm simply pointing out why Honda have taken this particular course of action with the VFR1200's suspension and suddenly I'm satan.

I am just undertaking a project to convert a VFR1200 into something rather different and I foolishly believed a sharing of info and ideas with others here would be both beneficial and welcome. Obviously not.

Sorry to have to end it like this, but I'm not prepared to put up with this shit any longer. I don't have the time, nor any longer the inclination to defend myself against the sheer ignorance and unpleasantness being exhibited here. Your loss.

Sayonara

I don't know of your past incident on this site but you come out of the gate declaring that your opinion is the only valid opinion that anyone with a brain should have and that none of the common arguments against the VFR1200 as released by Honda have any validity.

You follow that up in this thread by insulting anyone who disagrees.

Then you get your panties in a bunch when your quoted statements are discussed or rebutted..

This thread started with an unflattering picture of a 2015 VFR1200 paint scheme and the question of whether anyone liked or disliked it...by the end of page 2 you started a conversation with a poster who had merely said they wished for a chain driven 1,000 cc VFR by telling them that if they don't like the 1200 to buy the 800 as there are no valid arguments against the 1200.

When presented with some of the areas where the 1200 might be improved upon or where the 800 lacks and where a potential 1000 V4 could be an answer you devolve into insults.

While I would love to read of anything relating to VFR1200 project I don't understand why we should collectively kiss your ass to have that honor or why your opinion is the only one that should be valued or discussed in a thread.

If your arguments can't stand up to a rebuttal or counter then perhaps it should be sayonara.

I hope you stay around and open your mind up to others opinions or perhaps at least respond without the acrimony that you brought to this thread.

Perhaps the humor you thought implied just didn't make the translation to printed word without inflection of tone or body language. It has happened to me before.

[007]

without inflection of tone or body language. It has happened to me before.

Good game!

[mandavdle]

Like trying to settle arguments and differences of opinion via email at work. It almost never seems to work.

[arrow]

I for one didn't think BikeKenG was being rude, but he did dismiss the other arguements a bit too readily. I hope he sticks around. If one thing he actually showed that Honda thinks (he said he had worked there) that the 1200F is already good enough so doesn't need any updates and that a 1000cc chain driven V4 is irrelevant. Honda doesn't feel the need to do because Honda thinks everything's fine with its ST & sportsbike line-up.

The main thing is, if you don't feel you need fully adjustable suspension, less weight, more gizmos, you name it, that's fine. But some people like to ride their VFRs in a more sporting way, and they sometimes wish for these things. Honda's business case for selling VFRS cannot be to people like me where I bought a very low mileage secondhand one, or to those who bought one that's left-over from previous years. They need to generate excitement in the new VFRs so that they can start selling them new to people who never owned V4s; without waiting one or two years before they move out from the showroom floor. That way, people like me might still get newer V4s in the future, albeit secondhand...

[LoopRider]

Currently the VFR1200 is just good enough that I have not traded it. I was hoping and maybe I am holding off for something more than just a revised colour scheme. It would not have taken much for me to uograde to a 2015 VFR1200 if just a two or more of the following things were new features -

- 30 kgs lighter,

- 3 litre bigger tank,

- Bosch brakes and traction that work when on a lean,

- cruise control

[ggathagan]

there is talk of a v4 based on the RC213V coming soon

Just like there was talk of an RC211V-based street bike when MotoGP dropped from 990cc to 800cc and there was talk of an RC212V-based street bike when MotoGP returned to 990cc in 2012.

There is always talk of a street-based version of MotoGP bikes, especially since the move to 4-stroke.

The reality is, it's never going to happen for Honda. Race engines are not built with any longevity and are not mass-produced.

It's too expensive to work out the necessary changes to make such a street bike a reality unless you abandon any hope of a reasonable ROI on the process.

If Honda's top tier sportbikes were all V4's, it'd be a different story.

On the other hand, since the remaining 3 Japanese MotoGP efforts use, or are going to use, inline 4's in both their MotoGP bikes and their sportbikes, some of the engine technology has been brought to their sportbikes.

Yamaha's big bang implementation is the one that first comes to mind.

Ducati's Desmosedici RR is the closest any maker has come to bringing a MotoGP bike to the street.

Compared to the Japanese companies, however, Ducati amounts to a boutique manufacturer.

[Volfy]

Chain drive VFR1000 is about as likely as flux capacitor powered VFR with magna drive.

if you look at Honda's recent intros, none are real "all new" engine and chassis bikes. They are all Taco Bell specials made from off the shelf ingredients.

All new VFR800... dugged out of the grave and sprinkled with mortician's makeup magic dust.

F6B and Valkyrie... Goldwings with tank top and bikini, instead of evening gown.

CTX1300... ST1300 that sold the house and moved to retirement home.

Let's face it, the CBRs need a refresh way more desperately than the VFR1200. I would love to see improvements made to the VFR1200 as much as the next guy. We can argue till we are blue in the face, but the reality is rather bleak. Personally, I am just glad the VFR1200 , as is, is the closest to my ideal ST than any other bike. Modify as i see fit, and ride the crap out of it.

[CornerCarver]

Chain drive VFR1000 is about as likely as flux capacitor powered VFR with magna drive.

if you look at Honda's recent intros, none are real "all new" engine and chassis bikes. They are all Taco Bell specials made from off the shelf ingredients.

All new VFR800... dugged out of the grave and sprinkled with mortician's makeup magic dust.

F6B and Valkyrie... Goldwings with tank top and bikini, instead of evening gown.

CTX1300... ST1300 that sold the house and moved to retirement home.

Let's face it, the CBRs need a refresh way more desperately than the VFR1200. I would love to see improvements made to the VFR1200 as much as the next guy. We can argue till we are blue in the face, but the reality is rather bleak. Personally, I am just glad the VFR1200 , as is, is the closest to my ideal ST than any other bike. Modify as i see fit, and ride the crap out of it.

You are correct. Certainly nothing in the recent past would indicate that Honda has a new model in the wings that is not either a) an all world bike (125cc or 250cc with eyes on the prize of the 1 billion potential buyers in China, India or developing nations) or b) a warmed over rehash of an already developed model.

But historically Honda is generally not prone to get too much sand kicked in its corporate face. And right now, outside of MotoGP Honda is getting their ass kicked. The current CBR battles with the also long in the tooth GSXR for an odd win here or there in WSBK while Kawasaki rules and rolls out the new H2 and H2R to capture some of that WSBK win on Sunday - Sell on Monday magic.

The last time Honda cross bred a race bike with street technology the RC46 inherited the engine block from the RC45 and we are still able to purchase the fruits of that effort 20 years later...I think it is time for something from Honda other than BNG and the show version of Tron's bike.

Sadly, while most are moving from cruisers to ADV bikes Honda releases the CTX1300 (and smaller sibling) and the F6B to the US. I guess that is what we get for becoming a caricature of ourselves and not having a home racing series.

Maybe Wayne Rainey will save Honda in the US with the MotoAmerica series and restore some luster to sport bike sales domestically.

[Auron]

Is the area around the tank maxed out? Is there even room for more fuel of they wanted it? Without widening the tank that is?

[TimC]

I like the new paint scheme. But I also liked the '09 Canadian-only black and white scheme.

I'll likely never own a VFR1200. I just don't need that much hp, especially since I only ride solo. Weight isn't an issue for me, as I'm very heavy anyway, but I don't think I'd want a bike bigger than my 6th gen. until I'm ready to retire (in about 20 years) and do some serious motorcycling touring.