Member Contributer 2thdr Posted August 23, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted August 23, 2013 I would bet there are almost no cases of catastrophic failures of (modern) motorcycle chains that are well maintained and within their expected service life. The key is that one is able to easily inspect a chain routinely (daily if desired). Not so with a shaft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 I would bet there are almost no cases of catastrophic failures of (modern) motorcycle chains that are well maintained and within their expected service life. The key is that one is able to easily inspect a chain routinely (daily if desired). Not so with a shaft... I wouldn't. A rider here locally recently had a brand new chain snap on him no long after installation. He came on the local moto forum asking for advice, and most guessed it was improperly installed master link. Be that as it may, visual inspection doesn't guarantee catch of every fault and potential problem - especially with noobs and the mechanically-not-so-inclined. Shinola happens. That's just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICARA Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 THREE OF MY BIKES ARE SHAFT DRIVEN I HAD A SPARE UNIT FOR MY LTD1100 ENDED UP IN THE DUMPSTER MY BIRD ON THE OTHER HAND NEEDS CONSTANT ADJUSTMENT,REPLACEMENT OF CHAINS DON'T REALLY COMPLAIN ABOUT IT SINCE I LOVE THE BIKE'S POWER NEVER HAD TO SERVICE THE SHAFT ON THE OTHERS BUT I REALLY LIKE THE VFR SINCE IT HAS THE FEEL OF CHAIN SISTEM THE KAWA DOES HAVE A LOT TWISTING WHEN RIDEN HARD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted September 4, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted September 4, 2013 Hello Vicara, Please use UPPER case only at the start of a sentence; it reads a lot more pleasant that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Now, watch all 1200 owners tare into their final drive assemblies. Interesting to see exactly how many VFR1200Fs have been sold... oh, you mean... gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted September 4, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted September 4, 2013 I'm not going to give up on Honda because of my mishap, I had good luck with Honda products in the past such as motorcycles, automobiles and lawnmower. I don't feel like I'm an aggressive rider or have abused my machine but interpretation of abuse various from individuals. I just love the DCT transmission and hope other motorcycle manufactures offer it on their sport, sport touring and sports bikes. I couldn't have timed it better for my bike to break down because I'm currently in the United States dropping off my 2nd daughter for college in Virginia. The bike won't be ready until mid September and while it's at the shop ,will have other services performed such as fork oil, valve clearance. Happy riding everyone with fall weather coming and kids off to school I love shaft drives, never have to worry about oiling and chance of failure on the road (except for my breakdown) or aligning the rear wheel. Unless I have multiple failures in the future, motorcycle with shaft drive will be an important consideration for my next ride. I bolded the last part to bring attention to it. I am not sure how accurate that statement is. I know that the shaft drive on my ST1300 has some very specific maintenance requirements that are both more frequent than I first thought and that have some unique lubrication requirements (a 70% moly grease that is fairly expensive and somewhat difficult to locate IIRC). Now I am sure you meant that you don't have to oil the chain every 1,000 km or 500 if you ride in a dusty or rainy environment, still there is maintenance to be done. That being said, it is quite likely that Honda has changed/improved the maintenance requirements/parts quality from 2003 (when the ST1300 was introduced) to 2010 when the 1200 was released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Driveshaft or chain, they can both fail on our bikes...they are mechanical items that can both have manufacturing defects that can cause them to fail prematurely. which I think is what this thread was all about to start with. The whole discussion about maintenance and the related discussion on how to determine if something looks to be failing is an entirely different discussion IMO Same goes for dirveshaft/chain pissing matches..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt999 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 This is my first post on a VFR forum as until now I have not wanted to complain about the VFR 1200 as I new the problems it had but thought they were only minor. I have just rode back from a 3500 mile trip around europe with my wife pillion. On route back a catastrophic failure of the final shaft drive happened. I was was only doing 5 mph when the back wheel locked up which could of killed us both as we had just come off the German autobahns cruising at 90mph for hours. A bit of history about my bike. Its a 2010 manual VFR 1200. I bought the bike 2 years ago with 8000 miles on and have toured europe 3 times over past 2 years. The bike has now done 23000 miles before this happened. The warranty ran out April 2013 when the bike was 3 year old. I have complained in the past to honda about knocking transmission at slow speeds but nothing was done except update the ECU to 2012 version which may of helps slightly. I knew the rough low speed running would eventually cause damage with all the knocking from the transmission but never expected total failure and has definately finished out biking trips. Has anyone got any advice on what I should do. I am concerned someone else may suffer the same failure at high speed and not be as lucky as us. I am getting my bike taken to Honda tomorrow for inspection but without warranty dont know what will happen or wether honda will admit something is wrong with the design causing the low speed knocking to end up with total failure. If you have a knocking drive on your bike please get it sorted before someone gets hurt. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted September 23, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted September 23, 2013 Paul, I am glad that you and your wife are safe. This is a scary situation indeed, made worse by the fact that this faliure is not preceeded by any symptoms, other than the common to shafts clunk. Please keep us posted on your conversations with Honda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted September 23, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted September 23, 2013 On the dutch (language) vfr forum, a story of a regular shift VFR1200, 2010 with 40,000km (25k miles) where the 6th gear was occasianally jumping out of gear. The dealer told him to keep riding no problem, stomp the pedal it a bit harder, but stay out of 6th. While the dealer would enquire on what this could be. A few weeks ago the bike locked up while he was doing somem 60mph.. Another VFR rider behind him saw the bike step sideways and put down a huge darkie.... they had to manhandle the bike to the side of the road. The gearbox was opened yesterday, a gear fork came loose or broke and jammed the gears.... The dealer now ofcourse denies have said it was ok to keep riding... I will keep yous posted as this story unfolds.... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vfrflanders Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Another (gairbox?) failure reported in the UK "So first day of 14 day tour to Romania and back (via Brno for Moto GP) and the bike expires on the side of the A60.Loss of coolant and then clicking from the gearbox (FD model). It's now at the ADAC tow place in Wittlich whilst we wait to see which Honda dealer can look at it. The nearest dealer in Trier told ADAC that they could 't look at it until Monday!" Rest of the Story: http://www.bikersoracle.com/vfr/forum/showthread.php?t=123989 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Very interested in how Honda say about this (these) failure(s). Do keep us updated. Things like this is one reason da wife won't ride with me, not till the kids leave the nest. No matter how careful you are with riding and doing maitenance, sometimes stuff just happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted September 23, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted September 23, 2013 Scary as mine will pop out of 6th on occasion as more than a few others on here. Not confidence inspiring as I tend to ride my bikes as intended through corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt999 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Well here is your first update. My honda dealer want £60 an hour just to find out whats wrong with the bike. I thought they might have said "really sorry for your problem we will take a look and see what can be done" but no, they want money first. Shaft is £1300 without gasgets or fitting, not impressed. Called Honda uk and they said they will call me back within 3 days. I've ordered a second hand shaft off ebay to do repairs myself then getting rid of bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilprofessore Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 But, are you sure that the failure is on the shaft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Well here is your first update. My honda dealer want £60 an hour just to find out whats wrong with the bike. I thought they might have said "really sorry for your problem we will take a look and see what can be done" but no, they want money first. Shaft is £1300 without gasgets or fitting, not impressed. Called Honda uk and they said they will call me back within 3 days. I've ordered a second hand shaft off ebay to do repairs myself then getting rid of bike. sorry to hear that. Care to post some pic of your damaged shaft once you have it torn down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer arrow Posted September 25, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted September 25, 2013 I have purchased my bike at the beginning of the summer. The registration said it was a 2011 model, but owing to a (now defunct) law, it was registered as a 2011 since that was the date it was purchased. I found the throttle response pretty bad and could hear/feel the clunk of the driveshaft at low to moderate speeds. A friend of mine who had a BMW R1150GS Adventure told me that the shafties are a bit more "ahem" vocal compared to chains. I also thought I needed to learn to ride a shaftie and needed to be smoother. I now experience false neutrals every now and then, especially shifting up from 5th to 6th gear (although it happens with other gears as well). It happens mostly if I try to shift quickly. It seems like this is not uncommon with VFR1200s. Of course these driveshaft failures make me nervous too. I already experienced an ECU failure (replaced under warranty; massively improved the throttle response, though still crappy compared to a 2002 Yamaha R1, shame on you Honda!) so these stories do not fill me with confidence ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 I have purchased my bike at the beginning of the summer. The registration said it was a 2011 model, but owing to a (now defunct) law, it was registered as a 2011 since that was the date it was purchased. I found the throttle response pretty bad and could hear/feel the clunk of the driveshaft at low to moderate speeds. A friend of mine who had a BMW R1150GS Adventure told me that the shafties are a bit more "ahem" vocal compared to chains. I also thought I needed to learn to ride a shaftie and needed to be smoother. I now experience false neutrals every now and then, especially shifting up from 5th to 6th gear (although it happens with other gears as well). It happens mostly if I try to shift quickly. It seems like this is not uncommon with VFR1200s. Of course these driveshaft failures make me nervous too. I already experienced an ECU failure (replaced under warranty; massively improved the throttle response, though still crappy compared to a 2002 Yamaha R1, shame on you Honda!) so these stories do not fill me with confidence ... +1 I couldn't have said it better my self....I'm having the same issues with my 2010, exsept for the ECU failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted September 25, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted September 25, 2013 The shaft drive on the STs was super smooth and not clunky. Buddies R1150GS didn't feel clunky either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer arrow Posted September 25, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted September 25, 2013 I didn't want to say clunky but more noise and movement perhaps compared to a chain drive, which should be expected I guess. My GS riding buddy didn't think anything was wrong with it. Petey, have you updated your ECU? The 2010s need to be updated with a new software. I took mine to get it done at the dealer. The ECU quit on them after they test drove the bike (to confirm the update was done properly). The shop manager thought the bike behaved weirdly and when he got back to the shop, he couldn't restart it. They took tested the bike with a secondhand ECU and sure enough it started. Good thing the bike was still under warranty. It's massively improved compared to when I first got it, but like I said it should be much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Thanks arrrow, no I have not... I will check with my dealer about the ECU update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted September 26, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted September 26, 2013 I didn't want to say clunky but more noise and movement perhaps compared to a chain drive, which should be expected I guess. My GS riding buddy didn't think anything was wrong with it. Petey, have you updated your ECU? The 2010s need to be updated with a new software. I took mine to get it done at the dealer. The ECU quit on them after they test drove the bike (to confirm the update was done properly). The shop manager thought the bike behaved weirdly and when he got back to the shop, he couldn't restart it. They took tested the bike with a secondhand ECU and sure enough it started. Good thing the bike was still under warranty. It's massively improved compared to when I first got it, but like I said it should be much better. I'm seeing this with all the newer models of bikes. Kawasaki, Honda, Aprilia, Yamaha, doesn't matter. The mfr's are all using so much software now, instead of hardware, that all the new bikes are needing ECU Reflashes (aftermarket) to run optimally. My R1 needed it, runs perfect after. The Aprilia (RSV4) needs the race ECU. The Kawasaki ZX10 needs an ECU flash to unlock all that HP and run better. The latest CBR1000RR, like our VFR1200, is neutered from the factory. It's cheaper for the manus to punt to software to pass emissions and noise certification tests for sale in respective countries. No more clipping wires, or inserting pins in the ECU, flapper valves, etc. And it's only going to get worse in the coming years. Traction control will be on everything, as well as ABS, and soon gyros, lean sensors, etc. All working in tandem with the ECU's. The aftermarket ECU business (flashes) is growing fast. My crossplane R1 is pre-TC and the latest model is TC only (mandatory) and guys report problems after changing gearing because the ECU doesn't know what to think when you change teeth on one of the sprockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 I re-chipped my RSV Mille for performance accessories - but it didn't need it for the quality of fueling.....same with my R1100S Boxer Cup. I've NEVER used a Power Commander and have never had an injected bike that needed it. I have had one dirtbike reflashed - Husqvarna. I've had 62 bikes, and the last 25 or so streetbikes have mostly been injected, aside from the odd GS1000G vintage bike I've picked up. My ZX-14 was perfect...Multistrada, better than perfect. FJR, ST1300, CBR1000RR - you name it, perfect throttle response. Many of those bikes got aftermarket exhausts... never had subpar throttle response, despite the excessively lean factory setups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted September 26, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted September 26, 2013 Some of them the fueling is fine, others are not. Most of them, the ECU flashes, are for removing factory restrictions put in place to meet the EPA noise test. Like our VFR1200 the CBR1000RR is neutered, the R1, the ZX10. It's only going to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchgixxer Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 He Dae did Honda help you with the shaft issue ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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