emt999 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Bike is at local honda dealer and are hopefully going to strip down and diagnose problem tomorrow. I will post pictures and diagnosis ASAP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roebling3 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I'm very sorry for your loss; as we say at memorial services. And very glad you were not physically hurt. I've been riding 60+ years. Had a transmission seize, at speed (bmw shop neglected to refill after service). Lost a U joint on my Guzzi Daytona; again at speed. (2nd owner. years out of warrantee. replaced , no charge, with upgraded joints and shaft). Lost my 1st chain this past summer, when a clip link let go on the Aprilia RS125. Silly me. I didn't think any bike, new from the factory, would have a clip link chain. Their reasons were actually sound! Most important is not getting hurt; and I've not been. I have been very lucky. No real consolation here but I know of several bmw final drive failures costing well over 2K$, not including towing, lost vacation time or a DNF in the Iron Butt. Good fortune, R3~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dae Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 Hey Dae did Honda help you with the shaft issue ? No Honda Korea wasn't willing to help me cover any of the cost of the final drive failure. Honda Korea's response "never seen a failure on the final drive before." Thought about writing to the headquarter in Japan but decided to just pay out of my pocket. The repair took about a month to finish, summer is a busy time at bike shop plus had to order the part from Japan. I had symptoms before the failure of the U-joint 1. When going over bumps (highway speeds) would hear squeaking sound/feeling, thought it was my rear shock absorber. 2. When rolling the bike in the garage in a quiet environment, I would hear a faint clunk noise at each revolution of the wheel. It was more pronounced, rolling the bike backwards. A week before the failure, I took the bike into the dealer and was told the slight clunk was normal, coming from the DCT transmission. While the final drive was being replaced I also had other work done, mileage at the time of failure 94,000KM All these items were 1st time replacement since purchasing the bike on May of 2010 1.Spark plugs looked fine and could have gone longer, the factory plugs were Denso. 2. Forks seals replaced, it wasn't leaking but had it replaced while doing fork oil. 3. Valves checked, was told by the technician adjusted the exhaust side, but left the intake side was fine. shims were not changed. The dealer reflashed/updated the ECU, throttle response is now noticeably more responsive. I'm now worried after the reflash, that it will put more stress on the final drive especially on the U-joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted October 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted October 1, 2013 Dae you should still contact Honda Japan to see if they will help with anything...it takes some time to get a response but it may be worth it. And then they cannot lie to the next person and say "never heard of this before" because you will have informed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dae Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Corner Carver, I will contact Honda Japan and send them photos of my final drive failure. I'll do that when I get back to Korea, I will be traveling to USA for the 3rd time in 3 months, dread the long flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted October 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted October 1, 2013 Get some sleep on the flight....dream of your favorite road with a beautiful day and light traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilprofessore Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 1.Spark plugs looked fine and could have gone longer, the factory plugs were Denso. Have you made 94000 km with the original spark plugs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted October 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted October 1, 2013 1.Spark plugs looked fine and could have gone longer, the factory plugs were Denso. Have you made 94000 km with the original spark plugs? That is only slightly less than the 61,000 miles that I got from a set of iridium plugs in a vfr... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dae Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 1.Spark plugs looked fine and could have gone longer, the factory plugs were Denso. Have you made 94000 km with the original spark plugs? That is only slightly less than the 61,000 miles that I got from a set of iridium plugs in a vfr... Yes, it's the 1st time I have changed the plugs, I kept them in their almost double the mileage (50,000KM Change interval from the owners manual recommendation), the bike was running fine and it's only about 3 years old. I don't ride aggressively, mostly in D mode, and always try to use gas/petrol station that has high volume sales, which should contain less water in the petrol. I primarily used regular fuel instead of premium, fearing that low volume of sales in the higher octane gas will contain higher concentration of water and other contaminates. The spark plug as stated previously looked fine and could have gone much longer. This just has been my experience but maintenance interval should be based own your riding style and environment where you ride. If your bike is 10 years old and with 10,000KM, it would be prudent to at least extract the plugs, to see if you can get them out. Also, NGK does not recommend putting anti seize on the plugs. Once,I put anti seize lubricant on my scooter spark plug and they kept popping out. I think I put too much of it on and after installing new plugs without it, it stayed put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer eastbowl2 Posted October 2, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted October 2, 2013 Thanks for the update, and for mentioning the warning symptoms you had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Yeah thanks Dae and also to the UK member who says that he has a manual, meaning 'normal' VFR1200F I assume. Thanks to both of you and others for the heads-up. If my driveshaft fails, you're all invited for coffee and cake because that's what they'll serve at my funeral. If that drive fails at the speeds I'm used to, I'm never gonna survive. As to any gear box issues, I rode a loaner Caponord 1200 for a while and all of a sudden I had a poor gear box again. Neutrals, false neutrals, I'm just not used to the street pattern anymore. I rode the Honda for a full year until I found a clean enough solution to make a GP pattern and during that year I kept getting it wrong. Something about an old dog learning new tricks. It's fine now, shifting as God intended. ;-) Though if you watch one of my clips - most are hidden because of the speeds - you will notice on up shifting as well as on downshifting, that the bike has difficulty to keep up and it's nowhere near as fast as Pedrosa's bike. I guess a million-dollar gearbox does help. D'oh! My bike got its reflash in 2011 IIRC, the Bazzaz Z-bomb later and now I think my air box temp sensor is on the blink. It runs poorly in warm temps or when cold (ie rich). Mpg is still okay so I think it's the sensor. So it's back to search for a competent Honda dealer, who are more rare here than a competent Aprilia dealer I can assure you! I tell you, in the same 3 years of riding an Aprilia Futura I had a coil fail and that was it. I was developing exhausts for Aprilias at the time so I did play with the ECU software a lot and spent countless hours on a dyno. But those days have gone and I just wanted a bike that would get me to work fast (it does do that) and give me no headaches for 5 years with normal maintenance and no major headaches. So far, Honda's not delivering. See my Pro-Bolt invoices and 2 seized rear shock adjusters. Btw best throttle response I had was on the Triumph Tiger 1050. Or any other Trumpet I rode, providing it had the right map in it. Sadly the throttle response, the triple engine and the dealer accessibility were the only things it had going for it. For me. To each their own etc. Glad you all survived the failed driveshafts. It is only money and no hospitals or funerals but it's money nonetheless. Bef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt999 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Sorry for the delay everyone. I have finally got my bike back as good as new. After taking it to a different Honda dealer they diagnosed the problem then sent a report and photos to Honda UK who then forwarded it on to Honda Japan. Honda paid in full £3300 for the repairs even though the warranty was out in April this year. It turns out the shaft had snapped in two completely at the universal joint exactly the same place as the other the other reported failure. After snapping it had continued to rotate cracking the swinging arm so that also needed replacing. I would like to say Honda Uk have been fantastic and dealt with the problem swiftly once I managed to get a dealer to diagnose the fault. So its not Honda its the dealers to blame for the poor customer relations. I have 2 pictures of the snapped shaft to show the problem but I am unable to get them on for you to look at. If anyone knows how to add photos on here let me know and I will add them ASAP. Thanks for your patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted November 13, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 13, 2013 That is indeed a gratifying resolution for you I am sure! Congrats. If you want to post a pic, you must first add it to your gallery by uploading it to your profile then use the icon above a "post" box that has the picture of the picture so to speak...and select which picture to post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted November 13, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 13, 2013 Great to hear this has been resolved. Should not have happened but at least Honda did a Tammy Wynette..... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Question is, what caused the failure(s), and could it justify a worldwide VFR1200 recall? Did Honda or the dealer tell you of any upgrades/design modifications to the new shaft assembly they installed on your bike? Can you trust the shaft again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Question is, what caused the failure(s), and could it justify a worldwide VFR1200 recall? Did Honda or the dealer tell you of any upgrades/design modifications to the new shaft assembly they installed on your bike? Can you trust the shaft again? that's not the question....not in my mind. random failures happen, if you want to spend time worrying about it happening to you....feel free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 All we need is a proper diagnosis, otherwise nobody can really conclude it's random.... We have enough VFR owners worrying about their next RR and wiring harness meltdown, the least Honda can do for customers that bought a $13+K bike from them is an explanation for these failures. Especially as it can result in something catastrophic at speed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt999 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Here are the photos hope they shead some light for those of you who understand these things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer hotshoerob Posted November 14, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 14, 2013 Looks like it is dry, like there was very little grease in the joint when assembled. Those needle bearings in there need adequate lube. Funny it didn't make much noise or give any warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Definitely looks like a bearing failure at the velocity joint..... Could be a casting flaw, or could be a stress riser manufactured into the parts at the joint. Maybe doing some magnafluxing on those damaged parts can track down where the failure possibly started by revealing crack patterns.... Hopefully it's just a few parts with manufacturing flaws sneaking through QC at Honda, instead of an actual design flaw, but most likely only Honda's Engineers can find out exactly what really happened here.... Did anyone check yet if other Honda shafties (ST's, GL's) have been having similar problems?? I suspect that some designs elements on those earlier shafts were carried over to the VFR1200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted November 14, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 14, 2013 Twice the universal joint on my Guzzi LeMans V failed..... It gave fair warning something wasnae right, so I never had a full lockup..... I must state though that that Guzzi got caned during the week and in the weekends..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworth Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 snip It turns out the shaft had snapped in two completely at the universal joint exactly the same place as the other the other reported failure. After snapping it had continued to rotate cracking the swinging arm so that also needed replacing.snip Although the two pictures do not show the actual shaft it appears to be a universal joint failure and not the shaft "snapping completly in two" The shaft appears to be completly intact. There's certainly no indication of a design problem, just a u-joint bearing collapse, likely due to a bad needle bearing or seal. This is the universal joint at the front end of the drive shaft, there's no indication of a failure at the sliding constant velocity joint, which is at the rear of the shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Just because the ultimate failure point is the U-joint does not mean that is what caused the failure in the first place. Somewhere else may have seized up and the U-joint may have been the weakest part of the link, so it snapped. The pics are inconclusive. All that banging around inside the casing has worn off sharp edges and made a mess of it. Personally, I am not gonna loose sleep over this failure. Somewhere down the road, Honda might come up with a common cause, if enough of them pop. I take enough calculated risks every time I swing a leg over a motorcycle... this is the least of my worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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