Baileyrock Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 While I have run many different tires over my last 130,000 miles on VFR's and think I'm on my 35th set on my current 02 VFR and I just couldn't find better tires for me than Michelins! I'm guessing that 20 of those sets on the 02 were PP, Best Overall Sport tire out there IMO! Exceptional Wet & Dry grip, excellent feedback and quick Tune-in which is very helpful while living in the twisties on our piggy VFR's plus very high confidence levels. Hard to beat and they also wore longer for me that any other brand w/o sacrificing anything except cost! I avg. 2200 miles out of a rear PP and when my money got real TIGHT a few years back I looked for something to help in that area, I found the Michelin Pilot Roar 2. I first tried a full set of PR2's, but after 20 back to back sets of PP's It took a full 2 days to adjust to the slower Turn-in. Once adjusted too, I found I could and did Push them as hard as any tire I've run and found No Fault whatsoever in them. BUT, I still missed the quicker turn. So my next set(s) have all been the PP/PR2 combo, this brought back 80% of the quicker Tune-in for me and almost doubled the mileage w/o any loss of grip or confidence. I found no reason to look elsewhere for my needs. This brings me to my current set of tires spooned on the bike, Dunlop Q2's! I have never liked Dunlops for many reasons and they have Never produced a decent Overall tire that meet my needs which is both Wet & dry grip, confidence and durability to live pushing these pigs in the twisties. Now I did like their D.O.T. Race tires which offered excellent grip and much higher life than any other track tire I've run and just couldn't figure why they could never seem to apply this strategy to their street tires! Well I've heard a lot of compliments of the new Q2's and spoke to Johnmark who loves them and rides similar to me so trying not to be close minded I decided to give them a try. First off they feel drastically different from what I was use to, not in a bad way just different. They have a rounder profile than the PP's and did not tip-in as quick, but seemed to be very neutral and easy to change lines with once turned in. These were spooned on just before I left out for a great 1100 miles trip over to the TN,GA,NC triangle of twisties and back for the King of the Earth(Trace) tour this past week. http://www.vfrdiscus...527#entry801527 We ripped up many good roads at a decently quick PACE, both tight and sweeper city. The tires worked Well, never gave any hit of a grip issue(dry) at all and confidence level was high. There are two areas yet tested with these Q2's, one being Wet grip and the other being durability. I suspect problems with the latter as the rear looks Half gone after this 1100 mile romp, so much so that I'm afraid that it won't last next weeks 4 day run to the same area! The front looks fine I'm not sure about the rear though I hoped to get enough mileage to last both of this months trip to the Gap area, But I just can't risk them not lasting the next 1500-2000 mile trip so I bought a new PR2 for the rear! This could be a premature decision, but I just can't take the risk with a possibly balding tire especially if we get wet weather. Q2 rear at 1100 miles New Pr2 rear side by side Not really much of a tire review especially when there not even done yet, I' will follow up with their life and wet grip(if I have any) when I re-install them after this trip. The Q2 is a Good tire, just doesn't look like it will work for me or perform in the areas I need them to compared to my current ideal set of tires, the PP/PR2 set! BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted September 17, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 17, 2011 Thanks again for your feedback on tires...nothing like experience for knowing what works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JamieDaugherty Posted September 17, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 17, 2011 Wow, that's a first. People I know who have tried the Q2's will never go back to Michelins again. The Pilot family of tires is ok but they certainly have some drawbacks. They take a long time to heat up so they tend to be difficul (read: scary) in the cold. Their shape and construction also make them difficult to tune a suspension to (another read: they are twitchy). That would be the "easy turn-in" you mention. For those with stock suspenion the Pilots can give the impression of better handling but that's just because they are quickening up things that were being slowed by teh stock forks/shock. I think you'll find that the Q2's do not have any of these down sides. You didn't mention what pressures you were running. The Pilots tend to need lower air pressure (aforementioned heat problems) than the Q2's. For the street I would suggest pressures near the 40-42psi mark on both ends. Normally Pilots won't deal well with those pressures. From the looks of your rear I would say it was a little under inflated, but that's hard to say for sure. Thanks for the detailed write-up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted September 17, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 17, 2011 Good to know about the pressures on the Q2's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted September 17, 2011 Author Share Posted September 17, 2011 Wow, that's a first. People I know who have tried the Q2's will never go back to Michelins again. The Pilot family of tires is ok but they certainly have some drawbacks. They take a long time to heat up so they tend to be difficul (read: scary) in the cold. Their shape and construction also make them difficult to tune a suspension to (another read: they are twitchy). That would be the "easy turn-in" you mention. For those with stock suspenion the Pilots can give the impression of better handling but that's just because they are quickening up things that were being slowed by teh stock forks/shock. I think you'll find that the Q2's do not have any of these down sides. You didn't mention what pressures you were running. The Pilots tend to need lower air pressure (aforementioned heat problems) than the Q2's. For the street I would suggest pressures near the 40-42psi mark on both ends. Normally Pilots won't deal well with those pressures. From the looks of your rear I would say it was a little under inflated, but that's hard to say for sure. Thanks for the detailed write-up! Wow is right, with close to 50k miles on PP's alone, riding twisties in temps from 22 deg to 103 I've NEVER had a cold tire issue ever! Super quick to warm-up IMO. I'm not sure who is having such issues with the Pilots? They have been the Benchmark of Sport tires for years. No doubt they are not the newest tech of the last 12 months, but I've still found nothing better for my use! PS I run 36/42 almost always. The issues you have mentioned with PP's are none existent to me or any other PP rider I know. In fact this is the first every issue I've heard of them from anyone! BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtlecreek Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 TY BR. I haven't tried the Q2, but they sound like they handle like a Metzler M3 and they seem to last about the same too. I have never had cold issues with the PR2/PP combo either. 36/42 all the time....of course at 250lbs, I work mine a little harder than most people...even in a straight line :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted September 18, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 18, 2011 Yeah I have to agree with you its hard to beat a good set Mich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer johnmark101 Posted September 18, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 18, 2011 I am on my third set of Q2's for my CBR and still can not report on how they do in the wet. Just looking at the sipes makes me think they will not do as well in the wet as the PP, but I could be wrong. I have not yet tried the PP / PR combo that Kevin and several others here swear by, but may do so on my next set of tires for the VFR since I am getting tired of shelling out money so often for super sport rubber. However, On my CBR 600 the Q2 is definately my favorite for "spirited" riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Gerrys02800 Posted September 18, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 18, 2011 I have the PP/PR3 combo and with the rain we can get up here this tire package has performed better than my 023, not by leaps and bounds, but a noticable improvement. No cold weather issues as of yet. This past week the ride to work temp's in the am hovers around 4c (39F) and its about a 30 min ride to work...at 5:30am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted September 18, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 18, 2011 :lurk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 UPDATE 9/18/11 The Q2's, I can not find much fault with these tires! PRO's: They have great grip(Dry), easy and linear Tip-in, great feedback and strong confidence levels. They are easy to change lines mid corner with little effort! This is a strong dry tire! Note: I did Not get a chance to test them in the wet which is about as important to me as dry because with an avg of 400 miles days and mtn riding rain is likely and I want as much or High levels of Wet confidence as well! Q2 rear at 1600 miles Cons: Mileage SUX!!!!!!!! I'm into the wear bars with less than 1600 miles on the rear! This is some of the Poorest wear results to date and completely Kills my interest in every buying another set! I will be very lucky to get 2k miles out of the rear closer to 1800 miles is likely. That's is in the PP2ct wear range and I've always considered the PP2ct Rear a waste of money bang for the buck. If i wanted a true Set of Sport tires I would run standard Pilot Powers of which I avg. 2200 miles + from the rears! The Q2 is a great tire, but Offers No benefits in Grip or confidence over PP's and has much worse wear rates! For me the standard PP win out over the Q2 value/grip/confidence wise and the PP/PR2 plan kicks the crap out of the Q2 in the same Value/grip/confidence test providing almost 100% better tread life with No loss of grip or confidence levels including in the Wet! For me and my needs, the Pilot Power front & Pilot Road 2 rear are Still the Best Bang for the buck out there! Your results may very! BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer whitelightning Posted September 18, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 18, 2011 Thanks for the write up BR, I was checking those out all weekend on the "tour" and curious how they'd hold up. Someone's going to have to come out with the godsend of all tires to make me switch from my PR2's. Just like you BR, I've never heard of anyone at all having any temp issues with Michelin's. The only thing I ever had a problem with was a set of PP2CT's that I cooked to the wear bars in under 1200 miles, but they held like I'd expect from a Michelin, just can't afford to be doing that too often. IMO the PR2's have never given up anything as far as grip to the sport tires out there. 36/42 here as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted September 18, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 18, 2011 Considering I can't keep up with either of you two using Powers front and rear, I think I'm about ready to try out the PR2 rear and try to get my tires wearing evenly. CornerCarver has a brand new PR3 on his '98, so we'll see how that does on the Catskills run. Of course I have two brand new pair of Powers sitting in the garage at the moment, so it may be a little while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Thanks for the write up BR, I was checking those out all weekend on the "tour" and curious how they'd hold up. Someone's going to have to come out with the godsend of all tires to make me switch from my PR2's. Just like you BR, I've never heard of anyone at all having any temp issues with Michelin's. The only thing I ever had a problem with was a set of PP2CT's that I cooked to the wear bars in under 1200 miles, but they held like I'd expect from a Michelin, just can't afford to be doing that too often. IMO the PR2's have never given up anything as far as grip to the sport tires out there. 36/42 here as well. Yeah, just don't see a need for the PP2ct on the street especially the rear! Now a PP2ct front w/standard PP rear is an exceptional track day set-up! The 2ct rear gets greasy at track speeds and temps and starts moving around whereas the standard PP rear just keeps gripping! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer johnmark101 Posted September 19, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 19, 2011 Got back from riding the VFR this afternoon and my rear is bald between the center and the edges. Time to order some new rubber so I am seriously thinking I need to do the PP / PR2 combo for the VFR, if not just a straight set of PR2's. I ride the CBR pretty hard at at times on some of my favorite back roads and will stick with the Q2's for that little road scalpel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Got back from riding the VFR this afternoon and my rear is bald between the center and the edges. Time to order some new rubber so I am seriously thinking I need to do the PP / PR2 combo for the VFR, if not just a straight set of PR2's. I ride the CBR pretty hard at at times on some of my favorite back roads and will stick with the Q2's for that little road scalpel. You guys that think the road 2 rear is too slow on turn in, go with BT21 rear with Power front, It wont last as long as proad 2 but alot longer than a PPower rear. The point is the issue is easily solvable, if you cant take advantage of the life of the road2. I have a Blast on the bt 21 Power combo package, but I run the road 2 cause I cant afford the tire expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Spud, I don't think I've ever run the 021 or 023, but I don't have an issue with the PR2 rear turn-in anymore. Don't seem to even feel any of the odd feel towards the end of their life when running the PP front combo that Dutch mentioned. BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer whitelightning Posted September 19, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 19, 2011 I ran BT021s on my Gixxer and I must say I like the PR2's much better. They gave me no confidence at all when fully leaned over. My rear constantly stepped out, where it doesn't at all on the PR2's or PP's. Once I ran out the set of BT's I went to PP's, then to PR2's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 I ran BT021s on my Gixxer and I must say I like the PR2's much better. They gave me no confidence at all when fully leaned over. My rear constantly stepped out, where it doesn't at all on the PR2's or PP's. Once I ran out the set of BT's I went to PP's, then to PR2's. Good to know, that helps any further thoughts away from that direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted September 21, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 21, 2011 Thanks for the review. My neighbor put a set of the Q2s on his 748, and really likes 'em. It is a track bike though so he doesn't really care about mileage. At the current cost of PPs I really can't see running anything else. They're cheap, and they work really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted September 21, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 21, 2011 Thanks for the review. My neighbor put a set of the Q2s on his 748, and really likes 'em. It is a track bike though so he doesn't really care about mileage. At the current cost of PPs I really can't see running anything else. They're cheap, and they work really well. +1 Ditto on that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kebrider Posted September 22, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 22, 2011 Thanks for the feedback BR. My mileage for Q2s and PPs is the reverse of yours with 1850 miles this summer on a PP rear and before that 3200 on a Q2. The Q2 was mostly FL riding while the PP was TN/NC/GA miles so I suspect my next set of Q2s will vaporize in a matter of weeks. I moved here permanently in June and I had under 6K on the VFR. 11,800 miles showing this morning. On my 4th rear tire since moving here but 2 were track take-offs. Used to think I was hard on tires in FL but the mountain roads really take their toll on rubber. Gotta say the 023 rear is an excellent choice and I may go with the Q2 front and 023 rear in the future. I like the PR2 but I think the 023 is just as grippy and the cost/mile is very close. I am basing the costs on the way my 2500+ mile 023 looked this morning with plenty of tread before the wear bars are exposed in the center though the point on the tire where the compounds change is the high wear mark and will be bald this weekend I suspect (assuming I do the 500 miles planned). I still have a brand new set of Q2s and I just received the 016s that were on sale ($188.88 delivered) at Chaparral. May use the 016s next since their date code is early 2010 while the Q2s are the last month in 2010. If the 016 rear lasts 2K it will cost close to the same (cost/mile based on $94.44) as a good ST rear. I think I will just go ahead and buy 2 more sets of the 016s at the $188.88 deal just because I love the feel of the them and you just gotta love sport tires on the VFR. Quality of miles are as important as quantity of miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted September 22, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 22, 2011 ... I still have a brand new set of Q2s and I just received the 016s that were on sale ($188.88 delivered) at Chaparral. May use the 016s next since their date code is early 2010 while the Q2s are the last month in 2010. If the 016 rear lasts 2K it will cost close to the same (cost/mile based on $94.44) as a good ST rear. I think I will just go ahead and buy 2 more sets of the 016s at the $188.88 deal just because I love the feel of the them and you just gotta love sport tires on the VFR. Quality of miles are as important as quantity of miles. I like your reasoning on buying sport tires on the cheap when available and enjoying the benefits of that and letting go of the need to have mega miles per tire. Then mixing in ST tires when deals are more even between the two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer johnmark101 Posted September 22, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 22, 2011 I have always preferred super sport tires for their outright performance. I have used PP's and Pirelli Corsa 3's in the past but get slightly better mileage with the Q2's. No tire I have ridden is as confidence inspiring as the Q2. Now that I do most of my "spirited" riding on the CBR i am going to switch to sport touring tires on the VFR after my current set of Q2's is shot. I am spending too much money on rubber!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted September 22, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 22, 2011 Thanks for the heads up on the BT-016's. I got a friend who prefers 'Stones, and needs some new rubber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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