Single front brakes conversion on 4th gen

[Guest roman]

I'm thinking of converting my front brakes from dual disc to single disc, mostly for aesthetics, since I'm stripping and polishing my rims and want more of it to 'show'.

I'm no engineer but I do know that the brakes work by converting kinetic energy into dissipated heat, so dualies just 'share the load' as can dissipate more heat at the same time. This is good if you need lots of constant high speed heavy braking action (like racetrack or canyon riding), but for normal everyday street riding -- which is all I do-- it's probably over-engineered. There's plenty of bikes out there that got away with single front disc brakes; such as the Hawk NT650, Yamaha GTS1000, not to mention those hand built Harley choppers with no front brakes at all (which looks great but is a bad idea)...

It looks like it wouldn't be hard to do: Just cap off the extra line and remove the caliper/disc.

Now is there any reason why I shouldn't do this?

[SEBSPEED]

Racetrack, canyon, or how about stopping in an emergency??

Most people look for MORE braking power, NOT less... sorry sir, can't support you in your venture.

If you paint your rotor carriers black to cover the factory gold, your wheels will "pop" more and you can keep both discs...

[V4 Rosso]

There's plenty of bikes out there that got away with single front disc brakes; such as the Hawk NT650, Yamaha GTS1000,

The brakes on those bikes were designed to be used in a single disc setup (GTS disc is 1 3/4" larger in diameter). By just removing a brake caliper you will not only half the stopping power but also more than half the feel. Give your insurance company a call and see how thrilled they are with your idea of removing half the brake system :laughing6-hehe:

IMHO This is a bad idea.

[FotoMoto]

Since the master cylinder is designed to push twice the number of pistons, your one disc setup may by very, very touchy/sensitive. Combine that with half the stopping power and I wouldn't want to be in your shoes in a panic braking situation. Urban riding situations can demand the most of the bikes' braking abilities and your skills.

The one disc look has been adopted by street "poseurs" who are copying the look of drag racers. Those guys have long coast downs at the end of the run and MUCH longer wheel bases which allow the back brake to do more work.

[trav72]

Whenever I see someone convert to a single disc, it just makes me want to do this I have no idea why someone would want less braking power.

[YoshiHNS]

Makes more sense to just paint and hide the carriers as much as possible. You don't need those breaks until someone cuts you off.

[5thave]

Makes more sense to just paint and hide the carriers as much as possible. You don't need those breaks until someone cuts you off.

I don't understand why you want less braking force, but if you do go ahead I'm betting you will need to change master cylinder to avoid too sensitive/ too powerful for single caliper use. I know that master cylinder volume (the piston, not the reservoir) is matched to the calipers in use. Halving the caliper piston surface area while maintaining the master piston surface area/ leverage ratio is going to change the feel A LOT. I suggest very cautious experimentation on your first ride.

Good luck. Please report back.

[Veefer800Canuck]

Since the master cylinder is designed to push twice the number of pistons, your one disc setup may by very, very touchy/sensitive. Combine that with half the stopping power and I wouldn't want to be in your shoes in a panic braking situation. Urban riding situations can demand the most of the bikes' braking abilities and your skills.

Other way around. Removing one caliper and simply reconnecting the OE master cylinder to the remaining caliper will result in wooden lever feel and increased lever effort with reduced braking power.

NOT a touchy/sensitive lever.

But yeah, bad idea.

[Guest]

Ok now I think it's a bad idea... mostly from what V4 Rosso says about it being designed for 1-disc vs not.

I came to thinking this from an emergency stop perspective; the brakes will heat up twice as much for the same stopping power, which is fine for street use since the brakes shouldn't be very hot since (under my street driving) they're not under constant maximum use. I understand the brake pads will last half as long though.

The problem is that each front discs are held in with 6 bolts near the hub of the rim.. So for the same stopping power as 2 discs, the torque load can be twice that on single disc (thus twice as much pressure on the bolts attaching it). The rim is made of aluminum, which is quite soft... the last thing I'd need is a have the disc rip completely off the rim while doing an emergency stop.

I don't do emergency stops very often (about once every 2 years), but I probably won't be here if I couldn't

[Guest]

hmm does a Hawk GT 650 front rim fit a 4th gen vfr? :)

[CornerCarver]

I'm thinking of converting my front brakes from dual disc to single disc, mostly for aesthetics, since I'm stripping and polishing my rims and want more of it to 'show'.

I'm no engineer but I do know that the brakes work by converting kinetic energy into dissipated heat, so dualies just 'share the load' as can dissipate more heat at the same time. This is good if you need lots of constant high speed heavy braking action (like racetrack or canyon riding), but for normal everyday street riding -- which is all I do-- it's probably over-engineered. There's plenty of bikes out there that got away with single front disc brakes; such as the Hawk NT650, Yamaha GTS1000, not to mention those hand built Harley choppers with no front brakes at all (which looks great but is a bad idea)...

It looks like it wouldn't be hard to do: Just cap off the extra line and remove the caliper/disc.

Now is there any reason why I shouldn't do this?

First of all, Welcome aboard Roman. Glad to have you here, hope you are still around in a year.

Now to your question regarding removing up to 50% of the available stopping force on your VFR:

I think it can be done but would recommend against it. If you decide that you want to push on and go for it anyway (beauty is in the eye of the beholder and style is subjective) I would offer a few additional suggestions.

1. notice and practice riding the way the guys on custom Harleys ride, seldom as fast as the posted speed limit, never splitting lanes and definately never following closer than 6 or 7 car lengths. This should allow the aesthetics you want while not requiring you to use much braking force.

2. add a totally bitchin exhaust system so you can downshift instead of braking for most of your casual braking needs with the side benefit of really sounding amazing.

3. either pull one of your plug wires or (if funds allow) purchase and install a PC III that can be programmed to act as a govenor, not allowing speeds in excess of 65 mph or so. You can still get into trouble at those speeds but, if you are wearing proper gear, you are more likely to be able to walk away.

It would seem that you might be able to modify a linked brake system to provide an acceptable level of braking performance for your desired styling statement. Maybe you can start with fitting a Buell front wheel with the single ZTL brake rotor....

Let us know what you wokr out and be sure to post up some pics.

[Guest]

[Beck]

the 4th gen is a much heavier bike than the Hawk GT and modding DOWN to a single disc does not make any sense and can be a dangerous thing to do.

As it was, I easily got my Hawk to overheat (blue) and score it's single disc.

The ancient tech sliding caliper brakes on the 4th gen is marginal as it is with two disc, taking one disc off just for aesthetics will be a ridiculous thing to do. :blink:

JMOs

Beck

95 VFR

[Dutchy]

Why not buy a Hawk Gt and ride that instead of a VFR?? :blink:

[chris2992]

The problem is that each front discs are held in with 6 bolts near the hub of the rim.. So for the same stopping power as 2 discs, the torque load can be twice that on single disc (thus twice as much pressure on the bolts attaching it). The rim is made of aluminum, which is quite soft... the last thing I'd need is a have the disc rip completely off the rim while doing an emergency stop.

Your logic is a wee bit flawed here. If you remove one disk and pad set, you will not have the same braking power available. You will have half of the available front stopping power, the other disk and pad set can not work twice as hard as there is only a certain amount of friction available between the disk and pad surface. As far as the bolts and aluminum rim being strong enough, they would easily handle any braking force you can throw at them without failing (provided no damage to the rim) utilizing an oem system.

Don't take any of the posts here as personal attacks, we just like to see people ride as safely as possible, and we usually get passionate about it. So welcome aboard and your ride doesn't exist with out an official intro thread and pictures.

[Guest]

The problem is that each front discs are held in with 6 bolts near the hub of the rim.. So for the same stopping power as 2 discs, the torque load can be twice that on single disc (thus twice as much pressure on the bolts attaching it). The rim is made of aluminum, which is quite soft... the last thing I'd need is a have the disc rip completely off the rim while doing an emergency stop.

Your logic is a wee bit flawed here. If you remove one disk and pad set, you will not have the same braking power available. You will have half of the available front stopping power, the other disk and pad set can not work twice as hard as there is only a certain amount of friction available between the disk and pad surface. As far as the bolts and aluminum rim being strong enough, they would easily handle any braking force you can throw at them without failing (provided no damage to the rim) utilizing an oem system.

Don't take any of the posts here as personal attacks, we just like to see people ride as safely as possible, and we usually get passionate about it. So welcome aboard and your ride doesn't exist with out an official intro thread and pictures.

I don't take anything as a personal attack, I know you guys mean well ;)

Actually one of my reasons is that one of the calipers are sticking badly (as in it doesn't release). I guess after 15 years and 90K miles it's bound to happen. I've changed the pads regularly but only bled the brakes a handful of times. I'd like to disable to sticking one until i get a kit to rebuild it.

If I go ahead and do it, I'll probably avoid freeways and stick to urban streets, as i wouldn't go faster then 50 mph anyways.

[Guest]

If I go ahead and do it, I'll probably avoid freeways and stick to urban streets, as i wouldn't go faster then 50 mph anyways.

To keep the bike in balance, I would strongly suggest halving your engine as well.

You could unplug two of your spark plugs, or, if you are more ambitious, you could remove two of the connecting rods, pistons, valves, etc and plug the cylinder with an old beer can or something ;).

Or you could sell the thing and get a Ninja 250 if you are serious about the single brake thing. :)

Good luck!

[Guest]

If I go ahead and do it, I'll probably avoid freeways and stick to urban streets, as i wouldn't go faster then 50 mph anyways.

To keep the bike in balance, I would strongly suggest halving your engine as well.

You could unplug two of your spark plugs, or, if you are more ambitious, you could remove two of the connecting rods, pistons, valves, etc and plug the cylinder with an old beer can or something ;).

Or you could sell the thing and get a Ninja 250 if you are serious about the single brake thing. :)

Good luck!

That's funny, my first bike was a '88 VTR250, which is basically like a VF500 cut in half. :) ... The brakes on it was some weird inner-caliper disc though; and weren't very good.

[timmythecop]

always listen to the Japanese fellows who wear lab coats, have clipboards and lotsa pens in their pockets. and braking performance aside, I DESPISE the look of a single disc.

[V4 Rosso]

Actually one of my reasons is that one of the calipers are sticking badly (as in it doesn't release).

Two hours and $20 in parts and it can be as good as new.

[The mailman]

April Fools Day is April 1, not June 1! - and heat doesn't stop your bike. Friction stops your bike. Heat is a by-product of that friction and the more heat you "achieve", the less braking power you "achieve". I would find another aspect of a bike to customize. I've never seen anybody excited to say "Hey! Look how little braking ability I've got!".

[V4 Rosso]

I read your post that you were going to freshen the calipers but it was deleted with yesterday's server hickup. Anyway, you can try to just pressing the piston out of the calipers and give the pistons and cilinders a good cleaning. It's never a bad idea to replace the seals but you may well be able to reuse the current ones. As SEB mentioned, pistons are expensive so make sure not to scratch one when removing them.