5th Gen stator options?

[Hingley]

I am just finishing the rebuild of a 1999 VFR800 and was messing around with the voltage readings at the battery at idle and 5000 rpm and did not like the look of the voltage going from 13.2 to 13.0 

So I did all the checks in the manual relating to the stator and regulator and all seemed fine. I than remembered one of the members saying if it all checks out check again when it is warmed up. I did just that and when I checked for the stator wires to ground I found  the reading were way off. I also read that the AC Volts coming out of the stator should be around 20V at idle +- and maybe in the 50V range at 5000rpm. When this was checked I could only get around 12-12.5 ACV at idle and 7.0-11.4 ACV at 5000 rpm, today I pulled the stator cover off and found the condition of the stator did not look too bad but I guess must be on the way out. I am not sure if there is any way to tell if this is the original stator or not ( 30,000 miles on bike ) since I found a couple of spots on the paper gasket that has black silicone on it, and I would be surprised if Honda did this at the factory

I made a couple of calls today to a couple of Honda dealerships and they tell me the Honda stator is no longer available.

So what is a good source of a replacement stator?,

I have read that a lot of the aftermarket stators are crap but I am not sure I have too many choices. I would get this one rewound but I can not find any companies in Canada that will do the rewinding of a stator for a motorcycle

Any stator rewinding companies in Canada?

Any suggestions for aftermarket stator?

 

 

 

[mello dude]

I dont remember who on this forum was, but replaced with 6th gen gear... I'm sure he will chime in... 

 

btw - your multimeter was set to AC volts when you tested i? (yes?) 

 

 

[bmart]

43 minutes ago, Hingley said:

did not like the look of the voltage going from 13.2 to 13.0 

What does this mean? 

[Hingley]

 

btw - your multimeter was set to AC volts when you tested i? (yes?)

Yes my multimeter was set for AC Volts when I tested the stator at idle and 5000rpm

did not like the look of the voltage going from 13.2 to 13.0 

What does this mean? 

At idle the DC volts at the battery was rough 13.2 DC V but when the motor rpm was at 5000 the battery volts were 13.0 DC V, I think it should have been around

14 +- DC V at 5000 rpm

[bmart]

Better. Thanks!

[Hingley]

I have been thinking about what you guys have said so far and it got me thinking I may have screwed up on my testing some how and as such I have gotten bad readings

I should note I do not know a lot about wiring, current and voltage so I could see my self screwing up

I just compared my multimeter with another one and tested the output of a wall socket which is 120AC Volts, both were the same +-. hope this is a way to check.

I then read you have to check the AC Voltage from the stator with the wiring connector unplugged, I did not do this as I just checked the AC Voltage on the regulator side of the connector. In my mind I figured this way there was a lot less chance of touching the two probes while testing and risk shorting out the stator.

Would or could you get a bad AC voltage reading by checking on the regulator side of the stator plug?

If this is the case that the AC Voltage must be checked with the connector unplugged, why?, that is the advantage in doing it this way?

Thanks for the help

 

[vfrgiving]

What were each probe tips touching when you got this reading?  Were both leads touching a pair of the yellow wires, or did you have one lead going to the bike's ground?

[Grum]

8 hours ago, Hingley said:

Would or could you get a bad AC voltage reading by checking on the regulator side of the stator plug?

If this is the case that the AC Voltage must be checked with the connector unplugged, why?, that is the advantage in doing it this way?

Thanks for the help

Yes, you could measure a bad AC voltage by measuring with the plug connected to the R/R.

- If there is a fault with the R/R causing the AC voltage to drop badly, how will you know if its the R/R at fault or the Stator?

Note - While not specified in the Service Manual the AC output from the Stator at 5000rpm should be anywhere from 50 to 75 ac volts when unplugged from the R/R.

 

By having the plug separated and measuring the unloaded AC from the stator, provided they measure equally across any combination of the three wires and you don't measure any ohms to ground of any of the wires, and you should measure low ohms 0.1 to 1ohm between each of the three wires then you can say the Stator is O.K. Conversely, if voltages and/or ohm measurements are bad, you certainly have a faulty Stator.

 

Remember, unlike the DC side where the Negative is Grounded to frame, the AC Stator and its AC voltage has NO connection to frame/ground, its said to be floating!

 

So if the Stator checks out O.K. then that only leaves the R/R as the faulty item if you have a charging issue, thats assuming all your connections are good.

Hope this helps.

[Hingley]

What were each probe tips touching when you got this reading?  Were both leads touching a pair of the yellow wires, or did you have one lead going to the bike's ground?

 

When testing the stator wires I was using the multimeter probes to touch the metal terminals inside the stator/regulator connector, on the regulator side

Perhaps the one thing I should have done was check the AC Voltage on the stator side of the connector, if the readings were the same as the regulator side this

would have told me that the connector itself is not the problem, I think.

 

Three stator wires test

At idle ( AC Volts )

a-b =12.1

a-c = 12.6

b-c = 12.6

 

At 2000 rpm ( AC Volts )

a-b = 12.8

a-c = 9.3

b-c = 11.5

 

At 5000 rpm ( AC Volts )

a-b = 11.4

a-c = 7.0

b-c = 9.7

 

Cool stator, test for ground ( OHMS )

wire#

1 = 0

2 = 0

3 = 0

Hot stator, test for ground ( OHMS )

wire#

1 = 6.6

2 = 6.2

3 = 7.0

 

Battery DC Volts

At idle 13.2 +-

At 5000 rpm 13.0 +-

 

Hope this all makes some sense to you electrical guys, to me it looks like the stator is not putting out the AC Voltage it should and the Regulator is working hard

to try make the needed DC Volts.

I should note that it does not take long for the stator wires to get pretty dam warm to the touch as well as the original Honda regulator 

[Hingley]

Yes, you could measure a bad AC voltage by measuring with the plug connected to the R/R.

- If there is a fault with the R/R causing the AC voltage to drop below spec, how will you know if its the R/R at fault or the Stator?

 

By having the plug separated and measuring the unloaded AC from the stator, provided they measure equally across any combination of the three wires and you don't measure any ohms to ground of any of the wires, and you should measure low ohms 0.1 to 1ohm between each of the three wires then you can say the Stator is O.K. Conversely, if voltages and/or ohm measurements are bad, you certainly have a faulty Stator.

 

Remember, unlike the DC side where the Negative is Grounded to frame, the AC Stator and its AC voltage has NO connection to frame/ground, its said to be floating!

 

So if the Stator checks out O.K. then that only leaves the R/R as the faulty item if you have a charging issue, thats assuming all your connections are good.

Hope this helps.

 

GRUM, Thanks for explaining this out, I learned something today for sure, now it makes sense to me as to why you test for AC Voltage from the stator with the connector unplugged. It never even crossed my mind that you could get poor readings from the stator having a load on it

Looks like I will put the old girl back together, unplug the stator and give it another go

[mello dude]

Dude.... Step back first and confirm your battery is good. 

Then there 3 checks for the stator.... on the connector...stator side.... not R/R

- Do A to B, B to C, C to A.... engine off. pin to pin on resistance.. should be less than 1.0 ohms

- Next A to ground, B to ground, C to ground... should be infinity, no connectivity, nada... again engine off.

- Then as my friend Grum pointed out, A to B, B to C, C to A. engine running, AC volts on the stator pin side, 20ish on idle, 50ish + at 5000rpm

 

With system connected and checking at the battery, engine running,.... roughly 13.0 at idle.... 13.8 to 14.3ish at 5000 rpm... healthy system. 

Are you running an OEM R/R?

 

[ShipFixer]

If it comes to it - 6th gen stator and 6th gen flywheel, from a 2003+ bike will work on your 5th gen.  Get the flywheel on eBay for $50, it's not like they age out :lol:

 

Don't get a 2002 flywheel and you're fine.

[Lorne]

Your's doesn't look all that bad, the dark windings are above the high-tide mark. For comparison, here's my '09 VFR800's stator which failed on a trip to Colorado back in 2015. It still had enough output that the battery would stay charged for about 2 days travel. 

 

But if you do need a replacement here are three options, and all seem to be in stock.

FortNine though you have to specify your bike

RegulatorRecifier

RMStator (via Amazon)

 

[vfrcapn]

On 6/18/2023 at 3:05 PM, ShipFixer said:

If it comes to it - 6th gen stator and 6th gen flywheel, from a 2003+ bike will work on your 5th gen.  Get the flywheel on eBay for $50, it's not like they age out :lol:

 

Don't get a 2002 flywheel and you're fine.

This here. I put a new Honda '03+ stator and used eBay flywheel in my '99 a few months ago. Works great, flywheels are $30-$50.

[Hingley]

Well I thought I would reply to the thread with an update since all you guys took the time to help me solve my low charging numbers at the battery

After a couple of you guys explained out the reasoning for testing the stator unplugged I clued in that I had screwed up and also did not need to remove the stator cover and have a look.

So, I reinstalled the old stator and cover, unplugged the stator connector and retested, turns out the stator was working fine since at idle she had almost 20 VAC and at 5000RPM she was putting out 60 VAC, so time to rethink, I rechecked all the wire leads and since ever thing checked out ( including the oem regulator ) based on the service manual specs, I figured it had to still be the regulator somehow, as luck would have it I had a shindengen regulator I bought years ago and a regulator harness from Roadstercycle. As part of this install I soldered the stator lines and sealed them with two layers of shrink tubing.

I fired her up last night and looks like all is finally well.

Battery voltage DC , OEM Regulator

Idle 13.2 +-

2000rpm 13.9 +-

5000rpm 13.0 +-

Battery voltage DC , Shindengen regulator with Roadstercycle harness

idle 14.4 +-

2000rpm 14.5 +-

5000rpm 14.5+-

 

Thanks for all the guidance guys, learned a lot about electrical wiring and current for sure

I will ask one last thing

What are the thoughts about how to mount the regulator, is it better to have it resting again the frame for hot absorption or to have a space behind the regulator for air flow like I tried by using a flat washer spacer?

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[Bren]

It should be flat against the plate on the frame to allow any heat to soak into the frame. Some people have used thermal paste in there to increase the heat transfer.

These RR's don't get so hot but still probably a good idea.

 

Those numbers look perfect 👍

[mello dude]

Yes...voltage is perfect.......

Agree mount flat on the frame...on mine I threw in one of my mount plates for a heat sink, (probably overkill)........as a BTW....ditch that thermal breaker....replace with a good quality 40 amp rated fuse holder.

My fav is a MetriPack 630, and typically I'll buy from CycleTerminal. Del City also has some good options.

 

[Hingley]

Agree mount flat on the frame...on mine I threw in one of my mount plates for a heat sink, (probably overkill)........as a BTW....ditch that thermal breaker....replace with a good quality 40 amp rated fuse holder.

My fav is a MetriPack 630, and typically I'll buy from CycleTerminal. Del City also has some good options

 

Perfect, frame heat sink it is, yes I was thinking I would switch out the thermal breaker for a good inline fuse holder.

Will use the breaker for now to give the bike a good shake down to see if I have an issues from the winters rebuild

[MBrane]

I disagree with mounting against the subframe. The subframe on these bikes gets extremely hot due to heat sink from the engine. Like burn your hand hot on a warm day of riding. I space the R/R away from the frame, and put a little axial fan on the front to give it some airflow.

[vfrgiving]

1 hour ago, MBrane said:

I disagree with mounting against the subframe. The subframe on these bikes gets extremely hot due to heat sink from the engine. Like burn your hand hot on a warm day of riding. I space the R/R away from the frame, and put a little axial fan on the front to give it some airflow.

 

In my experience none of this is necessary.  Especially a fan bolted to a modern MOSFET.  I picked up a VFR with a SH689 installed.  That isn't a MOSFET but was Honda's upgrade to the original slim one.  I don't know when it was installed on the bike, but plenty of miles.  I personally have put on an additional 44,000 miles with this regulator and it is still going.  No fan and it's bolted to the stock subframe location.  Stator is direct soldered and last weekend I bypassed the stock DC connector going straight to the battery posts with new wire and fuse holder. I'm getting 14.3V at 5000RPM

[mello dude]

The pre-MOSFET R/Rs did get freakn hot and adding a fan was part of a fix to improve in the past.  But the newer tech MOSFET really dont get hot, just warm, no hand burn when touched... FH020aa.... 

[MBrane]

Read that again. It's the subframe that gets hot enough to burn your hand. I don't want that heat soaking into the R/R.

 

I know the fan is probably overkill, but I had it laying around so why not? It can't hurt.

[ShipFixer]

5 hours ago, MBrane said:

Read that again. It's the subframe that gets hot enough to burn your hand. I don't want that heat soaking into the R/R.

 

I know the fan is probably overkill, but I had it laying around so why not? It can't hurt.

I'd believe its getting hot because of the original RR.  If your subframe is that hot due to some heat source other than the RR you've got other problems... 😁

 

I never took any kind of temps on mine, but my bike *always* smelled like hot electrical wiring when running or after shut down.  Going to MOSFET fixed that. You should not need additional cooling.

[MBrane]

Take a heat gun with you the next time you do a long ride on a warm day. You might be surprised.

[vfrgiving]

On 7/3/2023 at 11:49 AM, vfrgiving said:

 

I'm getting 14.3V at 5000RPM

 

Well, I was. 😄  That was with a fresh charged battery and no load from a radiator fan.  After a commute and slow speed riding with fan cycles I got home to a battery resting at 12V.  I charged the battery back up and had the local shop test it again.  It exceeded its rated CCA.  The stator Ohm'd fine but failed AC output miserably.  One pair had 6VAC at idle at 15VAC at 5,000 rpm.  I have a new stator on the shelf.  I'm just waiting on a new MOSFET regulator to show up.  I'm going to take this opportunity and retire the SH689, it'll go in the parts bin.