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Walker1

Upper back pain

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Hello guys! I've just come from a Honda deauville and onto a vfr800 2001. Had it less than a week and I've had an old back problem creep back fast enough. It's the only thing that's changed in my daily routine.

Bar the back issue, the riding experience is a dream.. the bike is leaps and bounds ahead of the deauville and I do enjoy it. 

What I'm hoping for is some information/suggestions that might work to eliviate the problem. I've had a look around and was thinking helibars, a custom seat and/or a back protector maybe.. what do you guys suggest?

I'm 5'8 and have no idea what other information to offer yee! 

Edit: it's thoracic pain specifically on the left side of a vertibrae

Thankyou

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One idea might be Stomp Pads or Tech Spec on the tank.  The idea is to support the body with the legs / knees by gripping the tank vs using the arms.  If you can ride with a very light pressure on the grips generally there will be less stress in the back and shoulders.  A sportier position is more demanding physically,  so maybe some motivation to increase one's fitness level.  I go through that each spring - have to work out more to be fit for long rides. It also helps me to stop every hour or so to take a brief brake and stretch.

 

 

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I’m six foot tall and had similar issues. Helibars helped a lot. The other thing is what Cogswell suggested, keep the weight off your wrist. It becomes more natural after you work at it. My back, neck, and shoulder are all happier now.
Getting old sucks but it beats the alternative!


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Hi Walker

I fear you will need to have a look at your birth certificate or drive faster.

I had a VFR 750 some years back, crashed it and have to back down a bit. In 2019 I dicided to buy the VFR800, however during test driving I got the same broblems with my back. Decided for the VFR800X insted. Mutch less back pain.

 

/Mike

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http://cycle-ergo.com/

 

 

You set to your size and can see what a change like helibars will do

 

image.png.cb66af4336da877bbd8b77703d4e66ff.png

 

 

image.thumb.png.0153eec7ebbf9a25195bd4f428aaadfa.png

 

 

image.png.dc4ba1d0fbf8863813ac0a3f5753001b.png

 

 

 

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PS:

 

stay away from RC51's   :goofy:

 

 

 

image.png.fc0442ad190aa04646cbb7e964ba3253.png

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Do you get the pain on the left side between your spine and shoulder blade?

 

I get a pretty nasty pain in that spot after riding a couple hours. 😕

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I have upper back issues among others and my doc says holding your head up in the air stream takes a lot of back stuff. I've used a Givi Touring windscreen on all my fifth gens.  Being a little squirt crouching behind it takes a huge load off and, as a bonus, greatly reduces wind noise. And just installing it added at least 5% to my gas mileage and, when tucked behind it, 10%+. Also makes the cockpit warmer and drier; good for us in the upper middle U.S.

 

But even with those efforts, I can't ride for more than an hour at highway speeds before I have to stop and recover. (Which conveniently co-insides with h2o, nicotine, caffeine,and bladder relief.) At least for this old phart. :wheel:

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Having both a touring windscreen and Heli-bars, I still get my back pain. Though I don't know if it's the same as the OP's.

I never ride with my weight on my wrists. I'm almost always using my legs or core. I think it's more about having my arms extended in an outstretched, but not fully extended position for hours...not exactly at rest but not fully engaged.

I could alleviate the pain briefly by fully gripping the bar with my left hand and then leaning back and twisting my upper body to the left to stretch out that back muscle (Rhomboid muscle iirc)

I've been spending the winter trying to condition myself and my old and aching muscles to better handle the long slogs on the bike 🤷‍♂️

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On 3/15/2020 at 3:23 PM, Maiko said:

Hi Walker

I fear you will need to have a look at your birth certificate or drive faster.

I had a VFR 750 some years back, crashed it and have to back down a bit. In 2019 I dicided to buy the VFR800, however during test driving I got the same broblems with my back. Decided for the VFR800X insted. Mutch less back pain.

 

/Mike

Yes, It’s such a great ride after coming from the deauville I hope this is correctable! I’m 27 years old but that backs been a bother for some years now..

On 3/15/2020 at 5:14 PM, Dutchy said:

http://cycle-ergo.com/

 

 

You set to your size and can see what a change like helibars will do

 

image.png.cb66af4336da877bbd8b77703d4e66ff.png

 

 

image.thumb.png.0153eec7ebbf9a25195bd4f428aaadfa.png

 

 

image.png.dc4ba1d0fbf8863813ac0a3f5753001b.png

 

 

 

I had a look at this! If i can lower the seat and get the helibars the position would be better however it would be hard to tell without riding around how much of a difference it would make!

On 3/15/2020 at 6:06 PM, slowbird said:

Do you get the pain on the left side between your spine and shoulder blade?

 

I get a pretty nasty pain in that spot after riding a couple hours. 😕

exactly the spot! Ive spent a lot of money on physios/physical therapists but my latest conclusion is it is a rib that comes out of place! Only riding 20 minutes each way to work but boy is it creeping back!

 

On 3/15/2020 at 7:05 PM, Cogswell said:

One idea might be Stomp Pads or Tech Spec on the tank.  The idea is to support the body with the legs / knees by gripping the tank vs using the arms.  If you can ride with a very light pressure on the grips generally there will be less stress in the back and shoulders.  A sportier position is more demanding physically,  so maybe some motivation to increase one's fitness level.  I go through that each spring - have to work out more to be fit for long rides. It also helps me to stop every hour or so to take a brief brake and stretch.

 

 

I have the baglux tank cover on the bike but probably not the same... Yes this is something i need to practice.. I am usually trying to force my spine straight which causes my arms to straighten.. maybe a more relaxed position with bent arms might help! I thought fitness and i am working on it.. however it is reasonable as I’m in the gym most days of the week (working). Stretching is what Ive been working on!

 

7 hours ago, MaxSwell said:

I have upper back issues among others and my doc says holding your head up in the air stream takes a lot of back stuff. I've used a Givi Touring windscreen on all my fifth gens.  Being a little squirt crouching behind it takes a huge load off and, as a bonus, greatly reduces wind noise. And just installing it added at least 5% to my gas mileage and, when tucked behind it, 10%+. Also makes the cockpit warmer and drier; good for us in the upper middle U.S.

 

But even with those efforts, I can't ride for more than an hour at highway speeds before I have to stop and recover. (Which conveniently co-insides with h2o, nicotine, caffeine,and bladder relief.) At least for this old phart. :wheel:

Thats brilliant! (The convenience.. not the pain!) I do have a double bubble screen on there. On the deauville I had no windshield as it blew off on the motorway and left me with not enough fairings to reinstall another haha.. no pain at all on that one!

 

6 hours ago, slowbird said:

Having both a touring windscreen and Heli-bars, I still get my back pain. Though I don't know if it's the same as the OP's.

I never ride with my weight on my wrists. I'm almost always using my legs or core. I think it's more about having my arms extended in an outstretched, but not fully extended position for hours...not exactly at rest but not fully engaged.

I could alleviate the pain briefly by fully gripping the bar with my left hand and then leaning back and twisting my upper body to the left to stretch out that back muscle (Rhomboid muscle iirc)

I've been spending the winter trying to condition myself and my old and aching muscles to better handle the long slogs on the bike 🤷‍♂️

Do you try and keep the spine straight or let the ergonomics of the bike take over?.. has the conditioning helped? Haha

 

PS guys appreciate the response..wasn’t expecting any but was hoping, when i posted this!

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39 minutes ago, Walker1 said:

exactly the spot! Ive spent a lot of money on physios/physical therapists but my latest conclusion is it is a rib that comes out of place! Only riding 20 minutes each way to work but boy is it creeping back!

 

Do you try and keep the spine straight or let the ergonomics of the bike take over?.. has the conditioning helped? Haha

 

PS guys appreciate the response..wasn’t expecting any but was hoping, when i posted this!

 

 A rib coming out of place?! 😧 Wow I don't think mine is the same issue, but the pain is in the same spot huh? 

I already don't have great posture so I don't sit straight, I'm canted forward. I think I do let the ergonomics of the bike take over.

I can't say if the conditioning has helped since it's still too cold to ride this season lol. I'll see next month maybe 😄 

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After 2 surgeries over a 20 year span, and due for a 3rd later this year, I have found that using a TENS device while riding helps tremendously.  I apply the 2 patches over the muscles in the area that has the pain.  My device has a USB port for recharging the batteries, and I connect it to my bikes USB port.  Once the pain starts I turn the device on and choose the level I need.  These units generally will run for 15 or 20 minutes, but if you get one from China some can be set to run for up to 99 minutes. 

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You should definetly get some Heli Bars to help with the ergonomics before giving up on the bike.  One of the first mods I did on my 98, that and a Sargent seat made a world of difference for me.  Maybe you have someone near you that has a VFR with Heli's, or a similar sport bike with Heli's you could try out? 

As for the physical conditioning part, think about improving core strength.  Planks are good for this and try a Yoga class!  You would be surprised what a good work out you get.   I'm 60, 5'10, 185lbs and very comfortable on my VFR.  I still go out for 350 mile day rides through the mountain roads in New Hampshire on it, I take a advil to start the day for those rides.

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My doc pointed out that two Advil or Alieve before I ride would be a lot better than waiting until I was sore. For exercise, I’ve just started rowing with a cheap machine and like it a lot for low impact workout. I have back, shoulder, an knee issues.


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Me 5'7" 160lb Male 65+ I have had back issues over the years and the thing that saved me was basically doing core strength exercises on a more or less daily basis, especially if I know I'm going to be riding for a few hours. It takes all of about 3-5 minutes. So I don't get back issues, but due to an old whiplash injury I periodically get numbing in my right hand middle fingers. It sucks getting old when all the stupid stuff you did in your teens and twenties catches up.

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5 hours ago, tireguy said:

You should definetly get some Heli Bars to help with the ergonomics before giving up on the bike.  One of the first mods I did on my 98, that and a Sargent seat made a world of difference for me.  Maybe you have someone near you that has a VFR with Heli's, or a similar sport bike with Heli's you could try out? 

As for the physical conditioning part, think about improving core strength.  Planks are good for this and try a Yoga class!  You would be surprised what a good work out you get.   I'm 60, 5'10, 185lbs and very comfortable on my VFR.  I still go out for 350 mile day rides through the mountain roads in New Hampshire on it, I take a advil to start the day for those rides.

 

Many of us here have Heli's on our rides - another option if you really want to go "higher" are Convertibars.  Those will however will require new, longer hoses for clutch and brake. Heli's take the stock hoses more or less to their max.  At the same time, getting the torso more vertical also places more weight on the pelvic area, so other, unintended consequences can sneak in, such as a sore arse - so maybe seat mods would go along with higher bars.  And don't discount peg lowering blocks for added comfort - a 1" drop doesn't look like much but can go a long way to making these bikes more comfortable. 

 

Also, +1 on the TENS device - I got to try one out helping a relative use one - they can be very effective for pain and stiffness relief.  They can be had on Amazon for very reasonable prices - if you buy one, get a pack of extra electrode pads - you'll need 'em. 

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I bought a Doh last year for a trip to San Marino (Rimini really but San Marino sounds much more posher) with the missus.  Great bike for carrying a load of stuff and a lovely riding position but so under-powered it had to go as soon as I got back.

 

I get a bit of jip in my Cilla too.  Bought a V-Strom and a Tiger a few years back but they didn't stick around long either.  Had the VFR for 20 years and although I keep threatening to chop it in for a more comfy ride, I've still got it and even been out for a blast today!

 

Sorry I can't contribute much to the thread but reading it through has helped me out a bit as well as the OP.

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On 3/17/2020 at 3:37 PM, bear22099 said:

After 2 surgeries over a 20 year span, and due for a 3rd later this year, I have found that using a TENS device while riding helps tremendously.  I apply the 2 patches over the muscles in the area that has the pain.  My device has a USB port for recharging the batteries, and I connect it to my bikes USB port.  Once the pain starts I turn the device on and choose the level I need.  These units generally will run for 15 or 20 minutes, but if you get one from China some can be set to run for up to 99 minutes. 

Any videos/manuals on how to install a USB port onto a vfr 800?

17 hours ago, Cogswell said:

 

Many of us here have Heli's on our rides - another option if you really want to go "higher" are Convertibars.  Those will however will require new, longer hoses for clutch and brake. Heli's take the stock hoses more or less to their max.  At the same time, getting the torso more vertical also places more weight on the pelvic area, so other, unintended consequences can sneak in, such as a sore arse - so maybe seat mods would go along with higher bars.  And don't discount peg lowering blocks for added comfort - a 1" drop doesn't look like much but can go a long way to making these bikes more comfortable. 

 

Also, +1 on the TENS device - I got to try one out helping a relative use one - they can be very effective for pain and stiffness relief.  They can be had on Amazon for very reasonable prices - if you buy one, get a pack of extra electrode pads - you'll need 'em. 

Thats what I was thinking.. the Helis coupled with a Sargent seat.. however thats a lot of money to invest onto the bike! Could be worth it.. if all goes well this bike will be my regular commuter for the next 3 years minimum.. its a great ride.

19 minutes ago, Lion said:

I bought a Doh last year for a trip to San Marino (Rimini really but San Marino sounds much more posher) with the missus.  Great bike for carrying a load of stuff and a lovely riding position but so under-powered it had to go as soon as I got back.

 

I get a bit of jip in my Cilla too.  Bought a V-Strom and a Tiger a few years back but they didn't stick around long either.  Had the VFR for 20 years and although I keep threatening to chop it in for a more comfy ride, I've still got it and even been out for a blast today!

 

Sorry I can't contribute much to the thread but reading it through has helped me out a bit as well as the OP.

would you get yourself a Sargent/corbid seat.. and if you happen too, let us know how it is!:P

 

PS took the bike for about 30-40 minute spin yesterday and let the shape of the bike take over... elbows well bent. Upper back felt ok. Lower back was abit tight however tightness over pain any day!

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In order to help with my back problems on a 2001 VFR, prior to surgery, I fitted 2nd hand VF1000 bars in place of the standard viffer bars.  Very little work required, very little cost and worked well.  The idea came from VFRD inmates.

Had surgery a couple of years later but left the bar upgrade on the bike.  Mine was lower back problems and causing grief other than riding, now it is just a hard worn 75 yo back giving very little problems on long trips.

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I found the LSL handlebar kit much more effective/comfortable than Gen-Mars or Heli-Bars- and I've used all 3 at various times on various VFRs.

 

I also used various lowered pegs-  "Little Shop", Knight Design Footpegs, and have ridden a bike with Buell (iirc) pegs). All were more comfortable than stock; but my preference was Knight Design because they are available in a wider base.

 

Good luck,

Walter

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On 3/20/2020 at 3:35 AM, swas said:

In order to help with my back problems on a 2001 VFR, prior to surgery, I fitted 2nd hand VF1000 bars in place of the standard viffer bars.  Very little work required, very little cost and worked well.  The idea came from VFRD inmates.

Had surgery a couple of years later but left the bar upgrade on the bike.  Mine was lower back problems and causing grief other than riding, now it is just a hard worn 75 yo back giving very little problems on long trips.

Sounds like a great idea and from what i can see on google they are abit higher! Any idea how much raise/backwoods they are compared to the vfr stock bars?

Yes i feel you.. the back pain is a constant.. not just on the bike!

21 hours ago, wpbarlow said:

I found the LSL handlebar kit much more effective/comfortable than Gen-Mars or Heli-Bars- and I've used all 3 at various times on various VFRs.

 

I also used various lowered pegs-  "Little Shop", Knight Design Footpegs, and have ridden a bike with Buell (iirc) pegs). All were more comfortable than stock; but my preference was Knight Design because they are available in a wider base.

 

Good luck,

Walter

Thats a good idea! Seems the lsl vs helibars is a personal preference however I don’t think many has been blessed with the experience you’ve had! Not sure if I can get the LSL kit in Ireland... did you have to change any of the cables?

Also the foot pegs are something I am considering.. are they more of a comfort thing compared to helping back pain?

 

 

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On 3/17/2020 at 3:16 PM, Sweeper said:

My doc pointed out that two Advil or Alieve before I ride would be a lot better than waiting until I was sore. For exercise, I’ve just started rowing with a cheap machine and like it a lot for low impact workout. I have back, shoulder, an knee issues.


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I've had great relief from naproxen sodium, the generic for Aleve. I took it daily for more that 15 years to get through my day. My doc, who acted as Team Physician for Everest expeditions, said taking naproxen a few days prior to expected exceptional physical activity, allows the pain relief to get into the blood stream and remains there for several days.  He did eventually warn that long-term use can damage my liver. So I stopped the every-day routine and only use it on the days I plan to ride.

 

This is anecdotal but after putting my back in muscle spasms when I picked up a loaded hard bag incorrectly while loading up to leave this motel, the clerk explained that he was in physical therapy for the same issues. He was told that using the lower back muscles to hold one's self up, which they were not intended to do - they are too weak, instead of the abdominal "six-pack" muscles, especially the bottem two, which are, was the source of his problem. 

 

So, while riding, I periodically do isometric exercises on my abs to improve my situation.

 

Also I've realized a "secret weapon" for pain control: coffee. Studies have found tha coffee/caffeine increases one's bodies tolerance for pain.

 

All these combine to keep this old phart in the saddle.

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Being someone who suffers from chronic low back pain, I feel it interesting to offer up this tidbit of info.  Over the years I’ve done a few different things to help alleviate low back pain while riding, and a lot of the suggestions on here help immensely.  The most helpful are like Maxswell mentioned, doing isometrics for your abdominal muscles while riding certainly helps and maintaining strong core muscles is key BUT, keep the rest on your back and neck muscles strong as well.  
 

I’m 6’-1” and two of the best additions I made to my bike over the years that helped aid in the comfort of riding were a Sargent Seat and HeliBars.  The HeliBars gave me a slightly more upright riding position and the seat forever changed the way I sit.  The factory seat seemed to slope endlessly toward the tank causing discomfort, well you know where, down by area that contacts the seat.  LOL.  I‘d compare it to straddling a banana, and the narrower the seat the more Uhmmm pressure points, causing an increase in discomfort and an increased tendency to move around more on the seat to alleviate this pressure.  This in turn caused an increase in low back pain and a viscious cycle of discomfort.  The Sargent seat is shaped more like the saddle on a horse so instead of sitting “ON” the seat, it’s more like you sit “IN” the seat.  Since the Sargent seat slopes a bit upward at the front it helps control movement on the seat that you may experience from sliding/rocking forward and back when you accelerate/decelerate.  The mere fact that the seat removes some of the pressure points on the butt and inner thigh area, will help keep those muscles relaxed and prevent cramping/spasming of the low back muscles.  
 

The HeliBars help relax my reach to the bars, and allow me to have a bit more of a bend in my elbows while riding.  This aids in discomfort caused between the shoulder blades and the low back.  I still noticed a bit more tension between my shoulders and would experience a bit of a knot, but nothing too terrible.  Over the last few years, this knot seemed to becoming more prevalent so I tried, you guessed it, a new windscreen, to help reduce wind turbulence on my helmet.  After trying about 3 different styles of screens, the one that worked best FOR ME, was an MRA Touring screen with the adjustable lip spoiler.  
 

The final thing I have added to my bike that has made the biggest difference yet was a used set of Throttlemeister bar ends.  Unfortunately no longer available the Throttlemesisters are type of throttle lock.  One brand still available that is similar in design is the Kaoko Throttle lock by the way so you may want to consider those instead.  They use friction to help prevent throttle hand fatigue by preventing the throttle from snapping shut when you let go of the throttle.  The throttle can still be easily manipulated, even with the “lock” engaged.  By being able to engage the lock while riding gave me the ability to release my grip a bit on the throttle without having to come to a stop, and as a result I could shake out my right arm, and my left.  It’s hard to imagine how much stress your right hand is under until you release it while riding, and this can be especially true on longer rides.  Because of the way the human body works, when your right arm gets sore and the muscles on that side of the body become sore, guess which side of your body usually hurts MORE.  You guessed it, the OPPOSITE side, as that is the side of the body compensating to relieve stress on the other side.  

in my particular case, all of the additions have made a positive effect on my level of comfort while riding, but this is very personal as what might work for me may not work for you.  There are sooooooo many things that can affect the feel of a certain accessory.  
 

Another issue in modern day society, that most all of us are guilty of, myself included, is spending far too long staring at our phones.  You know what I mean, sitting in a chair with your phone in your hand, staring down with your head bent forward.  This postural position is HORRIBLE for your neck and upper back muscles.  Guess where you will feel the effects of this pain the most.  When riding, you’re doing a little bit of the opposite by trying to hold your head up, using the muscles that have now been fatigued by staring down at your phone/tablet/computer screen.  
 

The long and short of this whole long winded explanation is that any change you make to your bike may change an angle somewhere else, that may increase or decrease some level comfort elsewhere.  So just be conscious of what each change does or may to your bikes ergonomics, and if you make a change pay conscious attention to whether it helps or hinders the level of comfort.  

 

NOW, for GAWDS sake, if you’ve made to the end of this little rant, you’ve been spending far too long reading on your phone/tablet/computer so go stretch a bit and get out for a RIDE.  YOU NEED THE RELEASE.

 

 

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I can testify that I use several of zoomzoom's techniques and they all do something to help:

Sargent Seat,

Throttlemeister bar ends

and I do not have a smart phone to stare at (I carry a prepaid flip phone for emergency use only to go with my land-line corded home phone) 

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On 3/15/2020 at 5:11 AM, Walker1 said:

Hello guys! I've just come from a Honda deauville and onto a vfr800 2001. Had it less than a week and I've had an old back problem creep back fast enough. It's the only thing that's changed in my daily routine.

Bar the back issue, the riding experience is a dream.. the bike is leaps and bounds ahead of the deauville and I do enjoy it. 

What I'm hoping for is some information/suggestions that might work to eliviate the problem. I've had a look around and was thinking helibars, a custom seat and/or a back protector maybe.. what do you guys suggest?

I'm 5'8 and have no idea what other information to offer yee! 

Edit: it's thoracic pain specifically on the left side of a vertibrae

Thankyou

BTW: Welcome to the asylum from The Land Of Interesting Weather. You obviously have great taste in mc's since you ride a fifth gen in the fastest color. But we need a picture of your machine to prove you are not a figment of our imagination.

 

Good luck with your pain issues.

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On 3/21/2020 at 9:41 PM, Walker1 said:

Sounds like a great idea and from what i can see on google they are abit higher! Any idea how much raise/backwoods they are compared to the vfr stock bars?

Yes i feel you.. the back pain is a constant.. not just on the bike!

The bars at the clamp are about 9mm higher, however, the original 800 bars are less than a 90 deg angle from the clamp, whereas the VF1000 bars are as best as I can see 90 deg, so increasing that 9mm by quite a bit at bar end (I don't have exact figures).  I also mounted mine with the fork tube cap 6-7.5mm below the top of the clamp (had difficulty getting repeatability on this figure) to create extra bar height and to account for the fact that the location tit on the bottom of the clamp is not compatible with the 800's top tree/fork clamp.  I have not had any reason to change this as the clamp on the VF1000 bars are good.  This method also allows bar rotation position calibration for comfort and screen clearance.  I have also used a marker pen to record on the fork tube cap the position of the clamp gap to save me the process of setting it all up again when bars need to be removed.

I was contemplating all of the expensive bar replacements but this worked so well for me they are still there.  Oh, and the 2nd hand bars came up a treat after an aluminium paint job!

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