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  • 4 weeks later...
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Taking shape nicely.  :beer:

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Coxy and I have been discussing this since almost the beginning and I truly admire his abilities to create his own frame. But I still wonder, why. Honda did the hard work and made a great frame in cast alloy, why bother with all the effort to make a steel version. But that’s JMO and I still admire his craftsmanship.

 

Regarding the tank size, I have frequently achieved 180 miles of fast riding (not motorway) on a tankful and to be honest, have no desire to go further without a break. But if you want more, a CrossTourer tank is bigger and an easy swap, but looking at the merged VFR and Yamaha tank makes me wonder if an SP-1/SP-2 tank could be more easily massaged to fit. 
 

Now we just need to crack Honda’s unique and proprietary serial protocol and a better choice of dash would be possible.

 

Ha, maybe that’s the cause of their recent global hack. Someone was trying to decipher that VFR serial protocol. 😀

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10 hours ago, BiKenG said:

But if you want more, a CrossTourer tank is bigger and an easy swap, 

Is it a drop in replacement?

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It looks like the mounts are different, as well as the side trim, but both bikes have the same engine/frame. If you're building a naked/stretfighter then it would not be too difficult to figure it out, especially if you have the skills that Coxy has shown.

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20 minutes ago, rtho782 said:

Interesting, I didn't realise how close they were!

Literally the same engine. The exhaust was pretty much the only way they changed the power characteristics - well and the ECU mapping of course. Intake and cams etc are all the same.

 

I'm not actually sure about the tank mountings. They may even be the same. More likely the front, but maybe even the rear. Don't expect a 'drop-in' replacement on a VFR1200F though. The tank sides are completely different so plastics just wouldn't match up. However, for a one-off naked special that wouldn't be an issue. I considered it for my eVo4, but 180 miles range is enough for me.

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I'd be more confident adapting the plastics with fibreglass etc than I would be cutting and welding a tank, in fact there is a composites bay at work that usually work on aircraft parts who I could probably bribe into doing it for me...

 

I'm going off topic tho, and I wouldn't want to distract from the amazing project in this thread!

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5 hours ago, BiKenG said:

Literally the same engine. The exhaust was pretty much the only way they changed the power characteristics - well and the ECU mapping of course. Intake and cams etc are all the same.

 

eh?! surely not! so an exhaust change, and ecu flash and you go from 127bhp to 170?!  seems like a massive leap in performance. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Coxylaad said:

eh?! surely not! so an exhaust change, and ecu flash and you go from 127bhp to 170?!  seems like a massive leap in performance. 

 

 

Well the ECU has complete control, as we know from multiple ride modes on other bikes that can cap the performance. The smaller diam. headers on the CrossTourer will increase torque while restricting top end power and with different ECU mapping that's all that's required to change the engine characteristics. You can check, but I'm pretty sure that when I did I found the pistons, heads, cams and intake stuff is the same on both bikes. Makes huge sense from a manufacturing point of view.

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wow. thats good news for crosstourer owners, upgrade headers and remap and bosh massive power increase!

 

does the crosstourer have much more low down torque? in reality all these detuned engines just seem to be completely neutered in all areas. 

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1 hour ago, Coxylaad said:

wow. thats good news for crosstourer owners, upgrade headers and remap and bosh massive power increase!

 

does the crosstourer have much more low down torque? in reality all these detuned engines just seem to be completely neutered in all areas. 

ISTR reading the same torque figures but much reduced power for the X on the Honda website.

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2 hours ago, Coxylaad said:

wow. thats good news for crosstourer owners, upgrade headers and remap and bosh massive power increase!

 

does the crosstourer have much more low down torque? in reality all these detuned engines just seem to be completely neutered in all areas. 

Sadly, whenever a manufacturer says they 'retuned' an engine with the implication that they may have dropped power, but increased torque, the reality is usually they simply lopped off the top end, with maybe a slighter fatter torque curve, but rarely is it actually higher.

 

Don't get carried away with thoughts of the apparent extra power of the 'F' model though. Horsepower only determines top speed. Torque is what gets you there.

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On 6/16/2020 at 7:47 PM, BiKenG said:

 

 

Don't get carried away with thoughts of the apparent extra power of the 'F' model though. Horsepower only determines top speed. Torque is what gets you there.

 

I believe Guy Martin said:

 

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how much you move the wall back....  :tongue:

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@Coxylaad   Any updates please?  Pretty please??? :tongue:

  • Haha 1
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FYI....

 

VFR1200 X front cam 14110-MGH-640

VFR1200F front cam 14110-MGE-010

 

VFR1200 X front cam 14120-MGH-640

VFR1200F front cam 14120-MGE-010

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This looks great so far.  So wish Honda would make a streetfighter/standard with the V4.  

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