Member Contributer RC1237V Posted October 5, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 5, 2016 Just happened across this, is it old news? http://powersports.honda.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepretender Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 News is more than 12 hours old almost yesterdays news Honda stepped up to the plate and seems to have knocked it out of the park, or at least competing well with the best in class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sfdownhill Posted October 5, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 5, 2016 Good lookin' motorcycle. I'm going to put that paint job on my next track bike. Thanks for sharing, Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted October 5, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 5, 2016 Mercy Ari, the gas tank is aluminum not titanium... I'm not the only one disappointed Honda didn't ante up an affordable race bred V4 like the CEO talked about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 4 hours ago, BusyLittleShop said: Mercy Ari, the gas tank is aluminum not titanium... In the video released by Honda it also shows the gas tank is made of titanium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted October 5, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 5, 2016 Looks like Titanium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC36Rider Posted October 5, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 5, 2016 6 minutes ago, Switchblade said: Looks like Titanium. It does but I'm baffled as to why any engineer would want to make a fuel tank out of titanium. Sounds to me like that idea is straight out of the marketing department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted October 5, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 hours ago, RC36Rider said: It does but I'm baffled as to why any engineer would want to make a fuel tank out of titanium. Definitely says Titanium, then in one video complains that this "art" is covered with bodywork. Trust me if anyone crashes one of these, the tank will explode if it holes whilst sliding upside down, the down side to titanium & friction = sparks :( I'm surprised that Ti tank would be allowed under racing regs, but probably no one has done it before so not banned yet ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC36Rider Posted October 5, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 5, 2016 22 minutes ago, Mohawk said: [...] the down side to titanium & friction = sparks :( I'm surprised that Ti tank would be allowed under racing regs, but probably no one has done it before so not banned yet ! True that. It had not occurred to me but that's yet another (technical) reason why it's a silly material for a tank.  Who wants to bet that the race kit will contain an Al replacement tank.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Biker Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 The tank is covered in a plastic shell. Ti is a lot lighter and way stronger than aluminum. Ti also has a much higher melting point than AL. The Boeing Dreamliner has a higher TI content than AL. That and a lot of fighter jets use Ti throughout their structure. And if Ti is such a fire hazard then why do they use it for exhaust and literally dump fire & fuel right into it! Ti for the full exhaust system was used in the 929/954 and I'm sure it is/was used by Suzuki on their GSXR 1000. They really should use MORE of the material especially in the sub-frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted October 5, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 5, 2016 9 hours ago, BusyLittleShop said: Mercy Ari, the gas tank is aluminum not titanium... I'm not the only one disappointed Honda didn't ante up an affordable race bred V4 like the CEO talked about... Big time disappointment here as well as the V4 was definitely bantered about. It's like they are scared a production V4 will get into their competitors hands or something.. Makes little sense when your customers have begged for one for nearly two decades.. Yamaha has a crossplane 4, Aprilia a true V4, Honda is just hell bent on inline 4 for the masses. My local Honda GM is severely disappointed. Hondas were selling so poorly they acquired a Yamaha dealership and that acquisition has kept them going.. This is just another update instead of an all new bike we wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC1237V Posted October 5, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Rogue_Biker said: The tank is covered in a plastic shell. Ti is a lot lighter and way stronger than aluminum. Ti also has a much higher melting point than AL. The Boeing Dreamliner has a higher TI content than AL. That and a lot of fighter jets use Ti throughout their structure. And if Ti is such a fire hazard then why do they use it for exhaust and literally dump fire & fuel right into it! Ti for the full exhaust system was used in the 929/954 and I'm sure it is/was used by Suzuki on their GSXR 1000. They really should use MORE of the material especially in the sub-frames. Aluminum is actually lighter than Titanium, but it is much stronger (not stiffer) and most Ti parts can be made thinner while having the same or better strength than Aluminum parts. Most bikes have steel tanks which would spark as well............ Ti is not a fire hazard like Magnesium, which will will burn like a flare if ignited (even under water), and won't stop until it runs out of it's own fuel - I've heard you can cover it in graphite to extinguish - but have not tried...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted October 5, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 5, 2016 Thanks for pointing that out Russo... Ti Fuel Tank would not be much weight savings over aluminum and is cost prohibitive for a street bike... even the $180K RC213 sports an aluminum tank for cool $7,849.55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC36Rider Posted October 5, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 hours ago, Rogue_Biker said: 1. The tank is covered in a plastic shell. 2. Ti is a lot lighter and way stronger than aluminum. 3. Ti also has a much higher melting point than AL. 1. True so no big risk there but the fact remains that Ti sparks readily when rubbing against asphalt while Al does not. 2. Nope. Weight for weight, Al is the structurally stronger material. Ti is much harder and has much higher tensile strength... which is why you'll see Ti con-rods but not Al but this is hardly relevant for a fuel tank. 3. Yup ! Which is why Ti is the material of choice for lightweight exhaust systems while Al is a non-starter. I'd like to know if there is a single advantage to Ti in this application. I can't think of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted October 5, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 5, 2016 52 minutes ago, RC36Rider said: I'd like to know if there is a single advantage to Ti in this application. I can't think of one. I can, marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Biker Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Weight for weight AL is lighter, so you are right RC36rider. But strength for strength it is superior to AL. So if you want strength without the bulk, then Ti is a good choice. Given the size of the fuel tank, I would wager they got a lighter tank with it being Ti for the same tensile strength. Also, unlike AL, which cracks when it its overly stressed, Ti will bend. So perhaps also the Ti tank will be more resistant to punctures. However, I'm sure it was just weight reduction they were after, especially for something that sits so high up on the bike. It kind of aligns with Ti being chosen for structural parts on modern airplanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Biker Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 4 hours ago, luvtoleanit said: Big time disappointment here as well as the V4 was definitely bantered about. It's like they are scared a production V4 will get into their competitors hands or something.. Makes little sense when your customers have begged for one for nearly two decades.. Yamaha has a crossplane 4, Aprilia a true V4, Honda is just hell bent on inline 4 for the masses. Well, as much as I love my VFR's V4 engine, I have to admit I kind of understand Honda's resistance in giving us a modern, high volume, V4 sport bike. V4's are notoriously heavy due to their additional valvetrain gear and serpentine exhaust systems. Ever wonder why Aprilia's with V4's are porkers....that's one reason. That and the Aprilia's are closing in on 1100cc's. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Inline-4's are also much easier and simpler to maintain, especially on major service intervals. Having only one set of camshafts and CCT's makes things easier, although that may not matter to every owner. I really don't think torque is a factor in liter bike engine configuration. The only real "nice thing" about the V4 is the exhaust sound. But there is nothing wrong with the sound Formula 1 engines either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted October 5, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 hour ago, RC36Rider said: 1. True so no big risk there but the fact remains that Ti sparks readily when rubbing against asphalt while Al does not. 2. Nope. Weight for weight, Al is the structurally stronger material. Ti is much harder and has much higher tensile strength... which is why you'll see Ti con-rods but not Al but this is hardly relevant for a fuel tank. 3. Yup ! Which is why Ti is the material of choice for lightweight exhaust systems while Al is a non-starter. I'd like to know if there is a single advantage to Ti in this application. I can't think of one. The only reason I can think of is maybe survivability at high speed crash, just a guess, maybe the tank will not collapse . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayarearider Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 What better Kid to show you how to ride it... http://dai.ly/x4w5orm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhenley17 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I just read this article on the new GSXR1000. I think Nicky will still have his work cut out for him.http://www.cycleworld.com/2017-suzuki-gsx-r1000-and-gsx-r1000r-superbike-technical-preview/?src=SOC&dom=fb&con=FbPagePostAdsSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Biker Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I can't get over how big the muffler is on that new GSXR. It's bigger than the rider's thigh and that just doesn't look right at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhenley17 Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I didn't notice how ridiculous it looked until you reposted that picture... yeah. I had a new can ordered within a week of buying my VFR, so I don't really pay attention to that, but for that same reason, I'm wondering why Honda and Suzuki both are bothering with titanium. Almost nobody with a sport bike keeps a stock muffler.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted October 6, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 6, 2016 14 minutes ago, jhenley17 said: I didn't notice how ridiculous it looked until you reposted that picture... yeah. I had a new can ordered within a week of buying my VFR, so I don't really pay attention to that, but for that same reason, I'm wondering why Honda and Suzuki both are bothering with titanium. Almost nobody with a sport bike keeps a stock muffler. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk My guess is that maybe they think less people will want to ditch a Ti muffler. However, looks and sound seem to have higher priority over what it's made of, so I don't see that being a reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted October 6, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 6, 2016 5 hours ago, Rogue_Biker said: V4's are notoriously heavy due to their additional valvetrain gear and serpentine exhaust systems. Negative... Its about the same because the short V4 crankshaft weights less than an I4 crankshaft... Other advantages the V4 sports over the I4... 1) Cube-like crankcase are inherently more rigid than the longer, beam-like case of an I4 engine 2)Short V4 crankshaft has less distance to travel and thus takes physical effort to change direction than I4... 3) 90º V4 has perfect primary balance, a great improvement over the buzzy, second-order vibration of an I4... 4)A V4 has less internal crank bearing friction and able to spin up faster and deliver more rear wheel HP... 5) A narrow V4 affords up to a 35% reduction in aerodynamic drag over the wide I4... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC36Rider Posted October 6, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 6, 2016 Drawbacks to the V4 as opposed to IL4 (not exhaustive and not necessarily in order of importance) : 1. Cost 2. More rearward weight distribution 3. Longer wheelbase (assuming equal swingarm length) ... Still, seems to me that the very best MotoGP engineers can't really make up their minds as to which is the superior architecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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