Member Contributer Switchblade Posted November 10, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2013 No, the current rush would affect every part of the stator NOT just the top part. It has to have something to do with the location of the stator . It did, look at the melted shilack over the whole stator, those were once individually coated wires, the entire wire coating melted and turned into one big paint job of melted epoxy. That took a lot of Heat to do that. It even melted the coating on the clean well oiled coils at the bottom. Thats the first clue of how much heat went through that thing. Na ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted November 10, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2013 I hope your right , been reading up on rewinding stator's, I think I'm gonna try it ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted November 10, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2013 ^^^^^ To that note..... I am looking for a few stator cores (pay it forward) to experiement with. If you a loose one that is gathering dust or your gonna throwout, please pm me. Thxz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 If there's a problem with stator wire insulation melting, couldn't they use some sort of silicone based insulation material that might stand up to much higher temperatures than what they are using?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted November 10, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2013 If there's a problem with stator wire insulation melting, couldn't they use some sort of silicone based insulation material that might stand up to much higher temperatures than what they are using?? Yeah but nobody makes it so you have to go it on your own .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 If there's a problem with stator wire insulation melting, couldn't they use some sort of silicone based insulation material that might stand up to much higher temperatures than what they are using?? http://www.powerwerx.com/wire-cable/magnet-wire.html this stuff say good to 392 degrees (oil flash burns at that temp), but inside a motor with 50,000 miles stuff breaks down. This could be the very stuff oem uses. I hear 17 or 18 guage is the standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted November 10, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2013 Not bad but there is a 220C wire also available. Gonna try to contact a local motor rewinding shop and see if they can sale me some . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 From the track dedicated RC30 thread. I have been absent from this thread for a while and glad to see the heat is still on... In 1000 km's time we will have completed 1st scheduled timeframe, or moreso distance, and will pull the cover to observe possible discoloration and general visual inspection plus multimeter readouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted January 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 I see now we are debating which came first: Chicken? Egg? Is the source of failure internal or externally generated? Does the insulting material not withstand the heat generated by the electrical phenomenon or is an inadecuate oil flow pattern not allowing proper cooling. I thought this was amply dealt with by denoting the fact that this KFC frickasee does not occur to any statistically significant degree on the 5th Gen and the 5th Gen does not have the vtec oil conduit which blocks the oil passage from the crank case. Although there are obviously further confusional factors involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I don't know, the 5th gen has so many noted RR issues(normally), you hear more about those, than the stators. they are weaker stators too, don't generate as much output as the 6th gen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted January 19, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 19, 2014 Could be a fine line on wattage output for that type of stator .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 It has not escaped my notice the new 8th gen has a significant drop in both stator output amps and the bike's demand (led headlights etc)... giving posible (unconfirmed) creedence to the idea the problema is internal, ie- the stator just produces too much heat... but I'm sure it's like a previous poster said... a mixture of A and B... it's frickseed chicken with fried eggs on the side!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted January 19, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 19, 2014 Probably a big reason why so many of the larger touring machines use an automotive style alternator i.e. a separate external component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted January 19, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 19, 2014 Probably a big reason why so many of the larger touring machines use an automotive style alternator i.e. a separate external component. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted January 19, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 19, 2014 The simple fix to this heat issue, is to add a couple of ports to the cover & an oil spray bar between the case & stator. then rig a small electric pump via an oil cooler to suck oil from the bottom of the case then through cooler, then back to stator spray bar. The more complex fix is exactly the same as above, but seal the stator area from the engine thus excluding engine oil & use a silicone fluid as the coolant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted January 20, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 20, 2014 Or simply consider the stator a consumable, and replace it every 40K or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted January 20, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 20, 2014 Or simply consider the stator a consumable, and replace it every 40K or so. Sad but true ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted January 20, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 20, 2014 Or simply consider the stator a consumable, and replace it every 40K or so. +1 - A whole lotta gyrations on this thread over an item that would need to be replaced twice tops in the lifetime of the bike. And if your running a series R/R, possibly you could forgo ever needing a replacement. Guess I've banged on that point enuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted January 20, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 20, 2014 While riding the dragon today a thought hit me is there away to space out the stator. In other words put a spacer between the cover and the block. On the 6th gens mite hit the side cowl. Of course the rotor will have to be shimmed to match the spacer. Any benefit . Love to hear some feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 we've already seen failures with series rr's , I look for well over 50,000 mile for an oem setup, each of the two stators on the vfr have exceed that. As long as I get over than number im not concerned about stator life, cause so many other model bikes get way less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted January 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 21, 2014 We've seen (2) series R/R failures. And at least that with a Ricks or OEM. 2 doesnt a trend make. - The point is still that a series R/R should extend the stator life. Agreed 50k on a stator is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted January 26, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 26, 2014 Any more thoughts ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arri Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 The people who more time use the VTEC region (above 7000 rpm) is who more BBQs celebrates . I.e.: people who ride a lot on track, fast in the road, etc: Auspañol , Kepa , Valen, etc. . People who ride calmly with motorcycle breaks less: el_Jau , me, etc. . This is statistical , but why ? The alternator is heated by two phenomena : 1 - . The copper losses , which depend on the intensity of the current supplied (Amperes) . 2 - . The iron losses, that are frequency dependent and this increases with rpm. I've taken some electrical measurements on the yellow wires from the output of the stator. This is the current flowing in said wires to different rpm ( = copper losses ) : Rpm -> E ( V ) -> I ( A) 1200 -> 12.7 -> 20 5000 - > 10 -> 30 7000 -> 10.2 -> 31 This is the frequency of the voltage and current generated by the 12 poles alternator at different rpm ( = the iron losses) rpm -> f (Hz ) 1200 -> 120 5000 -> 500 7000 -> 700 Nothing new: more rpm -> more heat that we have to evacuate of the alternator. The proposals that have been done here are very interesting. We'll see how they work. My new proposal to use "shunt regulator" is as follows : 1 - To Reduce power consumption 1/3 by using LED. 2 - To Use a battery of 14 Ah . 3 - To Install a monitoring system to measure and control, in real time onboard, the state of charge (SOC) of the battery: How about Arduino microcontrollers? 4 - The control system will disconnect the alternator from 100% to 60% of the SOC. The bike will run only with battery. This will allow the cooling of the windings in the stator: we will not have copper losses. 6 - When the SOC = 60 % , connect, with a relay, the alternator and charge the battery and feed the rest of the bike systems . The idea would be just to use the alternator at intervals and not all the time. To see who dares to develop Vss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted January 27, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 27, 2014 My new proposal is as follows : The idea would be just to use the alternator at intervals and not all the time. To see who dares to develop Vss Too late --- A series R/R does exactly that. - I'm done... btw - thanks for the measurements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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