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Going Mosfet And Delphi Metri Pack - Thoughts?


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r.e., thread here: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/75819-these-connectors-suck/#entry908907

I have decided to buy the following parts:

1. VFRness (from wiremybike.com)

2. Mosfet R/R (also from wiremybike.com)

3. Delphi Metri Pack 630 connectors for the junction between stator and R/R (http://delphi.com/manufacturers/cv/connection-systems/metri-pack-connectors/)

Thoughts? Anyone use the Delphi connectors? Anyone with thoughts on the Mosfet from wiremybike.com? From what I've read here and other boards, I seem to be taking the preferred approach.

I'm still not 100% on the health of the stator, but I can't make a final decision until I have the rest of the bike working well.

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Coming from someone with original oem RR, with over 100,000 miles. The oem RR is fine, just run an electrical appliance as a norm and the RR runs cool, no reason for anything else, from my experience.

my original stator went 56,000 miles, Im pushing around 50,000 with the second one, but my voltages are excellent(14.7 to 15v), and RR runs at worst luke warm to the nakid hand, just running an RD as a standard.

The first stator I never ran any appliances and I did notice the RR ran much hotter

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Test and correct the battery, wiring, and stator first. Then if all is known to be working and the voltage is still off then suspect the R/R. The R/R is difficult to verify and the other components are easy to test and more likely to fail. Like Spud the OEM R/R has worked fine for me.

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It's always seems kind of weird to me to install a really efficient R/R. It would seem that the more efficient the R/R, the more load the stator is exposed to, and the shorter the stators life. Sure the R/R is bolt proof, but at the cost of the stator? Maybe?

It seems like there's been quite a few members that upgrade their R/R's and then develop a bad stator. One has to wonder why. It's the whole chicken and egg thing.

I know the technology is new, but I believe a series R/R is the answer. I recently read where Polaris is now using them, so I believe the day is coming.

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Series or shunt it does matter they are prone to fail. I now have new Honda stator and Electrosports series type R\R. Just order the Eastern Bever connectors and Shindengen R\R.

Edited this I was wrong. I never have had a series type to fail.

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Having been following the R/R post for a while now, I -think I- understand that the stator producing current (or whatever is is called). The higher the revs, the more it produces

The R/R converts this to12v and any excess that is not used is "let go" by generating heat.

I have been running both headlights all of the time since I bought the bike, thus burning off more watts. (OEM only one H4 bulb is on)

So will that expalin why my OEM flatpack R/R + added heatsink is still going strong?

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Having been following the R/R post for a while now, I -think I- understand that the stator producing current (or whatever is is called). The higher the revs, the more it produces

The R/R converts this to12v and any excess that is not used is "let go" by generating heat.

I have been running both headlights all of the time since I bought the bike, thus burning off more watts. (OEM only one H4 bulb is on)

So will that expalin why my OEM flatpack R/R + added heatsink is still going strong?

Maybe for the R/R, not for the stator.

The VFR has 480 watt system. With a permanent magnet altenator and shunt regulator, the regulator shunts (or shorts) the stator to ground until the stator is loaded to the point that the voltage falls to the target voltage. The fact that you're adding load with the lights means the regulators job is a little easier, but the load on the stator is the same, 480 watts. Doesn't matter what you connect to the system, the stator sees 480 watts. The difference is how much current the regulator has to shunt to ground to make up the balance of the 480 watts and hold the voltage down. Example, if you had 300 watts of lights, the regulator would have to pass to ground (consume) 180 watts to 'hold' voltage down to target voltage. If you had 400 watts of lights, the regulators job got easier as it now only has to 'consume' 80 watts.

In theory, a series regulator switches the current path on and off really fast in such a way that the current allowed to pass, is enough to maintain the target voltage. Keep in mind, that if the stator is not connected to a load, it generates nothing. Using this method, the stator would only be asked to produce the amount power needed by the load. Using the same example, the 300 watts of lights, would only load the stator to 300 watts instead of the 480 watts with the shunt regulator. If you take it one step further and replace your lights with HID's and leds, you could drop your stator load to 200 watts. Just imagine how happy your stator would be.

A shunt regulator is akin to having a cruise control that pins the throttle open and maintains the speed by applying the brakes as needed to hold the speed down. A series regulator is akin to a cruise control that pulses the throttle until the target speed is met.

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Having been following the R/R post for a while now, I -think I- understand that the stator producing current (or whatever is is called). The higher the revs, the more it produces

The R/R converts this to12v and any excess that is not used is "let go" by generating heat.

I have been running both headlights all of the time since I bought the bike, thus burning off more watts. (OEM only one H4 bulb is on)

So will that expalin why my OEM flatpack R/R + added heatsink is still going strong?

Maybe for the R/R, not for the stator.

The VFR has 480 watt system. With a permanent magnet altenator and shunt regulator, the regulator shunts (or shorts) the stator to ground until the stator is loaded to the point that the voltage falls to the target voltage. The fact that you're adding load with the lights means the regulators job is a little easier, but the load on the stator is the same, 480 watts. Doesn't matter what you connect to the system, the stator sees 480 watts. The difference is how much current the regulator has to shunt to ground to make up the balance of the 480 watts and hold the voltage down. Example, if you had 300 watts of lights, the regulator would have to pass to ground (consume) 180 watts to 'hold' voltage down to target voltage. If you had 400 watts of lights, the regulators job got easier as it now only has to 'consume' 80 watts.

In theory, a series regulator switches the current path on and off really fast in such a way that the current allowed to pass, is enough to maintain the target voltage. Keep in mind, that if the stator is not connected to a load, it generates nothing. Using this method, the stator would only be asked to produce the amount power needed by the load. Using the same example, the 300 watts of lights, would only load the stator to 300 watts instead of the 480 watts with the shunt regulator. If you take it one step further and replace your lights with HID's and leds, you could drop your stator load to 200 watts. Just imagine how happy your stator would be.

A shunt regulator is akin to having a cruise control that pins the throttle open and maintains the speed by applying the brakes as needed to hold the speed down. A series regulator is akin to a cruise control that pulses the throttle until the target speed is met.

+1 and the real killer is the heat that the stator produces inside of hot running engine.

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The series are probably burning out cause they are switching on an off so much, there's really not alot of leeway to keep the battery charged, it runs down fairly quick without a solid sustained charge.

Course I'm still waiting to see a set up out do the oem, thats post 50,000 mile reliability.

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Having been following the R/R post for a while now, I -think I- understand that the stator producing current (or whatever is is called). The higher the revs, the more it produces

The R/R converts this to12v and any excess that is not used is "let go" by generating heat.

I have been running both headlights all of the time since I bought the bike, thus burning off more watts. (OEM only one H4 bulb is on)

So will that expalin why my OEM flatpack R/R + added heatsink is still going strong?

Maybe for the R/R, not for the stator.

The VFR has 480 watt system. With a permanent magnet altenator and shunt regulator, the regulator shunts (or shorts) the stator to ground until the stator is loaded to the point that the voltage falls to the target voltage. The fact that you're adding load with the lights means the regulators job is a little easier, but the load on the stator is the same, 480 watts. Doesn't matter what you connect to the system, the stator sees 480 watts. The difference is how much current the regulator has to shunt to ground to make up the balance of the 480 watts and hold the voltage down. Example, if you had 300 watts of lights, the regulator would have to pass to ground (consume) 180 watts to 'hold' voltage down to target voltage. If you had 400 watts of lights, the regulators job got easier as it now only has to 'consume' 80 watts.

In theory, a series regulator switches the current path on and off really fast in such a way that the current allowed to pass, is enough to maintain the target voltage. Keep in mind, that if the stator is not connected to a load, it generates nothing. Using this method, the stator would only be asked to produce the amount power needed by the load. Using the same example, the 300 watts of lights, would only load the stator to 300 watts instead of the 480 watts with the shunt regulator. If you take it one step further and replace your lights with HID's and leds, you could drop your stator load to 200 watts. Just imagine how happy your stator would be.

A shunt regulator is akin to having a cruise control that pins the throttle open and maintains the speed by applying the brakes as needed to hold the speed down. A series regulator is akin to a cruise control that pulses the throttle until the target speed is met.

+1 and the real killer is the heat that the stator produces inside of hot running engine.

Agreed.... and here's some interesting photos on the subject.

Capture1

Capture2

Capture3

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The series are probably burning out cause they are switching on an off so much, there's really not alot of leeway to keep the battery charged, it runs down fairly quick without a solid sustained charge.

Course I'm still waiting to see a set up out do the oem, thats post 50,000 mile reliability.

Switching is not a problem, we're talking solid state. I think Tightwad was right in that the Compufire couldn't handle the high RPM since it was developed for Harleys. Stator voltage increases with engine RPM and a common spec voltage for capacitors is 63 volts. 63 volts is right at the VFR's top end output.

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i dont know about the built for Harley thing since I dont know the spec's of componets that were used but the BMW FS800 boys like the Compufire R\R.

Actually CandyRedRC46 had a problem with his Compufire where everything was fine until he got to 9000 RPM, at which point the voltage would go up to 16-17 volts. He called Compufire and they told him that it was designed and built for thier stators in Harleys.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/66106-just-installed-a-compufire-series-regulator/page-6

The red line for the FS800 is 8500 RPM. When you search the web, the bike owners that are having real good luck with Compufires, are owners that have bike with red lines less 10k, mostly 2 cylinders.

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...

A shunt regulator is akin to having a cruise control that pins the throttle open and maintains the speed by applying the brakes as needed to hold the speed down. A series regulator is akin to a cruise control that pulses the throttle until the target speed is met.

Best analogy so far for the way it works...consider it stolen. :beer:

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i dont know about the built for Harley thing since I dont know the spec's of componets that were used but the BMW FS800 boys like the Compufire R\R.

Actually CandyRedRC46 had a problem with his Compufire where everything was fine until he got to 9000 RPM, at which point the voltage would go up to 16-17 volts. He called Compufire and they told him that it was designed and built for thier stators in Harleys.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/66106-just-installed-a-compufire-series-regulator/page-6

The red line for the FS800 is 8500 RPM. When you search the web, the bike owners that are having real good luck with Compufires, are owners that have bike with red lines less 10k, mostly 2 cylinders.

BMW also modified there rotor for more air cooling(drilled bigger holes), I like that idea.

i dont know about the built for Harley thing since I dont know the spec's of componets that were used but the BMW FS800 boys like the Compufire R\R.

Actually CandyRedRC46 had a problem with his Compufire where everything was fine until he got to 9000 RPM, at which point the voltage would go up to 16-17 volts. He called Compufire and they told him that it was designed and built for thier stators in Harleys.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/66106-just-installed-a-compufire-series-regulator/page-6

The red line for the FS800 is 8500 RPM. When you search the web, the bike owners that are having real good luck with Compufires, are owners that have bike with red lines less 10k, mostly 2 cylinders.

BMW also modified there rotor for more air cooling(drilled bigger holes), I like that idea.

So did he know it designed for Harley ?

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Never had a shunt type to fail, have had a OEM to fail.

OEM is shunt-type. And I've had two fail. :wacko:

Ciao,

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Never had a shunt type to fail, have had a OEM to fail.

OEM is shunt-type. And I've had two fail. :wacko:

Ciao,

I'm def a series R/R convert and running the CF. My bike noticably runs cooler with it. - Agreed it was designed for Harleys and might have higher rev issues. But yet I have only heard of 2 of them eat it. Statistically that doesnt a trend make. Maybe after a longer period we'll get a better idea. (If you have heard of any more, chime in plz)

- Stirring the pot.... Have we heard of more than 2 Rick's R/R die? (I'm guessing yes)

---- More than 2 OEMs? See above ---- def yes or these threads wouldnt exist.

-- Shindengen FH020AA --- Havent heard of one yet.

Over the longer haul, when Shindengen finalizes their new Series R/Rs, those probly will be a top choice for replacement considering the company will have

to do a full validation before sale to a manufacturer.

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Never had a shunt type to fail, have had a OEM to fail.

OEM is shunt-type. And I've had two fail. :wacko:

Ciao,

I'm def a series R/R convert and running the CF. My bike noticably runs cooler with it. - Agreed it was designed for Harleys and might have higher rev issues. But yet I have only heard of 2 of them eat it. Statistically that doesnt a trend make. Maybe after a longer period we'll get a better idea. (If you have heard of any more, chime in plz)

- Stirring the pot.... Have we heard of more than 2 Rick's R/R die? (I'm guessing yes)

---- More than 2 OEMs? See above ---- def yes or these threads wouldnt exist.

-- Shindengen FH020AA --- Havent heard of one yet.

Over the longer haul, when Shindengen finalizes their new Series R/Rs, those probly will be a top choice for replacement considering the company will have

to do a full validation before sale to a manufacturer.

GOOD POINT ...

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A lot of people look at this the wrong way. The stator, the R/R, and the wires/connectors between them are all one system. If you replace the R/R with something more efficient, you'll overload the stator. If you replace the stator with one with larger winding, you will more than likely increase the output potential, overloading the R/R. If you replace both with upgrades, your just making more heat. In theory, the series R/R fixes all of that.

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Never had a shunt type to fail, have had a OEM to fail.

OEM is shunt-type. And I've had two fail. :wacko:

Ciao,

I'm def a series R/R convert and running the CF. My bike noticably runs cooler with it. - Agreed it was designed for Harleys and might have higher rev issues. But yet I have only heard of 2 of them eat it. Statistically that doesnt a trend make. Maybe after a longer period we'll get a better idea. (If you have heard of any more, chime in plz)

- Stirring the pot.... Have we heard of more than 2 Rick's R/R die? (I'm guessing yes)

---- More than 2 OEMs? See above ---- def yes or these threads wouldnt exist.

-- Shindengen FH020AA --- Havent heard of one yet.

Over the longer haul, when Shindengen finalizes their new Series R/Rs, those probly will be a top choice for replacement considering the company will have

to do a full validation before sale to a manufacturer.

GOOD POINT ...

I believe I have warrantied 2 Ricks MOSFET R/Rs. I think the issue is actually with the bike's grounds. Bad ground kills internal components in the R/R which often leads to external signs of failure at the next weakest spot, the stator connector. If you hardwire the stator connector you are just pushing the problem to the stator itself. Jon is right...the system as a whole needs to be maintained, starting with the grounds.

Spud is one of the few who hasn't had R/R failures. He also maintains his wiring quite well which prevents it. The MOSFET R/R (and the Series R/R) are both hardier and can do their job even without the best wiring....of course if a VFRness is installed the grounds have been increased and that often plays a role.

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well, VFRNess is in the mail. Delphi connectors are also in the mail.

i'm itching to ride again! but all these things have to come to me in Oz, which if it goes POST will require the same magic Dorothy needed to find her way.

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I for one believe its the design of the charging system. No way to cool the stator that's inside of a 220 degree running engine. I think the Germans are trying to cool there stator by drilling larger size holes, time will tell but from what I have read the newer models with the larger cooling holes have not had a failure.

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Even bike stators that dont run anywhere near the heat of the vfr, their stators burn the same way. and normally much quicker. That to me rules out the engine heat factor. Really oil flow IMO, is the most important, as all stators burn at the top first, its not unusual to see a totally clean bottom and black charred top.

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