At a crossroads

[jaimev34]

For a while I've been debating if I should continue riding. I love it to no end, but I've had some spills and am very aware of my mortality. I used to be one to test my limits and go very fast on the twisties. I was careful, but careless at the same time. Now, I've slowed down and am very cautious. I'm mindful of my surroundings at all times and ride at my pace. However, no matter how careful I am, I can't deny the fact that the risk of injury/death is still there. We can't control what others do in their cars and we can't always avoid the obstacles on the road. My fear is not death or breaking an arm or leg. My fear is paralysis or brain damage and being a burden on my girlfriend or parents for the rest of my life and much of theirs. I feel like it's selfish for me to continue because it's not just my future I could potentially ruin, but that of others.

A buddy of mine, who's a nurse, just started riding. He's recently had two motorcycle accident victims in his wing. One guy's sleeping bag unraveled from the back of his bike and got caught in the chain and sent him flying. As a result, he has severe brain trauma and he's pretty much a vegetable now and will be cared for by his parents for the rest of his life. My buddy cared for this guy and still wants to ride. Does he think there's no chance that'll happen to him?

There are a ton of other examples - everyone knows someone who knows someone, or at least have heard of someone, who's had a bad wreck and been severely affected by it.

I'm not writing this to convince others to not ride, but to find out how we can continue riding knowing that we can severely negatively affect the lives of those who surround us, not just our own.

What do you guys think?

[SEBSPEED]

In as much as motorcycling is a personal experience, it is also a personal choice. If you think you'll be happier in the long run without a motorcycle, then go ahead and get rid of it.

After your girlfriend becomes your wife and you grow old together, will you look back and say "boy I'm glad I gave up that motorcycle, because I might have become a vegetable"?

[gll429]

your more likely to hit your head in the tub and get gorked that way..

in fact.. i remember a study at temple university hospital..

most brain injuries happen in car crashes were MUCH more sever than on bikes.. as motorcyclist with GOOD HELMETS.. not the stupid 'beanie' skull caps.. as those are just bug catchers.. she marked those rider as "no helmet"

[DougFromIndy]

I got into a wreck on 9/01/10 on my way to work. It totalled the bike and I was hurting for about 6 weeks, it killed my fall riding season.

An old man pulled right out in front of me like a damn deer, he blocked the entire road, there was no escape route. Even the best rider would have crashed.

I lowsided, slid down the road about 40 feet, got rashed up, the bike went first and bounced into the drivers side door of a Lincoln Town Car. BTW- I was in full HI-VIS gear.

I got knocked out for a second and woke up in a pile of broken plastic. I was really angry but was an apologetic old man who had health problems, should not have been driving.

What I felt at scene was pure adreneline, I jumped up, glad to be alive and moving, yes in pain but I am picking up my damn bike and MOVING FORWARD.

It was a BAD moment, A few bad seconds, yes I could have...like getting married, for better or worse...guess what..most is worse...I thought about my job, it sucks, why I am wasting my life

working and commuting in traffic...I am selling my life for a paycheck. What are my best moments? Riding, living...I exchanged info with the idiot, rode a completely mangled bike to corner, called for help.

Another good moment, hey my lunch is OK on back rack, it made it.....I sat on the curb bleeding and watching firetrucks and ambulances heading to scene....I made it through and so did a cold can of pop.

Its a risk and a damn big one. Do not fool yourself...everytime you ride you are putting EVERYTHING on the line. Its a personal decision that only you can make. There is no right or wrong answer.

I made the decision to cut back on commuting in heavy traffic but TO CONTINUE RIDING and in fact to RIDE MORE THAN EVER. Its my choice and I ride for these MOMENTS....Moments like the NIN lyrics

"This is the only time I really feel alive" Here is my decision after the accident, many asked "Are you going to stop riding?" HELL NO

Better do the good stuff....NOW http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=fixT6utvg0M&feature=related

[jaimev34]

In as much as motorcycling is a personal experience, it is also a personal choice. If you think you'll be happier in the long run without a motorcycle, then go ahead and get rid of it.

After your girlfriend becomes your wife and you grow old together, will you look back and say "boy I'm glad I gave up that motorcycle, because I might have become a vegetable"?

I don't think I'd be happier by not riding, but I'd be happier not being a vegetable or paralyzed.

I think riding ceases to be a personal choice when it affects others. What I mean by this is, one makes the personal decision to continue riding though it's dangerous, and his/her loved ones are left with the baggage if something happens. Seems selfish to me.

[Rice]

There is a ton of titanium, broken bones and stories amongst the members of this site.

I have stories of my own (totaled bike, long recovery, etc...) and have been contemplating the same thoughts.

As everyone will tell you, it is a personal choice.

I chose to continue riding. Although not as fast or as risky.

To me, once the risk becomes a calculated one and not just risk, it becomes manageable. It's all about walking a fine line between your responsibilities and your life. If your line is too difficult to navigate, than perhaps you should not continue riding. After all, if you keep thinking of what might happen during each ride, you are not really enjoying yourself and thus defeating the purpose of riding.

I have found a way of turning those thought off, or rather of locking them in the back of my mind, far enough that I can enjoy the ride.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

One thing I would caution you against is making this decision under pressure from the people who care about you.

Remember, that you have one life to live (I think) and if you don't enjoy it than what's the point?

[jaimev34]

your more likely to hit your head in the tub and get gorked that way..

in fact.. i remember a study at temple university hospital..

most brain injuries happen in car crashes were MUCH more sever than on bikes.. as motorcyclist with GOOD HELMETS.. not the stupid 'beanie' skull caps.. as those are just bug catchers.. she marked those rider as "no helmet"

Don't know about that. Plus, what about spinal cord injuries and paralysis? I fractured my t9 vertebra in a wreck almost 2 years ago. Others in similar situations haven't been as lucky as me and are confined to wheel chairs.

[The mailman]

I've read three or four of these posts recently and must admit to the same thoughts occasionally. However, I know myself and have figured out that I go through this every winter when the weather is crappy, the roads are crappy, and I haven't been on the bike in 6 weeks. Thoughts of selling it all and just getting into something else haunt me every Jan - Mar.. I also know that the first warm day after the roads are all cleaned up and I hop back on, the feeling I get is irreplaceable. Nothing in the world has ever made me feel the joy of a warm afternoon ride. I have also slowed WAY DOWN over the past three years. I'm approaching 50 before too long and the mortality issue creeps in along with the fact that we almost have our daughters raised and I can see real "couple time" just around the bend - something I don't want messed up by being disabled in any way. With all of that in mind, it comes down to a personal deciscion and every year I continue to overcome the winter blahs, climb back on and forget all of my problems.

[jaimev34]

There is a ton of titanium, broken bones and stories amongst the members of this site.

I have stories of my own (totaled bike, long recovery, etc...) and have been contemplating the same thoughts.

As everyone will tell you, it is a personal choice.

I chose to continue riding. Although not as fast or as risky.

To me, once the risk becomes a calculated one and not just risk, it becomes manageable. It's all about walking a fine line between your responsibilities and your life. If your line is too difficult to navigate, than perhaps you should not continue riding. After all, if you keep thinking of what might happen during each ride, you are not really enjoying yourself and thus defeating the purpose of riding.

I have found a way of turning those thought off, or rather of locking them in the back of my mind, far enough that I can enjoy the ride.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

One thing I would caution you against is making this decision under pressure from the people who care about you.

Remember, that you have one life to live (I think) and if you don't enjoy it than what's the point?

I agree with what you write, but one thing that's not being addressed is how you'd feel about getting into a wreck serious enough to paralyze/cause severe brain trauma and change the lives of those around you. Imagine your life now. Now, imagine your life if you could not work anymore, if your wife/parents had to take care of your most basic things, if you couldn't even wipe your own ass or feed yourself. That's what worries me, not dying. If I die, I'm dead, and although it's possible I'll be missed, I wouldn't be a burden.

Furthermore, it's one thing to be a burden because of an unforeseen accident like slipping in your tub and hitting your head, but to knowingly risk becoming a burden because you like to ride a motorcycle and "you've only got one life to live," sounds selfish.

Is it not? And I'm guilty of this too, BTW.

[jaimev34]

I've been thinking about this for a long time and I've come to the conclusion that the only way one can continue to ride is to think something bad is not going to happen to him/her, especially with all the evidence of how dangerous our sport is. But this is a false sense of security. There have already been comments about slowing way down to mitigate for the risk, but sometimes, no matter how slow you go, something bad can happen. Pretending that nothing bad is going to happen, or making comparisons about the dangers of relatively benign activities that can (very seldom) go wrong, such as bathing or walking the dog, will not protect us, and when/if something bad happens, are we okay with it changing the lives of those around us? I've come to the conclusion that I'm not okay with that. My girlfriend (of 6 years I may add - she'd already be my wife if we believe in that traditional stuff) has been very supportive about my riding, even though I know she always worries about me. I just don't think it's fair for her to be saddled with me if something bad were to happen. She says she'd take care of me if something were to happen, and I sincerely believe her, but isn't it effed up that I would put her through that, or that any of us would put the ones we love through that?

Bad thing about me not riding is I don't get to do something I love. Good thing is that a lot of farkles will soon be for sale.

[Monk]

your more likely to hit your head in the tub and get gorked that way..

in fact.. i remember a study at temple university hospital..

most brain injuries happen in car crashes were MUCH more sever than on bikes.. as motorcyclist with GOOD HELMETS.. not the stupid 'beanie' skull caps.. as those are just bug catchers.. she marked those rider as "no helmet"

Don't know about that. Plus, what about spinal cord injuries and paralysis? I fractured my t9 vertebra in a wreck almost 2 years ago. Others in similar situations haven't been as lucky as me and are confined to wheel chairs.

These young men that go to war think they'll serve and come home ok, or be killed, most don't think about spinal cord injuries and paralysis, etc. And there are more of these than the ones that die. That's why it's our young peeps that continue to serve with valor for our country. On the other side of the coin are people that couldn't service for any reason, they'd have a mental break-down. There are Police and firemen that choice their professions for the same reason that our servicemen do, and all these people could have picked a safe job, like working in an office in the Twin Towers of New York.

Be it service men, or police/fire/bomb disposal, whatever, it's a choice we most make, it's there or it isn't. Same goes with our choices of recreation.

It comes down to what you love to do in life, and learning how to do it well, or not do it if you can't do it well. But there is always the risk. People that don't ride ask why we do, just tell them a dog can't tell you why they like to have their head out the car window, but there they are every time they go riding.

My best advice is to learn how to to a better rider, wear the gear, or not ride at all. We all(me) go through this from time to time. But having a friend that is exposed to veggies is going to wear on your mind. Tell him not to talk about his job around you, it's like these people in cars.... every time they get a chance they're going to tell you about some gruesome accident.... Usually because they're afraid to ride, so they want to rationalize their choice by trying to convince others to follow their footsteps.

But trying to live you life to suit the people around you (loved ones), you may as well be a vegetable anyway.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[Monk]

One more thing.... You don't have to be hurt to become a vegetable, it can happen from a normal life, nerve disorder, Alzheimers,etc.

I think about this more than I want to, because since I've retired and moved back to my home town it seems like everyone I grew up with are dying all around me, and watching my Dad(94) slowly deteriorate, having done nothing more than play golf his whole life. At some point you either die quick or you don't.

[VFRSuperfreak]

/edit

It was a BAD moment, A few bad seconds, yes I could have...like getting married, for better or worse...guess what..most is worse...I thought about my job, it sucks, why I am wasting my life

working and commuting in traffic...I am selling my life for a paycheck. What are my best moments? Riding, living...

+1 with two gloved thumbs up on that. Couldn't have said it better. We are here for more than just be conduit for cash. Get it, pay rent, go get some more.

Not me.

Besides, as posted earlier here; Non-riders also die. And sometimes trapped in a fireball without escape.

For a while I've been debating if I should continue riding. I love it to no end, but I've had some spills and am very aware of my mortality. I used to be one to test my limits and go very fast on the twisties. I was careful, but careless at the same time. Now, I've slowed down and am very cautious.

part 1 -Not you!

part 2 -Cautious is good. Paranoid is not; that'll get you killed as quick as inattention will.

My fear is paralysis or brain damage and being a burden on my girlfriend or parents for the rest of my life and much of theirs. I feel like it's selfish for me to continue because it's not just my future I could potentially ruin, but that of others.

part 3 -Why are you thinking worst case scenario? Will you really care if you're attached to a machine and can't even think? I was *almost* there, unrelated to a bike accident. It sucks, not being able to move and dependent on everyone for the simplest thing. But really, what are the odds? How could it ever happen if you don't attach loose crap to your bike?

-This actually happened to my brother; a cleaning rag got caught in the chain and it snapped the front sprocket bolt (whatever that's called), he skidded to a panic stop, and got off the 'blade as if he had stopped on purpose. I've seen people survive weirder crap than a catastrophic failure.

A buddy of mine, who's a nurse, just started riding. He's recently had two motorcycle accident victims in his wing. One guy's sleeping bag unraveled from the back of his bike and got caught in the chain and sent him flying. As a result, he has severe brain trauma and he's pretty much a vegetable now and will be cared for by his parents for the rest of his life. My buddy cared for this guy and still wants to ride. Does he think there's no chance that'll happen to him?

There are a ton of other examples - everyone knows someone who knows someone, or at least have heard of someone, who's had a bad wreck and been severely affected by it.

Yep. Ont's Kieran Crawford, Mex's Paco Avelar, NY's Fast Eddie, to name a few. (and just like Kieran's obituary says "Please be careful out there. Kieran was a very good rider and fresh out of FAST riding school where he was awarded the "Top Rider" award.

So, long story short; I live 10 lives every day I get out and ride. I am 100% sure that if one of these days my number is up, I will die with a huuge smile. How could I stay away from riding? why would I be scared of departing after living soo many lives? Honest... Riding isn't for everyone, but I'm sure I could not stand it for long if I couldn't or didn't ride. I know. I've already tried.

[spud786]

I'm not writing this to convince others to not ride, but to find out how we can continue riding knowing that we can severely negatively affect the lives of those who surround us, not just our own.

What do you guys think?

Look at how far you've progressed, Someone that doesnt crash learning from the beggining is more likely to be involved in horrific crashes later on, cause their speed and confidence continues to build unchecked. Thats why those times I've seen people with 6 months experience running 100 mph sport bikes with great success, they have no clue, The reaction time, the vision , finesse and 6th sense needd when that time comes. That includes track riders that start out with early success, the longer they go unchecked, the bigger the crash.

New street ridiers also have the double wammy of little bike control skills on top of no traffic read skills or tactics, thats a double negative. Add in speed and what chance do they really have, not to eat it big at some point. House of cards plain and simple.

But you still have 20 year guys getting eaten, were they just lucky, or did they never learn to test their threats?

[Dutchy]

Riding with fear/distraction is not a good thing.

Hang up the helmet for 2011, post up in a year's time how you liked it.

PS: not aiming at anyone but let's use the word paraplegic, not "veggie" :fing02:

[Guest]

I had a major crash six years ago--hit a deer, had 21 bone fractures and a punctured lung. Physically, I have not been the same since--I used to be a devoted runner, but now can barely manage to jog a few miles a week. As a result of nerve damage, I have very little feeling in my right hand, which makes delicate tasks difficult. Regardless, I never considered giving up riding. Sure, I think about the possibility of wrecking again, and it makes me cringe to recall the pain of the accident and of the PT during rehab. However, I don't think about the negative stuff while I'm riding. It's not that I have to block out the negative thoughts--they just don't enter my mind.

Riding has always given me great pleasure. Even when droning on the slab it's like meditation--I feel alive, at peace and happy. However, if thoughts of wrecking again and dealing with the pain and injury kept entering my mind while I was riding, I wouldn't treasure riding as I do now. I would probably be doing what you are doing--contemplating parking the bike.

As you already know, regardless of what any of us say, this is something that you have to work out on your own, maybe with input from your GF. You need to weigh the costs and benefits. Perhaps you just need to walk away from riding for a year or two--only you can decide.

Good luck working out the dilemma,

Jon

[Guest]

I too say if you can't ride relaxed and enjoy it, hang it up for awhile.

Something else to consider on the long term care issue. Make sure you have a signed health care proxy filled out and that your wishes are documented ("living will"). Good pratice for everyone.

[rangemaster]

I too say if you can't ride relaxed and enjoy it, hang it up for awhile.

Something else to consider on the long term care issue. Make sure you have a signed health care proxy filled out and that your wishes are documented ("living will"). Good pratice for everyone.

Excellent advise. AND if you are worried about being a medical/financial burden to family/loved ones, look into a medical rider on your insurance policy.

[superfunkomatic]

There is danger all around us every day. Motorcycle riding is inherently dangerous and risky, but then so is driving your car. We can't control the behaviours of others around us so there is always a chance that someone else will cause our accident. Unfortunately, statistics show that riders are often their own worst enemies and increase the odds of accidents and fatalities - riding over your limits, riding without proper gear, riding with excessive speed.

I think we have to separate the macho 'burn the edge' type riding from the street and confine it to the track. After having a colossal wipeout in 2004 and lengthy rehab (which has never really been back to normal) I ride to go places not to see how fast I can go or how close to 'removing chicken strips' I can get - just to get there!

Quitting motorcycling as a hobby is no different that quitting any other - move on and find other things to fill your time. Otherwise, work on enjoying your bike as safely as you can.

Good luck with your decision.

[V-FORE]

Having only been in three minor accidents, (not hurt just broken ribs on the first) I have thought about giving up, due to pressure from others, then I really thought about it. 3 accidents(there is a reason they are called accidents) They were not intentional some times Stuff Happens. Just on my VFR I have put 55K on her. To me in my 35 years of riding that is nothing. When I trip or do something else am I going to stop walking?? I know that it is a personal decision but to think that something horrible is going to happen is just Bad thinking IMHO, I do not worry about things I have no control over, I find that on a Motorcycle I have control over myself so I view riding as though everyone else is out to get me. It is amazing how our senses can help us with riding, for me it is although I am one with the universe & can see what others are going to do (switch lanes without looking behind or beside them) before they do it.. I actually feel safer commuting on two wheels then four :fing02:

Good luck with your decision Jamie!

Gary

[Ryanme17]

I feel or felt much the same way after crashing my bike at Tmac 09, but I'm glad I didn't give up on riding. You can read the thread Here.

[flavadave]

I enjoy riding, so I ride.

I could just as well choke on a bagel.

[Infidel]

IMHO, I think you are coming to that point in life where everyone in one way or another realizes just how short life really is. Some call it "Mid Life Crisis" (depending on your age) and others call it a "Wake Up Call". Either way you call it, welcome to the club!!! :biggrin:

Having said that, this is certainly not a bad thing. Life is a gift and we only get one shot at it. In the end, one has to evaluate their own life and decide on what is best for them and their loved ones. (wife / girlfriend / ect)

As a combat veteran of 21 Army years, I can definately relate to what you are going through. Here is my take...

We can all go at a moment's notice doing anything. I watched my best friend die in combat in Iraq and I wear a braclet each day I get up to remind me of the fact that life is a gift and I will not take it for granted ever again. But my life certainly has had its share of sad stories outside of combat related deaths.

For example. My father passed away a few months ago. How? He fell while doing the laundry and hit his head. When he went to the couch, my mom went in the kitchen to get him some ice for his head and a drink. He was talking to her and everything. When she came back in to give him the ice, he was passed away on the couch. It was that quick. No warning. No tell tale signs. Gone. I did not get a chance to say goodbye. I did not get a chance to tell him just how much I really loved him. Now, granted he was 75 years old... but still consider that. How many of us think we are going to die while doing the laundry? Life is wierd like that.

The point?

Not sure really. I guess you can take my story and apply it to your situation really. In the end you have to do what you feel is right. I say keep riding, enjoy life, forget your worries and let it all hang out. You can ride safely. Look at me. I am just now starting to do the things you claim hurt you. I, too, share the same fears as you do as I have a thread about it. But, GOD I feel so alive on that bike! When I am out cruising on my Harley, I feel so good. I come home and share my ride with my wife and kids and they are happy for me. I LOVE IT!!!! I just feel bad that I missed so many years traveling around the globe in the Army and never got a chance to ride like I do now.

But like I said... it is a choice we all have to make on our own. You have to do what is right for you.

Good luck sir!!! /salute :fing02:

[jaimev34]

I appreciate all the thoughtful posts and words of encouragement, but nobody has addressed the real topic at hand: how you feel about drastically changing the lives of those around you, if Zeus forbid, something bad happens. When I ride, I'm not thinking about bad things happening. I'm actually enjoying the ride. As others have mentioned, it's a kind of meditative state - while thoroughly aware of my surrounding, I'm simultaneously thinking about life. It's wonderful. However, no matter how wonderful riding is, an no matter how much it completes my life, there is a very ugly reality: that something really bad can happen in a split second. It's already happened to so many of us, but we continue to ride because we love it and because we can. Some of us have nerve damage as a result of wrecks. Some of us can't walk as well as we used to. Some of us have aches and pains that make life a little more difficult, but we continue to ride because we love it. Few people, other than riders, understand how/why we'd continue riding if we've already crashed, it's kind of anti-Darwinian (self preservation).

But that's not what this thread is about. It's about how riding affects the lives of those who love us, and whether it's fair to them. I don't think responses like "it's a personal decision" answer this. If I could ride the rest of my life and only risk breaking bones or death, and not becoming a paraplegic, I'd have no problem riding (even though dying from a wreck would devastate my loved ones, which is selfish too, not to mention that breaking bones could affect my ability to perform my job, which could affect my career, which is also selfish). Furthermore, paralysis and severe brain trauma as a result of a crash are not that rare. It's a very realy possiblity and that's why I'm discussing it.

[Infidel]

I appreciate all the thoughtful posts and words of encouragement, but nobody has addressed the real topic at hand: how you feel about drastically changing the lives of those around you, if Zeus forbid, something bad happens. When I ride, I'm not thinking about bad things happening. I'm actually enjoying the ride. As others have mentioned, it's a kind of meditative state - while thoroughly aware of my surrounding, I'm simultaneously thinking about life. It's wonderful. However, no matter how wonderful riding is, an no matter how much it completes my life, there is a very ugly reality: that something really bad can happen in a split second. It's already happened to so many of us, but we continue to ride because we love it and because we can. Some of us have nerve damage as a result of wrecks. Some of us can't walk as well as we used to. Some of us have aches and pains that make life a little more difficult, but we continue to ride because we love it. Few people, other than riders, understand how/why we'd continue riding if we've already crashed, it's kind of anti-Darwinian (self preservation).

But that's not what this thread is about. It's about how riding affects the lives of those who love us, and whether it's fair to them. I don't think responses like "it's a personal decision" answer this. If I could ride the rest of my life and only risk breaking bones or death, and not becoming a paraplegic, I'd have no problem riding (even though dying from a wreck would devastate my loved ones, which is selfish too, not to mention that breaking bones could affect my ability to perform my job, which could affect my career, which is also selfish). Furthermore, paralysis and severe brain trauma as a result of a crash are not that rare. It's a very realy possiblity and that's why I'm discussing it.

OK I will give it a shot. Just my view... take it with a grain of salt.

Riding affects my family in a positive way. They see the smile on my face and they know how happy it makes me. They see me sitting on this computer typing on these forums and my wife is greatful that I am happy after all the shit I have been through in my life. She and I both know the score. We both know what can happen each time I step out on that bike. We also know it can happen in other ways. I work in Iraq where I can die at any time. But, if I die supporting my family then so be it. It is not a shame to die doing something you love.

But, living in fear about it is no way to live. Sounds like you need to stop riding and reevaluate your life. Either that or you are getting mad pressure from family about it. Yeah, my wife would rather not me be a veg. from an accident, but we are not going to live our lives in fear about it. She is not going to ask me to give up what I love at the off chance I am going to get smashed in an accident. Fortunately, I have never had to go through what you have on a motorcycle. But, it worries me to death. (see my thread) But my family won't ask me to give it up and I won't at the fear my wife will be without me. She supports me and so does the rest of my family.