Scary Passing

[hlf]

I was riding with a friend in the mountains of WV this past weekend, and we had a pretty scary moment. This was a situation that I've not really seen described before, and I was wondering how others on the BB would handle it.

First, we're both pretty experienced riders and have ridden thousands of miles together without incident. We ride pretty quickly, so do a lot of passing over the course of the day. I was leading this day. My buddy often follows me when I pass a vehicle, but certainly makes his own decisions about the safety of following or waiting for a better (safer) opportunity.

It was the end of a long day (lots of miles, cold temperatures, and lots of mixed wet/dry pavement), so we were both probably more fatiqued than we realized. I came up behind a pickup and when a reasonable straight section of road came up, I pulled out to pass. Unfortunately, it was an up hill section of road and I hadn't bothered to downshift, so my acceleration was limited. With a car coming in the left lane, I decided to abort the pass (something I need to do very rarely) and stood on the brakes, planning to pull back in behind the pickup. Before moving back right behind the pickup, I noticed a headlight in my mirror rapidly closing from behind; my buddy had downshifted his R1 a couple of gears and had really accelerated to follow me around. I stayed in the left lane, and my buddy passed between me and the pickup probably doing 40+ MPH faster than me at that point. If I had pulled right, he would have tail ended me going significantly faster.

Talking with my friend afterward, he said that he had seen me pull out to pass, but then focused on the pickup we were passing and the car in the oncoming lane, and kind of lost track of me. When he realized I had braked, he was going a lot faster and he could only try to make the opening between me and the pickup we were passsing.

My initial inclination is to say that the following rider is responsible for paying attention to the leading rider, but I also have to say that I might easily have done exactly the same thing my buddy did if I was following. Frankly, I think I was pretty tired at the end of the day and probably misjudged the pass; it was probably safely makeable or my buddy would not have thought he could follow safely.

So, how do we prevent a repeat? Can you suggest riding rules to avoid an unpleasant outcome?

I suspect we both did not fully appreciate that our fatigue. I made a bad pass decision, and, potentially, a worse abort decision. My friend didn't pay enough attention to me during the pass.

Your thoughts? I don't want to repeat this if I don't have to!

[Knife]

I experienced pretty much the same scenario recently, having to suddenly swerve and squeeze between my brother who slowed while passing and a semi. But passing is one of the most fun things to do on a ride. So next time, slam her down a gear or two and hit the throttle. The rush of adrenalin is addictive.

[FotoMoto]

Sounds like you both made poor decisions. Possible answer: slow down towards the end of a long, hard day; take more breaks.

[Guest]

The following rider should not pull out until the first has cleared the obstacle... Glad to hear you're both ok

Ride safe

[spud786]

I guess, the real issue if he went to the outside of you and the truck and knew what he was doing, that would be okay.

If Going in between you and the truck that would not be right at all, I would have either halted also or made double pass on the outside. Sounds like he went supersonic without a clear path, his fault.

[Monk]

I think the biggest problem with riding with someone else is the double pass. As stated above, wait to the 1st rider is clear. One at a time. In the last day or two, there was a guy that said he layed his bike down at the same spot that his friend he was following got loose, which tells me he was following to close, because if he could see his friend lose traction, he "should" have had time to slow down if he kept a 2 sec. interval.

I would say, next ride try a 2 sec. split, and one rider pass at a time, should pretty much take care of you two causing each others area to be compromised.

For myself when I ride with other people, till I get to know their riding style I stay in the rear.

But like you said, you two have been riding together forever, so there was a little bit of knowing between you that made you both pull it off with out hitting each other... Glad you two are ok....

[TucsonErik]

I 'ran into' the back of another Seadoo riding with a friend 'cause I was following him and decided to look to the side at the shore. Of course, that's when he slowed down. :fing02:

Gotta say it felt completely like my fault.

[Guest]

I have a friend that I ride with a lot that I trust 100%. I can see what happened with your buddy. When you ride with someone that much you begin to predict what they will do. He predicted that you were going to pass. Technically I would say that both of you made an error in judgment, you by not correctly reading the speed of the vehicle coming at you and him by not taking into account what you were doing. I really don't mean to criticize or point fingers, we all make mistakes, what is important was that he was skillful enough to avoid an accident. Please remember at the end of the day you aren't as sharp as you were at the beginning of the day. Stay hydrated and knock it down a couple of notches when the day is getting old. Take care and ride safe.

[spud786]

One time I ran up on the back of a cruiser group with truck in front of them, looking to pass in one shot, there was an area that had quick up and down moguls, going down a big hill. That was where I'd intended to pass.

Well, to my surprise the lead cruiser circled his hand and pulled out to pass on the down hill large moguls with the whole group following blindly like sheep.

Keep in mind i'm further up the hill with better view, and my view was not clear enough to lead a 5 bike group into that scenario , just not enough site line or time if oncoming appeared. No way was I following into that abyss.

I waited till next opportunity

[SpiralGray]

I don't necessarily subscribe to the "wait until the first bike has passed" theory. I think two or three bikes can get around a slower vehicle under the right circumstances.

You were on an uphill section of road, which implies your sight-line was at least partially obstructed. I'm sorry to say, but it sounds like poor judgment on the part of your buddy. If you've got a half-mile of clear, flat sight-line, then go for it. If you're going uphill with an on-coming vehicle that's not a good time to just follow the lead bike.

[VFR Capt.Bob]

The following rider should not pull out until the first has cleared the obstacle... Glad to hear you're both ok

Ride safe

This is exactly the right answer. Your buddy had no right to attempt a pass until you were safe and sound. End of story. As the leader you need to make clear to him that after you pass you won't leave him in the dust but wait for him to pass before you get back on pace. You can even give him the wave to pass from your lead position or the stop signal if its not safe to aid him.

Head on collision are usually a death sentence so make sure you work it out. If your buddy can't pass with out endangering the lead rider then he is making an unsafe pass. Needs to check up and wait for a new opportunity.

Slowing the pace at the end of the day (as someone mentioned) is an excellent idea as well. The only fatality with in a group of riders I ride with regularly occured after a the ride was officially over and they were more or less on the way home. He was a great rider and a great person. God rest his soul.

[BusyLittleShop]

When you ride in pairs then you must plan to pass in pairs... don't

pull the trigger on the throttle unless there is ample room to afford

you and yours a clear and decisive pass...

[VFR Capt.Bob]

I don't necessarily subscribe to the "wait until the first bike has passed" theory. I think two or three bikes can get around a slower vehicle under the right circumstances.

You were on an uphill section of road, which implies your sight-line was at least partially obstructed. I'm sorry to say, but it sounds like poor judgment on the part of your buddy. If you've got a half-mile of clear, flat sight-line, then go for it. If you're going uphill with an on-coming vehicle that's not a good time to just follow the lead bike.

I know exactly what you're saying. The following rider has to include the lead rider in his passing calculus. If it's late in the day it's better to err on the side of saftey. If there's any doubt it's better to check up and wait.

Stuck behind slower traffic won't suck as long as even a minor crash will. A major head on crash has to be avoided at all cost.

[HispanicSlammer]

I dont know why everybody has to make passes at blinding speed, it affords no options to abort should a car appear suddenly where none had been before you started the pass. This happened today trying to pass a semi with a flatbed, its too long and it was going to fast to make it safely I thought and so I aborted and pulled back in behind the truck. Luckily I was not leading so no body behind me, but I was the last guy in this scenerio. I dont like to pass at full speed I dont like haveing to duck in behind a car to get out of the way of oncomming traffic only to grab a handfull of brakes to keep from rear ending the car. I like to pass at a decent speed but let off the gas and safely merge back into the lane easy without having to grab brakes to get back over. The bike is so much faster than the regular traffic its a snap to get around folks without having to bin it wfo!

I get up speed to get around but dont go all out, I like to be able to merge easy so I get up to a good passing speed and stay there instead of red lining the tach. Then I can use less brakes should I need to duck in behind a set of cars much more controled providing for an easier mearge. Guys following me know I am not going to do somthing stupid and I usually say somthing before hand about following too close, I hate that. I dont need to see your damn wheel fella, its just a fun ride, not the last lap of a world superbike race.

[Beck]

Riding as a tight pair where you assume mostly that your friend will pass the slower vehicle right behind you, I think you could have allowed for more clear distances for the pass. You might have been cutting it too close to allow for both of you to properly deal with an aborted pass attempt.

Beck

95 VFR

[AvalonRacing]

hlf,

Good for you to admit that you were tired and not making the best decisions. So few people are willing to admit "Hey, I screwed up". Your post may start a conversation that could save a life.

:fing02:

[hlf]

Thanks for your suggestions and observations.

I think that we both made mistakes here. Neither of us not fully appreciated the impact of our actions on the other rider.

My buddy and I each ride our own ride; we don't try to make decisions for the other rider. Leading, I don't try to judge my passes with the expectation that I have to allow space for my buddy to make the pass at the same time. Following, he certainly does not assume that I'm making the pass judgment for him, either. Independently, our decisions were not bad; I could easily abort my pass and pull back in safely, and he, better prepared for the pass and on a faster bike, could make the pass safely.

Ironically, our independent thinking and familiarity with each other (after literally 100’s of passes the previous 3 days) fostered complacency.

Perhaps our biggest error, however, was not fully appreciating the affect of fatigue on our judgment. We were both pretty tired. It took both of us making mistakes at the same time to really put us in danger. I should have been more conservative with my passing, making sure that I was fully prepared to pass and only attempting easy passes. My friend should have also been more conservative, allowing for room for error (on both our parts).

I think the take away for me is to be more aware of how I am feeling and adjust my riding actions to better suit my mental and physical condition. It’s easy to overestimate one’s capacity (or at least it’s very easy to underestimate it’s diminishment!).

[TimC]

Glad no one got hurt, hlf. Good topic for discussion here. :rolleyes:

I'm kind of in between on passing together and one at a time. I think it's OK for the following rider to begin his pass as the leading rider is finishing his. They shouldn't pass in formation, or have two riders passing at the same time, but the following rider can pull out to pass as the leading rider is moving back into his lane.

I agree with HS above, too. Passes don't have to be done at dizzying speeds. Go as fast as necessary, but not all-out. It doesn't leave as much room for error, plus it can scare the heck out of cagers, leading to more resentment. After passing, back off a bit and wait for the rest of the group before continuing the faster pace.

Fatigue is a big factor late in the day, esp. for riders who aren't used to long days. Miles, alertness and exertion take a toll mentally and physically, and can affect judgment. Slow down a bit, and take more frequent breaks if necessary. And stay hydrated!

I've led a few small group rides, and I tell riders new to the group that I will pass on double-yellows when safe to do so. In the future I'll try to remember to cover this passing technique info, too.

[Guest]

Sounds like you both made poor decisions. Possible answer: slow down towards the end of a long, hard day; take more breaks.

:rolleyes: You guys were lucky. I've had my handlebars clipped as the lead passer in this very same situation, but stayed upright, fortunately. This was also by a buddy whose riding I trusted 100%. He barely made the pass as I was slowing to pull back into the right lane. Fatigue can affect your split second timing more than we like to imagine. Making allowance in the passing distance for those behind you is another factor in your passing decision. Wicking down the pace a couple of clicks near the end of a long ride can certainly help to prevent a disaster from misjudgement due to fatigue.

[cruzinaz]

I usually say somthing before hand about following too close, I hate that. I dont need to see your damn wheel fella, its just a fun ride, not the last lap of a world superbike race.

:rolleyes: :blush:

[Monk]

I dont know why everybody has to make passes at blinding speed, it affords no options to abort should a car appear suddenly where none had been before you started the pass. This happened today trying to pass a semi with a flatbed, its too long and it was going to fast to make it safely I thought and so I aborted and pulled back in behind the truck. Luckily I was not leading so no body behind me, but I was the last guy in this scenerio. I dont like to pass at full speed I dont like haveing to duck in behind a car to get out of the way of oncomming traffic only to grab a handfull of brakes to keep from rear ending the car. I like to pass at a decent speed but let off the gas and safely merge back into the lane easy without having to grab brakes to get back over. The bike is so much faster than the regular traffic its a snap to get around folks without having to bin it wfo!

I get up speed to get around but dont go all out, I like to be able to merge easy so I get up to a good passing speed and stay there instead of red lining the tach. Then I can use less brakes should I need to duck in behind a set of cars much more controled providing for an easier mearge. Guys following me know I am not going to do somthing stupid and I usually say somthing before hand about following too close, I hate that. I dont need to see your damn wheel fella, its just a fun ride, not the last lap of a world superbike race.

:rolleyes: :blush: I agree...... Just because a pair doesn't see anything coming, doesn't mean that there couldn't be a bike malfunction with the lead bike. That comes back to following to close.

2 sec. single file ; 1 sec. stagger formation

[JTG]

I dont know why everybody has to make passes at blinding speed, it affords no options to abort should a car appear suddenly where none had been before you started the pass. This happened today trying to pass a semi with a flatbed, its too long and it was going to fast to make it safely I thought and so I aborted and pulled back in behind the truck. Luckily I was not leading so no body behind me, but I was the last guy in this scenerio. I dont like to pass at full speed I dont like haveing to duck in behind a car to get out of the way of oncomming traffic only to grab a handfull of brakes to keep from rear ending the car. I like to pass at a decent speed but let off the gas and safely merge back into the lane easy without having to grab brakes to get back over. The bike is so much faster than the regular traffic its a snap to get around folks without having to bin it wfo!

I get up speed to get around but dont go all out, I like to be able to merge easy so I get up to a good passing speed and stay there instead of red lining the tach. Then I can use less brakes should I need to duck in behind a set of cars much more controled providing for an easier mearge. Guys following me know I am not going to do somthing stupid and I usually say somthing before hand about following too close, I hate that. I dont need to see your damn wheel fella, its just a fun ride, not the last lap of a world superbike race.

:rolleyes:

I never have and never will understand taking even a small chance when passing a car. Some days you get stuck behind rows of cars, and some days the road is wide open and you can let it fly. But to risk injuring or killing yourself just so you can have one more "good" turn before getting stuck behind another car doesn't make any sense. If going flat out all the time is that important then hang up your street gear, and head to the track.

Sorry for the soap box, but having witnessed what happens when a risky pass goes terribly wrong there is no question in my mind.

[DDO-VFR]

As weird as it may sound, you and your friend did the right thing.

How to ride in formation:

Rule #1 - you do not cross the line of the rider in front or behind you.

So what does that mean when you want to pass as a group? with two riders, the first rider goes to his left to pass (remember he is already on the left so he doesn't cross any line) and goes to the left side of the passing lane. The next rider goes to his left into right side of the passing lane. Since the second driver never crossed the lead driver's line, if either driver has to grab some brakes there is no collision. If the first rider does grab brakes (as happened to you) the second rider has the option to continue his pass (between you and the truck) or brake.

The first driver waits until the second driver returns to the right side of the driving lane before returning to driving lane, which avoids any line cross-overs.

As you can imagine, it gets it bit hairy with more riders, but the bottom line is that ALL of the left side riders (in the classic left-right zigzag formation) move into the passing lane simultaneously AFTER the lead rider has made the important decision to initiate a pass, THEN the right side riders follow suit. Everyone stays in the passing lane until the last rider passes. The right side of formation moves into the return lane first. As you can clearly see, in a larger group the decision by the lead rider to pass is a big responsibility, and he has to be sure that all those behind him will have time to pass.

Otherwise, for larger groups, ride in pairs with sufficient distance between pairs to avoid braking collisions and do independent passing (in pairs of course).

BI

[Knife]

I always flash a courtesy wave to the vehicle I passed. Seems to have a soothing effect and eliminate any competitive urge they may otherwise get.

[bayarearider]

I always flash a courtesy wave to the vehicle I passed. Seems to have a soothing effect and eliminate any competitive urge they may otherwise get.

:biggrin: especially on a single no passing lane solid center lines and the vehicle has made room for your pass.

Good reminder for discussion with your fellow riders!