2014 VFR800 Front Wheel removal

[StrayCat2]

Preparing for new tires to go on the VFR.   Looked in the owners manual and I have 2 questions for those who have done it.  

 

1) Is it really necessary to remove the front wheel speed sensor 2) do you have to remove "both" brake callipers ?

 

 

[Terry]

Can't comment on the 8th gen but I do have experience with radial callipers and ABS sensor on my MT-10. I suspect you'll run less risk of chipping the wheel rim if you remove both callipers. Just do it, and clean and lube the pistons while you have them off. As for the wheel speed sensor, these can be damaged if you are a little clumsy removing the wheel, and the clearance to to the pulser ring is usually very small, so for the sake of another couple of bolts....

[StrayCat2]

Cheers !

 

My Africa Twin is similar but in fact you dont need to remove half of what the manual says.  

 

Ill just follow the manual for the VFR

[VFR78]

I have a 2014. I always take off both calipers, but have never removed the abs sensor. 

[Grum]

53 minutes ago, VFR78 said:

I have a 2014. I always take off both calipers, but have never removed the abs sensor. 

Same here on my 2014. Just add a small amount of Loctite 243 threadlocker to the caliper bolts on the install.

The head lift stand makes the job a cinch.

 

[StrayCat2]

cheers guys, i've got a head lift stand

 

 

[Sparkie]

I take off the calipers, but don't touch the sensor.

You are also supposed to replace the caliper bolts every time, but I don't.

But definitely bounce the front end a bit to ensure proper alignment, and use a torque wrench.  Settings are in the manual.

 

Here's instructions from the expert:

https://youtu.be/DYHV78tWs1c

 

 

[tbzep]

5 minutes ago, Sparkie said:

You are also supposed to replace the caliper bolts every time, but I don't.

 

I think there are about 3 guys in the USA that replace the bolts every time, maybe 12 or 13 worldwide.  lol

[VFR78]

I’ve replaced the bolts on two occasions in the last 7.5 years and 72,000 km. They are hollow, so I figure they will lose their flexibility/stretching ability over time. It costs a bomb, so I can understand why people baulk at it.

[VFR78]

Abt. $108.00 AUD a set.

[Thumbs]

That’s why I put Ti in mine 

[VFR78]

Not too sure that is the solution. I think they are supposed to stretch - once! Ti might be too strong for the alloy in the fork mounts. I really have no idea what is best. Never did mechanical engineering or metallurgy.

[Grum]

17 hours ago, VFR78 said:

Not too sure that is the solution. I think they are supposed to stretch - once! Ti might be too strong for the alloy in the fork mounts. I really have no idea what is best. Never did mechanical engineering or metallurgy.

Tightened firmly but never over tightened and with a little threadlocker eg. Loctite 243 applied to the threads they'll last years and years........Have never replaced the caliper bolts on the four VFR's I've had, front or rear. Still here to tell the story!

As always YMMV.

[Terry]

I have never replaced calliper bolts either. My logic is they are steel bolts @ low torque where the alloy that it threads into is the limiting factor. 

[VFR78]

I’ve only done it a couple of times, purely because its cost prohibitive. What I’d really like to know, or understand, is why Mr Honda says they need to be replaced.

[Cogswell]

27 minutes ago, VFR78 said:

I’ve only done it a couple of times, purely because its cost prohibitive. What I’d really like to know, or understand, is why Mr Honda says they need to be replaced.

 

Lawyers?

[JZH]

14 hours ago, Terry said:

I have never replaced calliper bolts either. My logic is they are steel bolts @ low torque where the alloy that it threads into is the limiting factor. 

 

You've never seen a stretched steel bolt threaded into alloy, then?  They look like this:

 

https://www.triumphrat.net/attachments/tiger-brake-bolt-jpg.63642/

 

If a bolt is repeatedly stretched, it will eventually snap.  Only a question of time...

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

[Terry]

30 minutes ago, JZH said:

 

You've never seen a stretched steel bolt threaded into alloy, then?  They look like this:

 

https://www.triumphrat.net/attachments/tiger-brake-bolt-jpg.63642/

 

If a bolt is repeatedly stretched, it will eventually snap.  Only a question of time...

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

Not arguing there, but the torque on the brake bolts on all my axially mounted callipers is only 31 N-m. Which is not much more than snug. The service manual does state that the bolt is ALOC type which means it is factory supplied with threadlocker. My view is that Honda rightly consider this bolt to be critical and hence the threadlocker, and that if the bolt is re-used the threadlocker can't be relied upon.

 

I don't use threadlock here, but do religiously use a torque wrench. I've never seen any sign of stretch on the bolts but will keep an eye out. 

[Grum]

8 hours ago, JZH said:

 

You've never seen a stretched steel bolt threaded into alloy, then?  They look like this:

 

https://www.triumphrat.net/attachments/tiger-brake-bolt-jpg.63642/

 

If a bolt is repeatedly stretched, it will eventually snap.  Only a question of time...

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

Pity there's no info about the bolt being stretched.

Was it done for demonstration? Was it incorrectly torqued? Perhaps the N-m torque value was incorrectly read as Ft-lb? Was the bolt faulty from manufacturer? How many reuse cycles had it done? What would be the state of the internal threads after such over tightening?

 

I inspect my caliper bolts before reinstalling, none have ever looked anything like the photo, I'd certainly bin it if it did, will continue to keep a close eye on them. As mentioned I never over torque them and use a little 243 threadlocker when installing.

I guess there's a similar analogy to those who believe chains should only ever be replaced with new sprockets!

 

Just for the fun of it! Took out one of the caliper bolts. 90,000k's and with brake pad and tyre changes has now done seven removal and installs.

 

And most certainly.....YMMV.

[StrayCat2]

Honda wants new bolts on the Africa Twin callipers as well.  I dont change the calliper bolts, I just re apply thread locker and re use them.  they not that tightly torqued.

 

 

[RC1237V]

Maybe Honda was worried some folks might use the inferior Triumph bolts... 

 

Working on cars for a living for quite some time, and wrenching on cars and bikes all my life, I don't think I've ever seen a bolt that bad. Seen some with stripped threads, buggard up threads, corroded, rusted, pitted, and bent. I'm also a machinist, so I do notice things on fasteners way more than most people. almost looks like inferior metallurgy, or waaay over-torqueing many times in a row. Usually, the offender will rip out the alloy threads in their nice aluminum mating part first. 

 

Let's see what Danno says, he's seen more than I have...

Edited April 26, 2022 by RC1237V

[Grum]

Did a bit of a search. These bolts seem to be as rare as rocking horse shit in Australia!

According to Honda's recommendation of one use only, you'd need 4 new bolts every time you either drop the front wheel off for a new tyre or to fit new pads, and that these bolts are used on multiple bike models, there should be thousands of these bolts readily available, there just isn't!

No wonder they are rarely if ever replaced!

 

Part Number 90131-MEL-000 Flange Bolt 10×57mm.

[VFR78]

They are rare. I’ve waited at least a month for mine. Very strange all around!

[fink]

On 4/25/2022 at 9:19 PM, Terry said:

Not arguing there, but the torque on the brake bolts on all my axially mounted callipers is only 31 N-m. Which is not much more than snug. The service manual does state that the bolt is ALOC type which means it is factory supplied with threadlocker. My view is that Honda rightly consider this bolt to be critical and hence the threadlocker, and that if the bolt is re-used the threadlocker can't be relied upon.

 

I don't use threadlock here, but do religiously use a torque wrench. I've never seen any sign of stretch on the bolts but will keep an eye out. 

Have seen a few "waisted "bolts on Cbrs over the years.

[StrayCat2]

Usually the result of someone using the "arm-strong" torque wrench, I bet