Unleashing 5th Gen Factory Power + DMr + Thurn MS

[2k1GoneWild]

54 minutes ago, stryker said:

It isn't as easy as that to build a performance exhaust. Extensive dyno testing, trail and error, pipe lenght, inner diameter of primary and secondary pipes, merges, bends, etc are the things that has to be right,  depending on what you are seeking, top end power, midrange or whatever. nice welds or joints do not help preformance. Read this: http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/exhaust_system_technology.htm

Btw, didn't you see my pic? And i'm not the only one with a Black widow with merges like that.

 

For a $650 delivered product Black Widow are the very best in overall quality, performance and value. I am totally satisfied and if you disagree post ink to a better product.

 

 

 

 

[2k1GoneWild]

1 hour ago, stryker said:

It isn't as easy as that to build a performance exhaust. Extensive dyno testing, trail and error, pipe lenght, inner diameter of primary and secondary pipes, merges, bends, etc are the things that has to be right,  depending on what you are seeking, top end power, midrange or whatever. nice welds or joints do not help preformance. Read this: http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/exhaust_system_technology.htm

Btw, didn't you see my pic? And i'm not the only one with a Black widow with merges like that.

Black Widow is the best bang for the buck and the only direct build & buy manufacture period, if you disagree send a link to a better product you can actually buy. Here are the pics to prove it, PS I have a 2" polished stainless exhaust clamp on the way, should be here this week.

 

IMG_4197.MOV

IMG_4197.MOV

[Forbes]

 

It isn't as easy as that to build a performance exhaust. Extensive dyno testing, trail and error, pipe lenght, inner diameter of primary and secondary pipes, merges, bends, etc are the things that has to be right,  depending on what you are seeking, top end power, midrange or whatever. nice welds or joints do not help preformance. Read this: http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/exhaust_system_technology.htm
Btw, didn't you see my pic? And i'm not the only one with a Black widow with merges like that.

Very interesting read, thank you. Since I'm going to be building my own system for my VF's, nothing out there and ballpark quote of $2500.00 to build what I want????

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

[2k1GoneWild]

55 minutes ago, Forbes said:

It isn't as easy as that to build a performance exhaust. Extensive dyno testing, trail and error, pipe lenght, inner diameter of primary and secondary pipes, merges, bends, etc are the things that has to be right,  depending on what you are seeking, top end power, midrange or whatever. nice welds or joints do not help preformance. Read this: http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/exhaust_system_technology.htm
Btw, didn't you see my pic? And i'm not the only one with a Black widow with merges like that.

Very interesting read, thank you. Since I'm going to be building my own system for my VF's, nothing out there and ballpark quote of $2500.00 to build what I want????

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk
 

 

Here's a great exhaust that's already on the DynoJet !

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SMRCru_dMeI

 

Before I started spending $2500 on a custom exhaust I would just go find a deal in a H2 somebody already spent a bunch of money (like the one with all the Brock goodies that's been posted on eBay with 237 hp) https://www.ebay.com/itm/371779390316

 

 

 

 

 

[Forbes]

2K1GoneWild,
We appreciate everyone's point of view, for me, I don't have a couple of grand lying around to buy a new machine. I'm building a VF750f from the ground up, this is a bike that is in my blood from when they were first released. I have three, one is going to remain stock and I'm busy playing with the second. There is no way I would spend that amount on an exhaust system unless I was rich, which is why I'm going to build it myself, probably build a system for all three for less than that, it won't be perfect I know. We learn stuff every day and that's the joy of doing your own work. The link posted was an interesting read that I will try implementing as I can.
The idea of a forum like this I would think is for people to express their knowledge and findings....so we can make our own decisions. You have found value in your purchase and that's great. Agreed, there are many who cannot do their own mechanical or fabrication work and it is maybe frustrating. Me, I'm a person who goes my own way, win or lose. Right now, I'm loving every little thing I do on my build.
Regards
Craig

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

[stryker]

I totally agree with you Forbes. I like it when people are doing their own thing.Myself i dont care what other people think, but i always listen to other peoples thoughts and knowledge, that's what helps us from doing the same mistake over again.

 I'm not saying that 2k1GoneWild should spend 2500$ on a exhaust, not many people would do that. Just want to share my thoughts and facts about

these headers. They look ok, the welds are good, and that's it. Here's another tread about the same problem: 

 

[Forbes]

I totally agree with you Forbes. I like it when people are doing their own thing.Myself i dont care what other people think, but i always listen to other peoples thoughts and knowledge, that's what helps us from doing the same mistake over again.
 I'm not saying that 2k1GoneWild should spend 2500$ on a exhaust, not many people would do that. Just want to share my thoughts and facts about
these headers. They look ok, the welds are good, and that's it. Here's another tread about the same problem: 
 

that was my quote here in Australia for a one off, handbuilt pipe from a bike exhaust guy, he does really nice work, just not going to spend that, sure I'll have more welds, but that will suite my build anyway...
Built, not baught gives more satisfaction. My philosophy is "Steal with the eyes", if I see something done, I know I can do it! It helps having a lifetime of experience and like minded friends growing up.

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

[Dutchy]

And lest we forget, we not only want charts from the dyno,

we want video too!!!!

 

https://youtu.be/h5MXLetl7OM
 

 

[Mohawk]

18 hours ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

o2 eliminators do not add power. The factory o2 sensors are only online during steady/light throttle cruising.

The eliminators are used to keep your ecu from going in and out of open/closed loop fuel injection, to make tuning possible.

Again, nothing to do with power.

 

Money saving tip, you only need ONE O2 eliminator, to kill the Fi warning light, it does not matter which O2 circuit you put it on :) You will srill get Fi codes recorded, just not the flashing warning light.

[Mohawk]

19 hours ago, 2k1GoneWild said:

 Right now this VFR like to rev right on up to redline and right through to 13,0000 rpm.

 

The factory rev limiter kicks in at a true 12,200rpm, I've tested that on a dyno & using an ECU monitor. My Rev counter over reads by approx 300rpm, so it is possible that yours is just really bad & reading 800rpm over reality, but there is no way its reaching 13,000rpm. If it did, it would likely handgrenade the rods !   I had to up the rev limit on mine to 12,500rpm to get to 120hp,

[2k1GoneWild]

20 minutes ago, Mohawk said:

 

Money saving tip, you only need ONE O2 eliminator, to kill the Fi warning light, it does not matter which O2 circuit you put it on :) You will srill get Fi codes recorded, just not the flashing warning light.

The o2 sensors reads the difference between the exhaust o2 content and outside air content and  sends a signal to the ECU that regulates fuel flow. The o2 eliminator constantly satisfies the ECU so it's not longer factored into regulating the fuel flow. So you end up burning more fuel and that "adds power". Maybe I'm wrong but that's what all my research is indicating. I started with researching the development of the LAMDA sensor by Robert Bosch exactly how the seniors function and then read about the Power Commander lll fuel mapping protocols in relation how PC lll communicates to the ECU using variables in stored files that can be edited and modified  to improve performance. But maybe I got it all wrong ?

[CandyRedRC46]

Yes you got it all wrong. As I said earlier, the o2 sensors are only used by the ECU during light/steady throttle cruising. They are not online during acceleration. Disabling the o2 sensors only keeps your fuel injection in open loop for more consistent tuning. AGAIN O2 SENSOR ELIMINATORS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH POWER ON THE VFR800.

[CandyRedRC46]

" Black Widow is the best bang for the buck and the only direct build & buy manufacture period, if you disagree send a link to a better product you can actually buy. Here are the pics to prove it, PS I have a 2" polished stainless exhaust clamp on the way, should be here this week."

Here is a link to a better and cheaper header. $250 for the header, $20x2 for the rear pipes, $150 for ceramic coating and you can port the inlets with a dremel for free to make it look and perform even better. That is $440, which is $190 cheaper than the header that you refuse to acknowledge isn't a performance header and more than likely has horrific internal merging.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/98-01-HONDA-VFR800-FI-INTERCEPTOR-OEM-EXHAUST-HEADER-PIPES-MANIFOLD-/122197864206?hash=item1c738f6f0e:g:o~8AAOSwHMJYD6D4&vxp=mtr

[2k1GoneWild]

30 minutes ago, Mohawk said:

 

The factory rev limiter kicks in at a true 12,200rpm, I've tested that on a dyno & using an ECU monitor. My Rev counter over reads by approx 300rpm, so it is possible that yours is just really bad & reading 800rpm over reality, but there is no way its reaching 13,000rpm. If it di, it would like handgrenade the rods !   I had to up the rev limit on mine to 12,500rpm to get to 120hp,

That's good to know, when I installed the Euro ECU it started to climb through RPM's much better. But 12,5000 seems right and peak power is 10,500 so shift around 11,000 and in 6th gear don't run it much past 12,000 which should be about 158 mph.

[CandyRedRC46]

lol 12,000 in 6th is damn near 180.

[3dcycle]

I could be wrong here, don't think I am though.

o2 sensors function in their over all operations very different on a bike (at least these bikes) then they do on a car/truck. they are a lot more basic on these bikes. on a lot of late model cars they have 4 sensors (v 6 or v8 anyways) to monitor before and after cats, they make constant adjustments to the air/fuel.

 

lost my train of though on this and where I was going dammit.

anyways if you are researching o2 sensors in general (not saying that you are) but if you are try to narrow it to vfr specifics as they are not the same as a auto. 

[Mohawk]

10 minutes ago, 2k1GoneWild said:

The o2 sensors reads the difference between the exhaust o2 content and outside air content and  sends a signal to the ECU that regulates fuel flow. The o2 eliminator constantly satisfies the ECU so it's not longer factored into regulating the fuel flow. So you end up burning more fuel and that "adds power". Maybe I'm wrong but that's what all my research is indicating. I started with researching the development of the LAMDA sensor by Robert Bosch exactly how the seniors function and then read about the Power Commander lll fuel mapping protocols in relation how PC lll communicates to the ECU using variables in stored files that can be edited and modified  to improve performance. But maybe I got it all wrong ?

All correct in thery, but the O2 circuit on the VFR uses 4 wires, 2 are power to the heater in the O2 sensor, the other 2 are the Lambda +/- 1 signal, for rich/lean status as that is all the narrowband sensor can monitor & send.  The O2 eliminator, just puts a resistance across the heater circuit, so the ECU does NOT light up the Fi fault light on the dash. The ECU continues to attempt to monitor the O2 but NO signal is ever received, so it can NEVER enter the closed loop fuel efficiency state. So it does NOT add more fuel at any time, it just uses the preprogrammed maps in the ECU.

 

The ECU has two o2 feeds to allow it to lean out the fuel to each bank of cylinders, paired as per the exhaust merges, but its configured such that if it loses feed from one O2 sensor it just uses the readings from the other. Same for the Heater circuit, hence you only need one O2 eliminator or resister to keep the Fi light out under normal use.

 

As far as stock replacement exhausts go, from other members on here & other VFR forums, the best headers are 1. Delkevic, 2. Motad, 3. Black Widow/Sandy Bike spares & I believe they are the only 3 available.  There were some performance headers made back inthe day when these bikes were new from Erion & TBR. And if the TYGA group buy ever gets finished there will be a new one based on TBR diameters, but possibly with a TYGA twist, these will be awesome quality, as all TYGA products are top notch.  This is what they make for the NR750

And this is the RVF400 version

 

Best of luck with the build.

 

[Mohawk]

Try this http://www.gearingcommander.com/

 

Stock gearing at 12,200 in 6th = 177mph, which is not achievable by the way, not enough power.  I've had mine to genuine 155mph & it was still accelerating but I was running out of road, so had to slow down.

[2k1GoneWild]

4 hours ago, 2k1GoneWild said:

 

Here's a great exhaust that's already on the DynoJet !

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SMRCru_dMeI

 

Before I started spending $2500 on a custom exhaust I would just go find a deal in a H2 somebody already spent a bunch of money (like the one with all the Brock goodies that's been posted on eBay with 237 hp) https://www.ebay.com/itm/371779390316

 

 

 

 

 

Except these pipes are used OEM (which are bent to accommodate the center stand), not new, not SS and do not have o2 ports? So that's something to consider, I was thinking more long term, like forever with no rust issues so that's why went with Black Widow to match it up with the Staintune and end up with all stainless full system. But I agree it would be an alternate excellent choice if $250 matters.

[2k1GoneWild]

42 minutes ago, Mohawk said:

All correct in thery, but the O2 circuit on the VFR uses 4 wires, 2 are power to the heater in the O2 sensor, the other 2 are the Lambda +/- 1 signal, for rich/lean status as that is all the narrowband sensor can monitor & send.  The O2 eliminator, just puts a resistance across the heater circuit, so the ECU does NOT light up the Fi fault light on the dash. The ECU continues to attempt to monitor the O2 but NO signal is ever received, so it can NEVER enter the closed loop fuel efficiency state. So it does NOT add more fuel at any time, it just uses the preprogrammed maps in the ECU.

 

The ECU has two o2 feeds to allow it to lean out the fuel to each bank of cylinders, paired as per the exhaust merges, but its configured such that if it loses feed from one O2 sensor it just uses the readings from the other. Same for the Heater circuit, hence you only need one O2 eliminator or resister to keep the Fi light out under normal use.

 

As far as stock replacement exhausts go, from other members on here & other VFR forums, the best headers are 1. Delkevic, 2. Motad, 3. Black Widow/Sandy Bike spares & I believe they are the only 3 available.  There were some performance headers made back inthe day when these bikes were new from Erion & TBR. And if the TYGA group buy ever gets finished there will be a new one based on TBR diameters, but possibly with a TYGA twist, these will be awesome quality, as all TYGA products are top notch.  This is what they make for the NR750

And this is the RVF400 version

 

Best of luck with the build.

 

I did some further research and the Delkevic are imported from China and have more pieces of pipes and clamps, so they have a higher problability of eventually leaking. The Motads are only purchased through 2nd party vendors and do not include the crush gaskets, so based on that I went with Black Widow. Although if there ever is an actual group build produced and it's SS and not over $600, I might consider going that route.

[2k1GoneWild]

48 minutes ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

" Black Widow is the best bang for the buck and the only direct build & buy manufacture period, if you disagree send a link to a better product you can actually buy. Here are the pics to prove it, PS I have a 2" polished stainless exhaust clamp on the way, should be here this week."

Here is a link to a better and cheaper header. $250 for the header, $20x2 for the rear pipes, $150 for ceramic coating and you can port the inlets with a dremel for free to make it look and perform even better. That is $440, which is $190 cheaper than the header that you refuse to acknowledge isn't a performance header and more than likely has horrific internal merging.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/98-01-HONDA-VFR800-FI-INTERCEPTOR-OEM-EXHAUST-HEADER-PIPES-MANIFOLD-/122197864206?hash=item1c738f6f0e:g:o~8AAOSwHMJYD6D4&vxp=mtr

I was considering that at first but I got a quote of $360 for ceramic coating and it would an extra step, more costs, not be all Stainless or match up with similar material to the high level Staintune.

[2k1GoneWild]

43 minutes ago, Mohawk said:

Try this http://www.gearingcommander.com/

 

Stock gearing at 12,200 on 6th = 177mph, which is not achievable by the way, not enough power.  I've had mine to genuine 155mph & it was still accelerating but I was running out of road, so had to slow down.

What I can do is turn on an app that records speed my iPhone and do a max speed run, I thinking I can get 155 mph too.

[CandyRedRC46]

What about the center stand? Are you not using a center stand? I don't get it. Are you implying that oem headers are crush bent instead of maderal bent, because that is false. Yes they are oem (this is a good thing) so they offer the best fitment and quality, plus they are larger bore (31.5mm for +2000 headers vs 34.5mm for 1998/1999 header's outer diameter) and catless, so they theoretically offer more flow than the 2000 plus headers. Why on earth would you need o2 ports? $360 for ceramic coating is a joke. I had mine coated for $120. As far as the longevity of mild steel vs stainless steel, that is why I suggested the ceramic coating. Properly coated mild steel headers will outlast the bike. I don't see any need to match up to the stainless slip on, besides aesthetics. 

[CandyRedRC46]

You will need a lot of road, a very serious tuck and a very healthy VFR to hit an actual 155.

[2k1GoneWild]

4 minutes ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

You will need a lot of road, a very serious tuck and a very healthy VFR to hit an actual 155.

So if my iPhone app shows 155 mph I'm in the ballpark?