stryker Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Don't want to kill your enthusiasm but Black widow header is not better than OEM. The merges are horrrible, randomly cutted tiny holes. I bought one because i wanted a left exit exhaust, you'll have to cut the connection pippes, grind open the holes in the merge and weld the pipes on again. even then you will not feel any difference compared to OEM. Those are really bad headers. But if you can cut grind and weld they are okay, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhenley17 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 I can lift my front wheel as high as I want to in first... with four quarts of oil in my tail bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 So basically after extensive modifications (cut, port, weld etc), black widow headers might be able to get as close to performance as an oem 1998 or 1999 header. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 10, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2016 11 minutes ago, CandyRedRC46 said: This reminds me of when I was 23, in 2009 and I first got my vfr. I was convinced that I was going to pull big numbers and doing all sorts of stuff (catless motad header, two brothers slip-on, air box mods, bmc air filter, power commander 3), "the wheel is coming off of the ground" then I got a custom dyno tune and went from 99whp to 101whp. Here's the deal, when you do a series of little things and get to know the exact feel and effect through "awareness" you .end up really knowing the "sum total effect". For example when I switched out the ECU, that's all I did, and then took it out and around on my open circuit, so I can tell the difference between the ECU's. Then I changed out the exhaust and felt the effect of the Staintune, plus only at that point did the front wheel start to lift up in first gear. The o2 eliminator goes on next, along with a different fuel map plus installing the DMr suspension kit. Right now this VFR like to rev right on up to redline and right through to 13,0000 rpm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Yup I thought the same thing 8 years ago. It was worth about 6 whp. With a motad header that possibly flows better and an air box that more than likely flows better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thtanner Posted November 10, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, 2k1GoneWild said: Here's the deal, when you do a series of little things and get to know the exact feel and effect through "awareness" you ... Replace awareness with placebo and you're a bit closer to reality. I need to stop reading this thread; it's painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 10, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 hour ago, thtanner said: Replace awareness with placebo and you're a bit closer to reality. I need to stop reading this thread; it's painful. It's a matter of focusing and really "getting to know" your VFR, does not have to be painful, but, not everybody can do it, takes time, effort and patience. I know this might sound a bit strange but seriously I know the effect of each and every little subtle change I have made because I don't do it all at once and I can go out and really road test it because I live in a very very rural area, usually no traffic whatsoever. When I first got this bike it would only run up to about 135-140 mph, now it keeps climbing past 140 mph but wants to go to up 160 mph, that's 110 whp ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Will you be disappointed if your dyno run reveals less than 110hp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 10, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2016 5 minutes ago, SEBSPEED said: Will you be disappointed if your dyno run reveals less than 110hp? The DynoJet tuning has a few purposes, the numbers are nice but what's more important is to check it with the various setups to see what's actually contributing to increased power performance on this particular machine. I've done Dyno sessions before and know what to expect, but I'm sure this bikes putting out 110 whp, it literally flies now and I still have the o2 eliminator to install which will allow me to load other fuel mapping files. Basically this bike in the PC lll fuel mapping selections is Euro ECU, Full Exhaust, After market Air Filter, o2 eliminator installed, need those 4 items Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 3dcycle Posted November 10, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2016 cant wait to see the dyno charts/video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 go to radio shack. buy a pack of 330 ohm resistors for 99 cents. done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 10, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2016 35 minutes ago, 3dcycle said: cant wait to see the dyno charts/video It's going to the DynoJet shop in Perry, Georgia, I'm figuring 4 hours to test the various ECU differences with and without the double snorkel air box and then fine tune a fuel map to the final configuration. My plan is to get it configured the best I can on my own like I have been doing, then pay shop time to DynoJet validate and final tune. There are 4 configuations to Dyno test using the same fuel mapping for Euro ECU,Full Exhaust/After Market Air Filter. O2 Eliminator as follows: (open flapper) Config 1 : DS Airbox Euro ECU Config 2 : DS Airbox USA ECU Config 3 : OM Airbox Euro ECU Config 4 : OM Airbox USA ECU Based upon those results, use best performing configuration to develop final custom fuel and tuning file. So that's about 5-6 Dyno runs and check power output along the way. Questions or comments ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 While you are in there: Config 1 : No snorkel/flapper Airbox, Euro ECU Config 2 : No snorkel/flapper Airbox, USA ECU Config 3 : No snorkel/flapper Airbox, R6 velocity stacks, Euro ECU Config 4 : No snorkel/flapper Airbox, R6 velocity stacks, USA ECU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 10, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2016 59 minutes ago, CandyRedRC46 said: While you are in there: Config 1 : No snorkel/flapper Airbox, Euro ECU Config 2 : No snorkel/flapper Airbox, USA ECU Config 3 : No snorkel/flapper Airbox, R6 velocity stacks, Euro ECU Config 4 : No snorkel/flapper Airbox, R6 velocity stacks, USA ECU Is that No Snorkel and flapper link disconnected ? Also how are R6 velocity stacks mounted ? Also K&N filter yes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thtanner Posted November 10, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2016 K&N filter offers no flow advantage over stock, or it may even be worse some have said. Pipercross filters, however, have a larger filter area (less plastic, more filter), and flow better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Yup both snorkel and flapper removed. R6 velocity stacks are epoxied to the air box and everything is port matched. Normally kn filters have a smaller surface area than OEM, so we go with Pipercross. Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 11, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 11, 2016 21 minutes ago, CandyRedRC46 said: Yup both snorkel and flapper removed. R6 velocity stacks are epoxied to the air box and everything is port matched. Normally kn filters have a smaller surface area than OEM, so we go with Pipercross. Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk Is there a picture of the R6 stacks epoxied into the airbox ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Yeah I think I took pictures of it before and posted them. Or you could one up that and do Mohawks interpretation of the Yoshi dual stacks. Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 11, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 11, 2016 25 minutes ago, thtanner said: K&N filter offers no flow advantage over stock, or it may even be worse some have said. Pipercross filters, however, have a larger filter area (less plastic, more filter), and flow better. Has anybody Dyno rated the K&N versus the Pipercross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 11, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 11, 2016 32 minutes ago, CandyRedRC46 said: Yeah I think I took pictures of it before and posted them. Or you could one up that and do Mohawks interpretation of the Yoshi dual stacks. Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk Can somebody possibly post a link ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 4 hours ago, 2k1GoneWild said: The DynoJet tuning has a few purposes, the numbers are nice but what's more important is to check it with the various setups to see what's actually contributing to increased power performance on this particular machine. I've done Dyno sessions before and know what to expect, but I'm sure this bikes putting out 110 whp, it literally flies now and I still have the o2 eliminator to install which will allow me to load other fuel mapping files. Basically this bike in the PC lll fuel mapping selections is Euro ECU, Full Exhaust, After market Air Filter, o2 eliminator installed, need those 4 items 4 hours ago, 2k1GoneWild said: The DynoJet tuning has a few purposes, the numbers are nice but what's more important is to check it with the various setups to see what's actually contributing to increased power performance on this particular machine. I've done Dyno sessions before and know what to expect, but I'm sure this bikes putting out 110 whp, it literally flies now and I still have the o2 eliminator to install which will allow me to load other fuel mapping files. Basically this bike in the PC lll fuel mapping selections is Euro ECU, Full Exhaust, After market Air Filter, o2 eliminator installed, need those 4 items My question remains. Will you be disappointed if your dyno run reveals less than 110hp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 11, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 11, 2016 Nope this VFR would never be disappointing just like my Golf R could never be disappointing. Just so all reasonable efforts have been taken to not hold back on all the factory power and follow through with DynoJet testing to validate the best configuration. Here is my Golf R getting DynoTested with 3 validation results of different configurations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Forbes Posted November 11, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 11, 2016 Don't want to kill your enthusiasm but Black widow header is not better than OEM. The merges are horrrible, randomly cutted tiny holes. I bought one because i wanted a left exit exhaust, you'll have to cut the connection pippes, grind open the holes in the merge and weld the pipes on again. even then you will not feel any difference compared to OEM. Those are really bad headers. But if you can cut grind and weld they are okay, nothing more. Always the same....build a name, make it semi decent, then mass produce and not many question results....Remember years ago , dyno day, this Ford Cortina V6 rocks up, barely running the cam is so lumpy....ran less than a stock motor, haha.Monitor each change for improvement!Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2k1GoneWild Posted November 11, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Forbes said: Always the same....build a name, make it semi decent, then mass produce and not many question results.... Remember years ago , dyno day, this Ford Cortina V6 rocks up, barely running the cam is so lumpy....ran less than a stock motor, haha. Monitor each change for improvement! Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk I been working around pipe-fitters and welders all my life. To make headers the pipes are cut, muted, bent, put in a jig, fit-up tacked and welded. This whole idea of good and bad headers I don't quite follow ? Just what are you talking about ? The folks that do thus type of work for a living are masters in this no that means they either have the skill set or they don't. What matters is the quality of the materials, the overall fit-up, no extra connections with clamps to leak and the quaility of the welding. Black Widow is top notch and they have the goods and back it up with great service,they know what they are doing. The other downpipes I looked at came from China and had more clamped connections. That means more potential for leaks ! The Black Widow downpipes have excellent fit, 304 SS Materials, welding is top-notch,very good flow and that match up perfect with the Staintune and they come with all the crush gaskets and highest quality SS fittings, it doesn't get any better than that for off the shelf downpipes system for $500.- Everything went perfect with Black Widow, the ordering, the shiipping, the install within a week from the UK and no middle-man or China, you deal direct with the UK fabricator. Excellent comminicaton, very responsive, zero issues ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryker Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Quote It isn't as easy as that to build a performance exhaust. Extensive dyno testing, trail and error, pipe lenght, inner diameter of primary and secondary pipes, merges, bends, etc are the things that has to be right, depending on what you are seeking, top end power, midrange or whatever. nice welds or joints do not help preformance. Read this: http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/exhaust_system_technology.htm Btw, didn't you see my pic? And i'm not the only one with a Black widow with merges like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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