Member Contributer zoomzoom Posted March 14, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted March 14, 2015 This is literally the BEST thing about VFRD. We all try to help out others whenever we can, be it with knowledge, or spare parts we no longer have need of so that we can all see another persons dream or idea come to be. Though I can't build fairing parts so beautiful they could pass for parts that Honda could have, or should have built. For that you would require the assistance of Apexandy. For parts that show off the soul of your project, as you mentioned Sebspeed is your guy. I however would be happy to polish anything you would be willing to send my way. LOL. Perhaps the clutch pressure plate for instance. Good luck with the project and above all else, HAVE AS MUCH FUN AS WE ALL THINK YOU WILL, and we in return hope to enjoy the photos as much as you enjoy taking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted March 14, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 14, 2015 Thanks zRoYz... safety first! I thought it was odd with all of the ones I saw having the same wear marks; thought it may be a design issue. I have new mounting hardware for the steering stem from Honda and I will assess the thread depth and interference tomorrow... if there's any doubt I'll be in the market for a lower triple... or a steering stem at least. I agree care must be taken to remove the lower bearing race carefully to avoid damage; I have a press (you can see it on the right in the last pic of the first post) but I didn't want to decrease the integrity of the press fit by pushing it in then out when I felt I could remove it reasonably well without damaging the bearing mounting surface... I consulted a suspension guru who advised me on cold chiseling it off carefully. Does anyone know if a VFR steering stem will fit into a 929 lower brace? ...I however would be happy to polish anything you would be willing to send my way. LOL. Perhaps the clutch pressure plate for instance.... I may take you up on that, Sir! I love the way yours looks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer zoomzoom Posted March 14, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted March 14, 2015 I would be honoured. As a side note. After having driven around with it now for about a week, it is still very shiny. I was moderately concerned that the polished bare aluminum might begin to oxidize and tarnish, this has NOT been the case. The part is now covered in oil on a regular basis which IMHO acts like a sealant of some sort. Thus preventing the shine from deteriorating. If you wish to send me the part, I will be happy to make it as shiny as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted March 14, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 14, 2015 Looks like the CBR600 stems are cheap online big CBRs and VFR800s are kinda pricey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 VFR stem doesn't have a alloy triple clamp & from memory (long time since looking at original) there welded to lower as well. You won't effect press fit of stem into alloy triple as you don't remove any material & the stem has a machined stop so seats to a stop within the triple. So once the triple clamps are installed on bike there is also no way the stem can fall out. I have pressed out the stems on all the alloy triple clamps during front end mods will zero ill effects. I use an old bearing grind out the bore a little with die grinder & use that against new bearing to push complete ass back together. So alloy triple placed on stem with new lower bearing & old bearing ground out so doesn't foul on stem press fit area & then place on press with old bearing against blocks & press stem home in alloy triple till it stops. Its so easy to do that way with zero damage to anything, just a note when pushing out stem push on stem without nut fitted (some will use nut as area to press) as the force can damage thread, make sure alloy triple is supported around bottom of stem bore not other areas on triple so everything is in perfect alinement so nothing bends. I just did a CBR1000RR stem into a 954 triple the other week because of same problem as your stem, it is very easy to find a CBR1000RR stem as there are so many bent triples of those. I will make this very clear DON'T use that stem you have that thread is stuffed even if you can get a ring to grip a little, I have machined allot of threads as one of my trades is toolmaker & that thread is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted March 14, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 14, 2015 VFR stem doesn't have a alloy triple clamp & from memory (long time since looking at original) there welded to lower as well. You won't effect press fit of stem into alloy triple as you don't remove any material & the stem has a machined stop so seats to a stop within the triple. So once the triple clamps are installed on bike there is also no way the stem can fall out. I have pressed out the stems on all the alloy triple clamps during front end mods will zero ill effects. I use an old bearing grind out the bore a little with die grinder & use that against new bearing to push complete ass back together. So alloy triple placed on stem with new lower bearing & old bearing ground out so doesn't foul on stem press fit area & then place on press with old bearing against blocks & press stem home in alloy triple till it stops. Its so easy to do that way with zero damage to anything, just a note when pushing out stem push on stem without nut fitted (some will use nut as area to press) as the force can damage thread, make sure alloy triple is supported around bottom of stem bore not other areas on triple so everything is in perfect alinement so nothing bends. I just did a CBR1000RR stem into a 954 triple the other week because of same problem as your stem, it is very easy to find a CBR1000RR stem as there are so many bent triples of those. I will make this very clear DON'T use that stem you have that thread is stuffed even if you can get a ring to grip a little, I have machined allot of threads as one of my trades is toolmaker & that thread is useless. Thanks Man! I appreciate your input and expertise... heard and understood. Looks like my weekend work schedule will be re-arranged... front end install was on the to do list... What years CBR1K stems work and do they require any shimming to get proper alignment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 The CBR1000RR stem is exact same as 929, 954 nothing required like shim. I know 100% 2004-2009 are same there was maybe some changes 2010> from memory but not sure there probably also the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 VFR stem doesn't have a alloy triple clamp & from memory (long time since looking at original) there welded to lower as well.Correct, it's forged steel and the stem is welded to the lower yoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rovari Posted March 14, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted March 14, 2015 lookin good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted March 14, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 14, 2015 The CBR1000RR stem is exact same as 929, 954 nothing required like shim. I know 100% 2004-2009 are same there was maybe some changes 2010> from memory but not sure there probably also the same. I checked my fork swap data table and I'm showing that the '04 - '07 CBR1000RR have the same offset (30mm) and C-C spacing (214mm) as the CBR929/954... is it even necessary to press the stem out and swap? Looks like I could use the lower triple with 929 top bridge... anybody have any insight on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 1000rr offset is NOT the same, it's only 25mm. VFR stem base diameter is the same, you can grind the weld off press it out and press it into the aluminum cbr lower -IF- you measure everything and install the VFR stem to the correct height. once the height is set you can secure it by cross drilling and inserting a shear pin. Much easier to replace with another cbr part! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted March 15, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 15, 2015 1000rr offset is NOT the same, it's only 25mm. VFR stem base diameter is the same, you can grind the weld off press it out and press it into the aluminum cbr lower -IF- you measure everything and install the VFR stem to the correct height. once the height is set you can secure it by cross drilling and inserting a shear pin. Much easier to replace with another cbr part! Thanks Seb... you just saved me $100 because I was about to pull the trigger and buy a CBR1K triple tree and try to swap it in to get this moving forward. would have been a lot of $$$ for just the stem. How do the CBR600 stems compare? They are a lot less expensive and abundant. Are they a viable donor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted March 15, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted March 15, 2015 The SP1/RC51, 929 and 954 have the correct yoke/triple dimensions. None of the smaller bikes (though I could have missed some of the newest models) would work. There may be more stems that can be used, but not without pressing out/in. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 The obvious clue you're missing here, is that all but a few Hondas since 1983 use the same size steering bearing... all those stems are the same diameter at the base. Given that info, and knowing that the CBR600 & liter-size stems and VFR stems are the same length, makes it easy to say that with the correct set of tools, talent, and method, these could be interchanged. I utilize a bolt loaded in shear to aid in stem retention when I build custom triples, and I would suggest you do the same if moving a stem from a steel triple to an aluminum one (no shoulder). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted March 16, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 16, 2015 Thanks all... I appreciate the info. I wasn't clear in my question and I apologize... I was going to buy the CBR1K lower triple tree and just swap it complete to save time, somewhere along the way I picked up incorrect info on that bikes geometry of that part; pressing that stem out and using it is an option but it wasn't cheap (and I kinda am ). $100 for just the stem seems like a lot to pay... thanks for saving me from myself. I am going to use a stem from an aluminum triple. If I'm going to press the stem out and swap it with my 929 stem I was hoping to spend as little money as possible... the CBR600s are significantly more available and cheaper than the 1000s. I can see they use the same bearings but are the 600s same length and will they work as far as the bearing spacing? That was my question, and now as I re-read your last post Seb I thank you for providing that piece of info on the 600s length being the same... One of the things I love about Honda are their standardization of parts... they find something that works and stick with it unless they have a reason to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 The length of insertion in the neck is the same. You MUST remove your lower bearing and measure the height of the old stem above the top surface of the lower triple BEFORE pressing it out. (the new one should be the same) You will need to press the new stem in to the same height and this can get a little tricky, depending on how good of a job you do grinding the steel stem out, and also on the availability of bushings for the press - you will likely need to insert the new stem past flush. Sockets usually work well for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted March 16, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 16, 2015 The length of insertion in the neck is the same. You MUST remove your lower bearing and measure the height of the old stem above the top surface of the lower triple BEFORE pressing it out. (the new one should be the same) You will need to press the new stem in to the same height and this can get a little tricky, depending on how good of a job you do grinding the steel stem out, and also on the availability of bushings for the press - you will likely need to insert the new stem past flush. Sockets usually work well for that. If I understand correctly, this would only apply to pressing a stem that had the weld ground off and was pressed out of a steel lower triple... like a VFR for instance. If I use a stem from an alloy lower triple it will have a shoulder and that would be pressed until seated. I would like to use a stem from an alloy lower triple and these would be from the 900s or liter bike... do the CBR600s have alloy lower triples or steel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 F2/3/4/4i have steel lowers. Unless you're swapping apples to apples, you need to measure. The internet is great, but the saying goes: "Trust, but verify" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVinOZ Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Great thread, excellent work! Looking forward to seeing this one finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I know for a fact SP1, 929,954, CBR1000RR 04-09 stems have interchangeability to work on the VFR head stem, anything else needs measuring to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted March 16, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 16, 2015 I know for a fact SP1, 929,954, CBR1000RR 04-09 stems have interchangeability to work on the VFR head stem, anything else needs measuring to be sure. Thank you very much for the info and confirmation. The 900s & liter bikes triples/stems were all over $100 online... I just bought a lower triple from a '03 CBR600RR for $24 shipped to my door... I'll measure it when it gets here and post the findings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted March 16, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted March 16, 2015 . The internet is great, but the saying goes: "Trust, but verify" Measure twice, cut once.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted March 16, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 16, 2015 . The internet is great, but the saying goes: "Trust, but verify" Measure twice, cut once.... Sound advice my friend... still rings true after all this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted March 16, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 16, 2015 I realize this is a complex undertaking and I hope I am up to the challenge. I mocked-up the swing arm yesterday and mechanically it appears to line up well. One of the challenges of this build is that the CBR954 swings on a 25mm axle and the VFR800 uses a 20mm axle. Initially I tried to source new roller bearings to accommodate the smaller VFR axle, but this seemed to over complicate the situation and increase costs. To help in aligning during the mock-up I ordered some 20x25mm roller bearing inside races to insert inside the pivot collars. I installed (2) 20x25mm roller bearing inside races to accommodate the different axle sizes. The 2 inside pivot collars have gaps of ~12mm; I will have to have collars machined with an ID of 20mm, an OD of 32mm, and the collar ~12mm wide to fill the space. The collars perform as the inner race of the roller bearings; what are the best choices for materials from which I should have the collars made? There are two bearings in the right arm (1 roller & 1 ball) I sourced a new ball bearing with a 20mm OD which will need to be pressed in on the outside right arm. Her new profile... I'm liking the lines, I can see her trying to come out and play... The 929 shock and linkage alignment is next and then the shock is off to Jamie Daugherty for him to work his magic and re-spring and re-valve to my fat arse... Once I have the swingarm set-up my intent is to align the wheels through the center line, get the necessary rear axle spacers machined to align the rear wheel to the front wheel, then work on chain - sprocket alignment. Do you have any advice or alternative sequence I should be taking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crakerjac Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Wow... I thought I was doing pretty good ripping all the plastics off my 1200... just so I can pull the ECU. I can only dream about doing something like this myself. Anxiously waiting to see the final result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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