thenewwazoo Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 O great Rush2112 O great SEBSPEED As an offering to you I give you this: (that's a CBR954RR with a VFR front-end) May it amuse you yea unto eternity In return this simple peasant asks but a small favor For he has a VFR with a CBR front end And it desperately needs a CBR swingarm ...any updates? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenewwazoo Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 So I've been doing some thinking about this and there are a few ways to approach it. A solid spacer between the "pivot distance collars" and the "pivot collars" would be just fine. The pivot distance collars don't rotate - only the outer races of the two needle (and one ball) bearings do. The size of that collar should be 20mm ID obviously, OD 32mm, with a width that's the difference between the VFR and CBR ball bearing+distance collar stack (and the ball bearing widths are known). Plus spacers inside the distance collars, obviously. Simplest option, and it would obviate the need for a spacer material that's suited as a race, since it would be between two stationary faces. Another alternative is to make a collar-within-a-collar that's got a 20mm ID, a 25mm OD for the width of the pivot distance collars plus ball bearing, and a 32mm OD for the difference. This would slot inside the pivot distance collar and ball bearing, and would mate with the cushion connecting rod collar. I'm not sure if that's what Seb has turned for you, or if he's reproduced the pivot distance collars plus that width difference. That is to say, with a thicker/wider "base". I'm actually having a surprising amount of trouble finding 20x25 spacer/sleeve material. Does that sound reasonable, or match your thought so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Kingmdm Posted October 30, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2015 Hell......I'm having trouble fitting up the front center fairing on an RC36 restoration!!! Russ, everyone here can understand your passion by your words "built around the motor I love" Rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Kingmdm Posted October 30, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2015 Rush. Another version of a VRF'd RC36. Food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted November 13, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 13, 2015 Rush. Another version of a VRF'd RC36. Food for thought. image.jpg Very cool! I've been looking at Tyga's bodywork for the NC35 to see if I can get it to fit on my RVF800... side mounted rads make it highly unlikely on a 5th gen without re-configuring the radiators to front mount Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Stick a 4th gen radiator on the front. Have you fitted the swingarm yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted November 13, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 13, 2015 Stick a 4th gen radiator on the front. Have you fitted the swingarm yet? I was thinking the same thing on the rads... I didn't know if clearance would be an issue with the usd forks and I already have the 5th Gen rads.I did fit the swing arm but there was some notchyness on the right side so I ordered a second set of bearings... I may have bunged up the first roller while pressing in. Bearings should be there this week when I get home. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 16, 2015 Stick a 4th gen radiator on the front. Have you fitted the swingarm yet? I was thinking the same thing on the rads... I didn't know if clearance would be an issue with the usd forks and I already have the 5th Gen rads.I did fit the swing arm but there was some notchyness on the right side so I ordered a second set of bearings... I may have bunged up the first roller while pressing in. Bearings should be there this week when I get home. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Anyone put front 4th gen rad on a fared 5th gen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 16, 2015 I promised some pics of Sebs craftsmanship so I will deliver... albeit very late, sorry... life has different plans than me almost daily... Here are the new all in one spacer collars and bearing inner race built to ride inside the ID CBR954 roller bearings and fit a 6th gen VFR axle... Those are my ZX14 front wheel spacers next to the collars with 1mm cut off each one... thanks Seb! My inital plan was to use a bearing that had the proper OD to mount in the right side swingarm but a smaller 20mm ID to fit the VFR swingarm pivot bolt... I apologize for the confusion I'm about to cause but the CBR954 ball bearing is a 6905 and it is in the package and that is the Honda part number, the bearing shown is a 6004RS that I tried to use but will likely pull in favor of the 954 bearing... explanation to come shortly. Press the old bearings out... And the new ones in... The bearing seemed to cock a little on it's way out and on the install on the right side which had me concerned due to the presence of impact marks on the outside of the bearing journal... if you recall, all my parts are from wrecked bikes I installed both bearings on the right side and I had to use care because the smaller ID ball bearing was also smaller in width so it didn't fit the whole gap between the end on the roller bearing and the snap ring. I grease and sealed it and slid in SebSpeed Custom's collars... Left side went in smoothly, snug, and functions like designed smooth as silk... Both sides installed... Dry fit test run on the bike... Snug and nice! But I felt a notchy-ness in the right side function of the collar when rotated... I pealed the cover off the bearing and added more grease... it had some but I wanted it packed, thanks BR ;) Tested again and it is still a little notchy... I can't tell if it is getting slightly better and maybe it will improve with time and actual use but I'm not gonna risk it. I think I may have slightly distorted the roller bearing outer race during installation so I ordered new bearings. I also am going to use the OEM 954 ball bearing and cut a bearing sleeve that I had made to fit between the VFR pivot bolt and 954 roller bearings when I was proofing out this concept. The reason being the CBR954 ball bearing will have the correct width to span the gap between the roller bearing and the snap ring so no chance of play there. Anyway, shipping delays are keeping my second set of new right side swingarm roller bearing and ball bearing out of my hands... won't be able to try my different solution until next weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Can't wait to see this thing all together and running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 16, 2015 Can't wait to see this thing all together and running. You and me both Buddy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Can't wait to see this thing all together and running. You and me both Buddy!!! Ride it to Tmac '16! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiKenG Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Has anyone else seen this wear pattern on the 929 triples? All the photos of used triples I saw showed the same pattern… No, never seen it before. I've a couple of lower yokes and none has damaged threads on the head tube. Very interesting project! This problem with the threads is caused by only one thing. The bike (with that steering stem/triple) has been crashed. The force on the forks forces the 2 yokes (triples) apart as it tried to rip them out of the headstock. It is that lower wider thread that holds the stem and lower yoke into the headstock and so the 'nut' (round and castellated fastener, normally 2 of them) is forced to jump a thread which tears the aluminium. Hm, that was harder to describe than I expected. But I've seen it on many examples of bottom yokes removed from crashed bikes, sometimes from a violent twisting of the forks and sometimes from a head-on. Whether that stem can be used again is dependent on how bad are the threads (and of course if it's still straight or not). I've seen them be re-usable and I've seen them so bad there's no way the nut would stay tight. If the actual yoke however is still good and straight, you could push out the damaged stem and get a new one made - usually cheaper than a new bottom yoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty7Fifty Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Nice work buddy! First time reading this all the way thru, excellent pics and details. Thanks for taking the time and being thorough with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenewwazoo Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 How are you guys dealing with the various linkage options? I've spent some time swapping around the VFR and CBR parts, and I think I've settled on VFR dogbone, CBR plates, and VFR shock. Which is a goddamned shame because I've got an Öhlins from the CBR laying around. :( That setup gives me what feels like a bit less leverage on the spring (read: stiffer), and raises the seat by a solid inch, maybe an inch and a half. My hope is that the CBR plates will give me a bit more linearity, too. Does anyone have a copy of the Foale software to run the numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted December 29, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted December 29, 2015 How are you guys dealing with the various linkage options? I've spent some time swapping around the VFR and CBR parts, and I think I've settled on VFR dogbone, CBR plates, and VFR shock. Which is a goddamned shame because I've got an Öhlins from the CBR laying around. :( That setup gives me what feels like a bit less leverage on the spring (read: stiffer), and raises the seat by a solid inch, maybe an inch and a half. My hope is that the CBR plates will give me a bit more linearity, too. Does anyone have a copy of the Foale software to run the numbers? I'm using the 954 triangles and dogbone as recommended by Jamie and my shock is sprung/dampened for this linkage... based on my previous measurements the 929 shock was custom made to length to give me the same rear ride height as my current streetbike 5th gen which also has a DMr modified 929 that added ride height over stock. I'd have to go dig up my old notes to find out how much over stock but as a reference my rear tire is firmly on the ground when on the center stand. I did notice when I was in the garage recently it looks like my 954 triangles on my trackbike are upside down on the swingarm like I was trying to lower the ride height. I didn't do this on purpose, but I think I may have inadvertently given myself the ability to raise the rear even more if needed since I don't recall removing them since the shock length measurements were made. Hopefully, this weekend I'll get back in the garage and get the new bearings pressed in and the rear properly mounted for full confirmation of function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenewwazoo Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'd have to go dig up my old notes to find out how much over stock but as a reference my rear tire is firmly on the ground when on the center stand. I'd love to know the specs for that shock, if only so I can have DMr do the same for me! I really am just riding your coattails here lately, huh? First Seb, and now DMr. When you find an exhaust for the rear head, order two! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenewwazoo Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I just spent some time in the garage, and using my very cheapest yardstick, some twine, and my highly calibrated eyeball, I came up with a triangle of ~130, ~540, and ~555mm between the swingarm pivot, the rear axle, and the perpendicular of the two as defined by the line between the front and rear axles. That means I've got ~13.5° swingarm angle at full droop. If you're remembering correctly about rotating the triangles, that sounds like a wee bit less height would put me in the ballpark of 12.5°, which is my goal. I might hop back out there in a bit, rotate the triangles and measure again to see where it gets me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiKenG Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 1000rr offset is NOT the same, it's only 25mm. What makes you say that Seb? I have a 2012 CBR1000RR here and as far as I can tell, without stripping the parts out to measure accurately, it uses the same 30mm offset as the 929/954 and RVT. I'm also pretty sure the CBR1000RR hasn't changed in this respect since 2008 when they first switched to 204mm fork spacing. So I'd be very surprised if the CBR1000RR 2004-7 was different at 25mm offset. But I don't have any parts here to check that. If you're sure, I'll go find a 2012 yoke/clamp and confirm with better measurement. Anyone got 2004-7 parts to confirm those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 1000rr offset is NOT the same, it's only 25mm. What makes you say that Seb? I have a 2012 CBR1000RR here and as far as I can tell, without stripping the parts out to measure accurately, it uses the same 30mm offset as the 929/954 and RVT. I'm also pretty sure the CBR1000RR hasn't changed in this respect since 2008 when they first switched to 204mm fork spacing. So I'd be very surprised if the CBR1000RR 2004-7 was different at 25mm offset. But I don't have any parts here to check that. If you're sure, I'll go find a 2012 yoke/clamp and confirm with better measurement. Anyone got 2004-7 parts to confirm those? My comment was with regard to the 04-07 models. I have/had 929/954 and 05 triples in hand, and measured the 05 1000RR top triple to have 25mm offset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiKenG Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 1000rr offset is NOT the same, it's only 25mm. What makes you say that Seb? I have a 2012 CBR1000RR here and as far as I can tell, without stripping the parts out to measure accurately, it uses the same 30mm offset as the 929/954 and RVT. I'm also pretty sure the CBR1000RR hasn't changed in this respect since 2008 when they first switched to 204mm fork spacing. So I'd be very surprised if the CBR1000RR 2004-7 was different at 25mm offset. But I don't have any parts here to check that. If you're sure, I'll go find a 2012 yoke/clamp and confirm with better measurement. Anyone got 2004-7 parts to confirm those? My comment was with regard to the 04-07 models. I have/had 929/954 and 05 triples in hand, and measured the 05 1000RR top triple to have 25mm offset. Hm, that's news to me. Not saying you're wrong, but I was unaware of this. I've never worked on an 04-7 CBR1000R, so never able to check this. Good information. But I think you made the right choice in 35mm offset. Dropping to even 30mm significantly increases trail and 25mm would be even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted February 27, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 27, 2016 FWIW (...) my data says that Seb is right, and that the offset in 2008 changed to 27.5mm. That may actually be incorrect (I collect data from many sources believed "reliable", but I didn't measure them myself), but the difference between 30mm and 27.5mm might be too small to eyeball. It'd be great if you could measure your CBR1000RR's yokes. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiKenG Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 I'll dig out my spare 2012 yokes and get a better measurement. I am sure that 2008 on are all the same, i.e. from when they switched to the narrower 204mm width. I am even more sure that the 929, 954 and RVTs were all 30mm (with 214mm width). It's the 2004-7 that I've never handled, but assumed to be the same 30mm as their predecessor. Apparently not. I've since looked at some pictures that indicate they are indeed a smaller offset, but impossible to be precise. However, with now some doubt as to whether it's 25 or 27mm, we need to confirm. Hang on that was 08 you thought might be 27? Now I'm getting confused. I might just be getting hold of an 04-07 bottom yoke and I already have 954, RVT and 2012 CBR, so then I'll have the set. Anyway, today I'll dig out the 2012 ones I have and check them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiKenG Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 I dug out my RR12 yokes and measured the best I can comes to 27.5mm offset. Using the same method shows 929 to be 30mm and VFR1200 is 35mm, all of which tallies to other data so I think it's correct. I think I'm surprised the RR12 is 27.5, but now I come to think of it, I don't think I ever checked as with the narrow 204mm width, they were of no interest for possible use on other bikes. But now we know. I would just like to confirm the RR4-7. Watch this space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted February 27, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 27, 2016 Some very good info here, thanks for confirming certain data subsets as I know which to avoid when scrubbing the auction sites. What is the width of the VFR1200 as it seems to be close enough to VFR800 offset for me to move forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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