Member Contributer Bassie Posted July 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 22, 2014 I run RON95 as you can't lower in Europe, never used anything else. It's called "EuroSuper" or "EuroPremium" or "Regular unleaded", the most common fuel we have. You can compare it to 90-91 in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adg44 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I run RON95 as you can't lower in Europe, never used anything else. It's called "EuroSuper" or "EuroPremium" or "Regular unleaded", the most common fuel we have. You can compare it to 90-91 in the USA. Yes, it needs to be clarified that we are using AKI for octane in the US, and RON most other places. The fuel quality in Europe is also considerably better than we get here in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer awacs Posted July 23, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2014 You might want to rebuild the rear hub, replace the cush rubbers. As others have said, check and probably replace the steering head bearings. Safe riding, Aram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MadScientist Posted July 23, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2014 Right, I forgot about the cush drive. Yes, they are probably shot, mine were when I opened it up for a refresh this spring (@32k mi.). Also during the backend rebuild, I did notice a significant amount of corrosion on the swingarm pivot axle. Out of all the ball/roller bearings on the rear suspension and hub, three of mine needed replacement. If you open the backend up, use Larry's method (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/65755-removing-rear-axle/?p=776129) to clean the rear bearing. I was definitely surprised by the amount of debris I cleaned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted July 23, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2014 Right, I forgot about the cush drive. Yes, they are probably shot, mine were when I opened it up for a refresh this spring (@32k mi.). Also during the backend rebuild, I did notice a significant amount of corrosion on the swingarm pivot axle. Out of all the ball/roller bearings on the rear suspension and hub, three of mine needed replacement. If you open the backend up, use Larry's method (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/65755-removing-rear-axle/?p=776129) to clean the rear bearing. I was definitely surprised by the amount of debris I cleaned out. Yes I also replaced the cush drive a couple of months ago. The rubbers were hard and broken into two bits, and with the new rubbers in place the bike is much smoother pulling away at low revs. I was planning on cleaning and greasing the rear bearings at the same time but I was unable to get the axle to shift out of the bearing, so I suspect that there is plenty of corrosion in there, sadly. Even getting the cush-drive out took a fair bit of hammering. Once I got the sprocket carrier and cush drive off and dropped the calliper off, I put a piece of wood over the end of the axle and pounded on it with a hammer, but it would not budge. Fortunately, the eccentric adjuster moves nicely, and I can't detect any play or binding in the rear axle so for now I will leave this area alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted July 24, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 24, 2014 Last night I pulled the airbox off, and checked for any obvious vacuum hose damage, and also checked the fuel pressure regulator. I pulled the vacuum hose off and ran the fuel pump to pressurise the system a few times, but nothing leaked out of the vacuum line. Does anyone know if that conclusively rules out the FPR as faulty? I'm still keen to identify why my fuel consumptions sucks. Was also a chance to collect two bolts that I have managed to lose from the front of the tank during prior maintenance. Hooray for a long screwdriver and Blutack! As I hate to leave the bike disassembled, I buttoned everything back up last night, but I will dive back in over the weekend and clean the air filter, and I plan to check the IAT and MAP sensors to see if they are doing the right thing electrically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrcapn Posted July 25, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 25, 2014 I've done a bunch of stuff that didn't need to be done. Other than the usual electrical, 2nd gear started to go at 80K M. Replaced motor with wrecker "guaranteed" 25K motor and 2nd is still bad. Maybe it's a 2nd gear virus...? Other than that the usual maintenance stuff. Fuel mileage has dropped off over the years, 41-42mpg in town to now 38. But I did a very easy 150m ride last weekend and got over 43mpg. So I suspect it's a lot to do with my riding style changing over the years. Oh, and the paint is noticeably fading now, the upper edges of the right fairing are going pinkish, too many summers sitting out at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted July 25, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 25, 2014 I've done a bunch of stuff that didn't need to be done. Other than the usual electrical, 2nd gear started to go at 80K M. Replaced motor with wrecker "guaranteed" 25K motor and 2nd is still bad. Maybe it's a 2nd gear virus...? Other than that the usual maintenance stuff. Fuel mileage has dropped off over the years, 41-42mpg in town to now 38. But I did a very easy 150m ride last weekend and got over 43mpg. So I suspect it's a lot to do with my riding style changing over the years. Oh, and the paint is noticeably fading now, the upper edges of the right fairing are going pinkish, too many summers sitting out at work. The 2nd gear virus affects quite a few bikes. My last bike (Suzuki RF900) caught the disease at about 20,000km, and it was an engine out job to repair. Go on, ask me how heavy the motor was when I picked it up and put it in the back of my car...better still, ask my chiropractor!. In the case of the Suzuki, the mating surfaces between the dogs and the gears were roughcast on 2nd gear, and after some wear the dogs would jump out of their engagement slots with a big lurch under hard acceleration. I think as a general rule manufacturers do this sort of thing to make it easier for riders to slip the bike into neutral at a standstill, but it makes for a more tenuous hold in gear. The higher gears tend to be undercut (the surfaces are machined with a ramp that pulls the gear and dog together under power) and so tend not to give such frequent trouble. It is possible to get the gears undercut when they fail and put them back into service (I just bought new ones), but you also need to replace the shift fork (the thin blade that reaches between the gear and moves the gears/dogs along the shaft) as these flex whenever the gears "pop-out" and can eventually snap; you don't want big bits of metal floating around in your gearbox. You can see the wear in the back of the gear below, with the rounded over corners where the dogs from the next gear have jumped out under power. The bottom picture shows the shift fork and the wear along its length where it has contacted the side of a gear . Hope this doesn't happen to my VFR... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted July 25, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 25, 2014 I've had a fun couple of nights tinkering. I confirmed the fuel pressure regulator diaphragm wasn't leaking but I still think it is the cause of the high fuel consumption so I ordered a replacement. Tonight I cleaned the air filter and also checked the flapper actuator was working with my brake vacuum bleeder. Then I started the beast up and it idled badly until I revved it, then the dreaded FI light came on. So I put a jumper into the diagnostic socket and looked at the error codes....and lost count of the types! Then I remembered that all faults previously recorded show up until the register is cleared. So I did that, restarted the bike, and this time just got a single fault for the MAP sensor. Turns out some idiot (who looked a lot like me) had left the MAP vacuum hose off. Sorted this and cleared the fault register again and the problem is now gone. I believe I recorded the lot of faults when I tested the FPR as I had the airbox and associated hoses and couplings removed for this. Live and learn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted July 27, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 27, 2014 Everything ! Sorry had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted July 27, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 27, 2014 On a more specific note re fuel consumption, only a couple of things generally affect fuel consumption. 1. How you ride revving hard everywhere will cost you fuel. 2. Engine operating temp, as the fuel tables are temperature adjusted, so a cold or cool running engine burns more fuel. The FPR will NOT affect fuel consumption, the ECU sends a duty cycle signal to the injectors regardless of pressure, so low pressure will mean lower fuel consumption. But the MAP & intake temp sensors will affect fuel consumption, so a dirty air filter will save fuel, unlike a carbed bike where it costs fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNRabbit Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 FPR CAN affect fuel consumption IF it's leaking into the vacuum hose~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted July 28, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 28, 2014 On a more specific note re fuel consumption, only a couple of things generally affect fuel consumption. 1. How you ride revving hard everywhere will cost you fuel. 2. Engine operating temp, as the fuel tables are temperature adjusted, so a cold or cool running engine burns more fuel. The FPR will NOT affect fuel consumption, the ECU sends a duty cycle signal to the injectors regardless of pressure, so low pressure will mean lower fuel consumption. But the MAP & intake temp sensors will affect fuel consumption, so a dirty air filter will save fuel, unlike a carbed bike where it costs fuel. Sorry Mohawk, I can't agree with you on the statement about the FPR. Fuel pressure is a critical part of the equation, that is why the regulator exists in the first place. There is a combination of a spring and a vacuum diaphragm in the FPR, the function of these is to hold the fuel pressure at a preset 250kPa above the air-pressure in the intakes. The function of the vacuum line to the FPR is to cause a reduction in fuel pressure when the vacuum level increases. Fuel injectors do not inject fuel in the same way as a syringe (i.e. a fixed volume) they are simple electrically energised valves that stay open for a the time determined by the ECU. The open time of the injector is what the ECU is varying depending on all of the input variables like throttle position, MAP etc. The volume of flow through the injector is then proportional to the open time...provided the fuel pressure is a constant. I agree that the fuel consumption can be higher if the diaphragm leaks into the vacuum line (but I don't think that is my problem, I checked that) but I have read that another mode of failure is a sticking regulator which can lead to higher pressures in the fuel rail. It is quite true that I ride the bike for fun and not for economy. However I have a strong suspicion that all is not as it should be with respect to the FI and that bugs me, so I have ordered a new FPR and I will report back as to whether this has made any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted July 28, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 28, 2014 That is the injectors duty cycle as it is technically known, so yes we are in agreement on mode of operation. But if the fuel pressure is low, as in caused by the fault you were expecting with the FPR, then the amount of fuel delivered per duty cycle would be less, not more. If the fuel line was over pressurised, then more fuel would be burned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted July 29, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 29, 2014 Mmmm....I'm not fuel injection expert Mohawk. Just trying to feel my way through. However it seems to me I could get higher pressure if the vacuum line or diaphragm leaked, because the function of the vacuum system is to reduce fuel pressure to match intake vacuum. So less vacuum, higher fuel pressure. I'm surprised that there's so many VFR owners out there who get similar poor fuel consumption yet no one seems to know why? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted September 12, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted September 12, 2014 I managed to swap the fuel pressure regulator out without pulling the throttle bodies tonight. I did pull the airbox right out to get access. The only difficult part is when unscrewing the FPR, the hose connections on the FPR foul the starter valves and idle screw. I found that if I removed the idle screw altogether, then pulled the two 10mm bolts that secure the starter valve bank to the rail, the starters can be moved clear. Its fiddly but doable. A word of warning is that fuel will leak out of the fuel return hose, so you need to clamp that when it comes off the FPR. Fuel also comes out of the rail when you pull the FPR, so be ready with the replacement and make the swap quick. Tomorrow will be a re-synch for the starters and a test ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted September 12, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 12, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misspent Youth Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Age-related (as opposed to mileage-related) items to me include anything made of rubber (brake/fuel/coolant lines, cush rubbers, suspension seals [linkage, shock shaft oil seal and fork oil seals - both of which are also mileage-related]), fluids (brake/clutch/coolant/fuel), electrical connectors (subject to corrosion and increased resistance/heat), plastic body panels (nubs get brittle), and tank rust. Brake/clutch master/slave cylinder rubbers and caliper fluid/dust seals deteriorate based on age and use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ticket Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I'm now at 50K and while Big Red is still running strong ... there's a bit of roughness to it ... no longer glass smooth.But it does idle very smoothly and well. I'm starting to think a partially-plugged fuel injector or two. (It sat almost all of last winter due to personal reasons.) I think I'll do the PAIR valve block, new sparkplugs, and sync the starter valves (it's never been done) and see if those items have any affect. If it's still not quite right -- I'll clean the fuel injectors and starting moving down the list. Cheers! E-Ticket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keny Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Well, this is a question I ask myself also. I have a engine that warms up fast at idle, but at highways the temp drops fast to around 77C. I been woundering about the thermostat. I on other hand get a fule consumtion around 47MPG, I use the bike to ride to work basically, so highway riding on 80/100km/h restricted roads (+10-20km/h...practiacally). The real problem I have now is the clutch vibrates and make a funny noice if let at higher RPM, also brakes start to feel swampy. So things to do next winter. And I think I will check the valves once also, mine has 86k kms on the clock, and I have no idea when they are checked last time. Other option is to sell it and get a RC24(1986-89VFR) again, but then you dont get any money for a 5th gen these days, and RC24´s are getting higher in prize...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Bassie Posted September 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 17, 2014 Mine 5th Gen (2000) has also 80kkm on the clock. Other then the regular replacements like: brakes, oil, oil-filter, air-filter, chain and sprockets etc nothing special ever happened. One thing did break and that was the dampening-rubbers that connect the wheel with the rear sprocket, those gone bad, making weird noises when go on/off the gas. Sounds like a rear-spring that went bust, but it's those rubbers. Never did anything else to it and spins like a satisfied kitten on your lap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RolandHTG Posted September 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 17, 2014 I don't come here often anymore because my 99 is now basically a commuter bike. My tourer has been a Concours14 since 2007 and my sporter is a Ducati 1098 plus I have a KLX250s for dirt and gravel. I have 140,000+ miles on the 99 and it has been pretty trouble free since I replaced a shorted main wiring harness at about 55,000 and grafted in a Yamaha R/R. The multitude of electrical gremlins suffered in the first 50-60 thousand miles are gone. Non electical over the years I have replaced a clutch (at 60,000) which was probably not needed, replaced rear shock, had forks rebuilt, tapered stem bearings installed, themostat. Like someone else I had a drop off of mpg and noticed my oil level increasing with no noticeable change in performance other than mpg. All the usual checks were negative so I sent my injectors to RC Engineering for flow testing and sonic cleaning and balancing. Test showed 3 injectors fair but one "dripping". This was at about 132,00 miles. Since installing the cleaned/reworked injectors mpg is back to 42 and oil level never changes between 6000 mile changes. Back to electrical category, two radiator fan switches have failed, I am running a manual switch for now. And I wore out a clutch lever. Commuter duty! LOL Now the reason I visited today: I think my starter motor is going bad. So far it has not failed to start the engine but 3 times it has struggled and caused the display panel to reset. It could be a dirty switch but it has only happened when the engine is hot (200F or more) so I suspect the starter motor has high resistance when it get hot and is drawing excess current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted September 18, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted September 18, 2014 Thanks for an interesting post Roland. I confess that a drippy injector hadn't been in my thoughts as a cause of high fuel consumption and rising oil level until I changed the FPR last week. Then I discovered that fuel happily gravity feeds into the rail both through the pump but also the return line, so a leaky injector would probably drip when the engine is off. I had assumed with the pump off that fuel would not flow but the puddle on the floor soon changed my mind! Regarding your starter I'd suggest it is more likely the battery getting tired. The output drops when the cells get hot. I noticed the exact same symptoms but they don't happen if I use a trickle charger. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RolandHTG Posted September 19, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 19, 2014 Thanks for an interesting post Roland. I confess that a drippy injector hadn't been in my thoughts as a cause of high fuel consumption and rising oil level until I changed the FPR last week. Then I discovered that fuel happily gravity feeds into the rail both through the pump but also the return line, so a leaky injector would probably drip when the engine is off. I had assumed with the pump off that fuel would not flow but the puddle on the floor soon changed my mind! Regarding your starter I'd suggest it is more likely the battery getting tired. The output drops when the cells get hot. I noticed the exact same symptoms but they don't happen if I use a trickle charger. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I keep mine on a trickle charger too and have an on board voltmeter and that shows good resting and charging voltage so I am not suspecting a tired battery but I will check everything out before I buy a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CHUCK2 Posted August 21, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted August 21, 2017 On 7/23/2014 at 2:32 PM, MadScientist said: Right, I forgot about the cush drive. Yes, they are probably shot, mine were when I opened it up for a refresh this spring (@32k mi.). Also during the backend rebuild, I did notice a significant amount of corrosion on the swingarm pivot axle. Out of all the ball/roller bearings on the rear suspension and hub, three of mine needed replacement. If you open the backend up, use Larry's method (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/65755-removing-rear-axle/?p=776129) to clean the rear bearing. I was definitely surprised by the amount of debris I cleaned out. Â Does anyone have any info about "Larry's method of cleaning the rear {wheel} bearing" ? The link no longer works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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