Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted January 14, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 14, 2014 Actually, it's the other way around. These oils start out with different base oils. The first number (0,5,10) are their viscosity index. "W" is not weight; it signifies that the oil is rated for Winter service. Then they are tweaked with polymer additives to varying degrees of thinning at higher temps. The second number (30) represents the same degree of thinning at operating temp as the equivalent base oil (without VI improvers). So all these with the 30 at the end will have similar VI at operating temps as straight 30. Negative... The first number is the grade at 104º F because the viscosity index for Mobil 1 0w30 is 180 where as 5W30 is 170 and W does not stand for the word winter... The W is just a designation of one type of testing vs another. if you personally asked API if W stands for "winter" and they flatly said "no". Quote SAE on actual cSt viscosity per grade of oil at 212ºF... 20, 5.6 - 9.2 30, 9.3 - 12.4 40, 12.5 - 16.2 50, 16.3 - 21.8 60, 21.9 - 26.1 Qoute SAE J300 p.2: "Two series of viscosity grades are defined in Table (1): (a) those containing the letter W and (b) those without. Single viscosity grade oils with the letter W are defined by maximum low temperature cranking and pumping viscosities and a minimum kinematic viscosity at 100C. Single grade oils without the letter W are based on a set of minimum and maximum kinematic viscosities at 100C and a minimum high shear rate viscosity at 150C. The shear rate will depend on the test method. Multigrade grade oils are defined by both of these criteria.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Actually, it's the other way around. These oils start out with different base oils. The first number (0,5,10) are their viscosity index. "W" is not weight; it signifies that the oil is rated for Winter service. Then they are tweaked with polymer additives to varying degrees of thinning at higher temps. The second number (30) represents the same degree of thinning at operating temp as the equivalent base oil (without VI improvers). So all these with the 30 at the end will have similar VI at operating temps as straight 30. Negative... The first number is the grade at 104º F because the viscosity index for Mobil 1 0w30 is 180 where as 5W30 is 170 and W does not stand for the word winter... The W is just a designation of one type of testing vs another. if you personally asked API if W stands for "winter" and they flatly said "no". Quote SAE on actual cSt viscosity per grade of oil at 212ºF... 20, 5.6 - 9.2 30, 9.3 - 12.4 40, 12.5 - 16.2 50, 16.3 - 21.8 60, 21.9 - 26.1 Qoute SAE J300 p.2: "Two series of viscosity grades are defined in Table (1): (a) those containing the letter W and (b) those without. Single viscosity grade oils with the letter W are defined by maximum low temperature cranking and pumping viscosities and a minimum kinematic viscosity at 100C. Single grade oils without the letter W are based on a set of minimum and maximum kinematic viscosities at 100C and a minimum high shear rate viscosity at 150C. The shear rate will depend on the test method. Multigrade grade oils are defined by both of these criteria.... Negatory. W does signify Winter. These motor oil viscosity grades are rated by SAE. If you are asking API, you are asking the wrong people. In the United States, the original organization that sets the standards for performance of motor oils is the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). In 1911, SAE published the first version of their standard (SAE J300). They were designated as SAE 10, 20, 30 etc. A major change was made in 1952 when the original set of grade designations was augmented with the addition of a set of winter (“W”) grade designations (10W, 15W, 20W, 25W, 30W) which were specified by viscosity measured at 0° F. SAE made further modifications to these ratings based on additional problems that arose with the advent of multigrade oils, but the basic designations remain: First number (with W attached) is VG at low temp. Second number (without W) is VG at higher temp. See here for more details: http://www.ideas4ag-ed.com/uploads/3/7/0/4/3704787/stan_toepfer_understanding_motor_oil_viscosity.pdf Subsequently, API began certifying motor oils based on a multitude of performance criteria, as specified here: http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/categories/upload/motor_oil_guide_2010_120210.pdf However, API clearly defers the viscosity ratings to SAE, as marked in the center circle in every API cert label (e.g. SAE 5W-30). FWIW, in my line of work, I also deal with specifying oils for industrial application, such as hydraulic oils. They carry different Viscosity Index systems that addresses criteria that are pertinent to their application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 This is an excerpt from the URL listed in above post, showing the current SAE J300 Spec as of yr 1999: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted January 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 16, 2014 Negatory. W does signify Winter. The W does not stand for the word "winter"... The W is just a designation of one type of testing vs another. if you personally asked API or SAE if W stands for "winter" and they flatly said "no" Qoute SAE J300 p.2: "Two series of viscosity grades are defined in Table (1): (a) those containing the letter W and (b) those without. Single viscosity grade oils with the letter W are defined by maximum low temperature cranking and pumping viscosities and a minimum kinematic viscosity at 100C. Single grade oils without the letter W are based on a set of minimum and maximum kinematic viscosities at 100C and a minimum high shear rate viscosity at 150C. The shear rate will depend on the test method. Multigrade grade oils are defined by both of these criteria.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted January 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 16, 2014 Another oil thread ? What ever happen to Slick 50 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted January 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 16, 2014 It must be "slick 110" now to bring it into the 21st century ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Just put motorcycle oil API SF or higher and JASO MA roughly 10W40 like the Honda manual says... so 15W50... 5W30... you won't be far off... It's not rocket science. It's Crotch Rocket science damn it... now get out and ride!!! Oh no... it's snowing in most of 'Merica right? so you've nothing bettter to do than... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 The W does not stand for the word "winter"... The W is just a designation of one type of testing vs another. if you personally asked API or SAE if W stands for "winter" and they flatly said "no" Mkay... I'll leave it at my posts #52 and #53 above. is right. Let's 42F this morning leaving home. It'll be a glorious 69F going home this afternoon. Eeeha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted January 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 16, 2014 so you've nothing bettter to do than... or ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted January 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 16, 2014 It must be "slick 110" now to bring it into the 21st century ;) "220... 221... Whatever it takes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted January 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 16, 2014 The W does not stand for the word "winter"... The W is just a designation of one type of testing vs another. if you personally asked API or SAE if W stands for "winter" and they flatly said "no" Mkay... I'll leave it at my posts #52 and #53 above. is right. Let's 42F this morning leaving home. It'll be a glorious 69F going home this afternoon. Eeeha! Now what oil would you recommend for that temperature ? That's funny right there !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 42F this morning leaving home. It'll be a glorious 69F going home this afternoon. Eeeha! Now what oil would you recommend for that temperature ? Dudes with white short and taped glasses at SAE say 0W30 for the morning ride, switching to 10W-30 in the afternoon... lest I wish to risk catastrophic engine failure. And they want me to report back results so they can revise testing protocol for their 2015 edition of J300... and the possibly to change definition of "W" to WTF. API could not be reached for comment. The committee members are all still at BP's hospitality suite for the post-OTC VIP party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer V-FORE Posted January 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 16, 2014 42F this morning leaving home. It'll be a glorious 69F going home this afternoon. Eeeha! Now what oil would you recommend for that temperature ? Dudes with white short and taped glasses at SAE say 0W30 for the morning ride, switching to 10W-30 in the afternoon... lest I wish to risk catastrophic engine failure. And they want me to report back results so they can revise testing protocol for their 2015 edition of J300... and the possibly to change definition of "W" to WTF. API could not be reached for comment. The committee members are all still at BP's hospitality suite for the post-OTC VIP party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted January 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 16, 2014 42F this morning leaving home. It'll be a glorious 69F going home this afternoon. Eeeha! Now what oil would you recommend for that temperature ? Dudes with white short and taped glasses at SAE say 0W30 for the morning ride, switching to 10W-30 in the afternoon... lest I wish to risk catastrophic engine failure. And they want me to report back results so they can revise testing protocol for their 2015 edition of J300... and the possibly to change definition of "W" to WTF. API could not be reached for comment. The committee members are all still at BP's hospitality suite for the post-OTC VIP party. +2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted January 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 16, 2014 It must be "slick 110" now to bring it into the 21st century ;) "220... 221... Whatever it takes" Yeah, change that oil after you feed some chili to the baby Mr. Mom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted January 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 16, 2014 Tough Crowd .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted January 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 17, 2014 Mkay... I'll leave it at my posts #52 and #53 above. I've read post #52 #53 carefully and did not note any API or SAE quote to the contrary to the fact that the W does not stand for the word "winter"... The W is just a designation of one type of testing vs another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfunkomatic Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Belray, Valvoline and others make oil. They say "winter". But I guess they have no idea what they are talking about. http://www.belray.com/what-exactly-do-multi-visc-designations-mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted January 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 17, 2014 It must be "slick 110" now to bring it into the 21st century ;) "220... 221... Whatever it takes" Yeah, change that oil after you feed some chili to the baby Mr. Mom... Only 4 hrs for someone to get my obscure movie reference... Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 C'mon. Everybody knows that famous Mr. Mom quote. Speaking of movie quotes, here is one that I think is very appropriate here: My father used to say: "The first time someone calls you a horse you punch him on the nose, the second time someone calls you a horse you call him a jerk but the third time someone calls you a horse, well then perhaps it's time to go shopping for a saddle." Care to guess which movie is it from? No Googling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted January 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 17, 2014 Belray, Valvoline and others make oil. They say "winter". But I guess they have no idea what they are talking about. http://www.belray.com/what-exactly-do-multi-visc-designations-mean They make oil but API is the source of the W in 10W30 and they flatly state the W does not stand for the word "winter"... The W is just a designation of one type of testing vs another... you can challenge Belray on this trivia point and win... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 May be time to shop for a saddle.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted January 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 17, 2014 C'mon. Everybody knows that famous Mr. Mom quote. Speaking of movie quotes, here is one that I think is very appropriate here: My father used to say: "The first time someone calls you a horse you punch him on the nose, the second time someone calls you a horse you call him a jerk but the third time someone calls you a horse, well then perhaps it's time to go shopping for a saddle." Care to guess which movie is it from? No Googling... Yeh that's old ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted January 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 17, 2014 Not that old....you just don't know the Rabbi Switchblade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted January 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 17, 2014 Lucky 7 ??? The Rabbi: [whispering to Slevin] Whatever they're paying you... [smiles slyly] Slevin: [chuckles slightly] There is no "they..." I did this to you. Me. The Rabbi: You? Slevin: Me. The Boss: Who are you? Slevin: Listen, I've been hearing that a lot lately-- The Rabbi: [interrupting] My father used to say: "The first time someone calls you a horse you punch him on the nose, the second time someone calls you a horse you call him a jerk but the third time someone calls you a horse, well then perhaps it's time to go shopping for a saddle." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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