Clutch & Brake bleeding - too much for me. Dealer an option?

[marriedman]

Since I was feeling pretty confident after doing my recent bouts of maintenance, I decided to read the Service Manual and see how bad changing the clutch and brake fluid would be. Well, after reading 15 pages of just the brake bleeding instructions, I have decided it is too involved for one of my limited skills.

How bad would a dealer screw me over? Monetarily that is.

[SEBSPEED]

Find someone local to help you. You'd be surprised at how far a lunch and/or adult beverage might go.

[Duc2V4]

Dealers charge by the hour and for whatever parts, fluids and disposal fees that they can charge for, so you're probably looking at a decent amount of money, depending on their hourly labor rate is of course. You should be able to do the clutch yourself as there is only 1 line to worry about. Although the linked braking system can be a little intimidating so I feel for you there. Sometime in the near future I plan on swapping out the rubber hoses for steel braided lines and I am still debating on whether I will do this job myself. I'm not afraid of doing it, as I have experience working on vehicles, it's the time and work space that keeps me from just jumping in and doing it.

Try doing the clutch yourself and see if you feel OK with that. It's always possible one of our members close to you with experience can lend a hand. Maybe cost you an afternoon, some pizza and beer and you get to learn something and meet someone from the forum.

Cheers.

[jeremy77]

Find someone local to help you. You'd be surprised at how far a lunch and/or adult beverage might go.

:+1:

[marriedman]

Sometime in the near future I plan on swapping out the rubber hoses for steel braided lines

That was one of the first things I wanted to do to this bike, until I saw the price tag on just the lines! Sticker shock is an understatement.

Find someone local to help you. You'd be surprised at how far a lunch and/or adult beverage might go.

I thought about that, but the guy local to me de-linked his brakes and said he had never done the stock brake lines.

I have a friend who works on cars that might be able to help, but I have no idea if he has experience with linked brake systems.

[Duc2V4]

Bleeding a line is the same all around, it's the different bleed points in the linked braking system that makes it seem more complicated than it really is. If your local guy is mechanically inclined I don't see why you two wouldn't be successful. I believe the workshop manual details the process enough to do it yourself (or with help). Have your friend read the manual and see what he thinks. If he thinks it's beyond his skill level, then take it to a reputable shop, preferably one who knows linked braking systems.

Cheers

[mk2davis]

I avoid dealerships when possible. I like Duc's advice, try the clutch either with yourself or with a friend. Hopefully you'll feel more confident to do the brakes, and if not then at least your keeping some money in your pocket. The fact that your manual goes into such detail is a good thing. Just go step by step.

[SEBSPEED]

Plenty of previously documented instances here as well. Take some time and search here. You can do it!

[Dutchy]

Whereas me, I prefer to pay a dealer (Arie Molenaar, a renowned one) for this critical work. From what I recall it was less than an hour labor, about enough time for a free coffee and a wander around the sales floor....

[awacs]

Since I was feeling pretty confident after doing my recent bouts of maintenance, I decided to read the Service Manual and see how bad changing the clutch and brake fluid would be. Well, after reading 15 pages of just the brake bleeding instructions, I have decided it is too involved for one of my limited skills.

How bad would a dealer screw me over? Monetarily that is.

Hmmm. Your profile indicates that you have a 4th gen. that should be considerably easier to bleed than more recent issues (which have front and rear brakes connected). Here's a couple of thoughts for you.

1) Don't bleed them!

"Say what?"

Bleeding is how you get air out of the hydraulics. Air gets introduced only if a) you have drained the system entirely (perhaps to clean it), or b) you screwed up and sucked air while replacing brake fluid. In other words, there's no need to have air to bleed air, in the first place. (The shop manual takes you through the process from empty to full. You don't have to worry about that, since your system is full to start with).

Instead, chase the old fluid out with new fluid. This is *much* easier. Which brings me to...

2) Install something called Speedbleeders in place of the the brake bleeding ports. Speedbleeders are one-way valves (check valves) that allow fluid out, but prevent air from being sucked in. They'll cost you a few bucks, but probably a lot less than your mechanic will pound you for, and well worth every penny.

3) Not a necessity with Speedbleeders installed, but having a hand-held vacuum pump makes the process easier. Many of us use Mityvac's offerings, which serves the purpose well for not a lot of money.

4) Get a second person to top off the master master cylinders periodically, while you suck the old fluid out at the calipers. They can also work the brake levers to run fluid though the system, and out the bleed ports.

If you have no context for this yet, don't worry. it's really not all that hard. Read any internet description of brake bleeding, and you'll quickly get the idea. It's scary the first time, but soon just another task to get done.

Finally, and this happens to all of us (c'mon, admit it guys), sometimes you do get an air bubble. Learned a nifty trick once that works wonders. Compress the brake overnight (for example, by tightening the brake lever with a tie wrap around the right grip. A little more ingenuity is required for the rear brake). In the morning, release the brake lever. Bleed out a bit of brake fluid. Top off reservoir. Check brakes. Ride.

Seriously, first time jitters(and they are reasonable!) will pass. If you are at all mechanically inclined, go for it.

Good luck,

Aram

[marriedman]

Hmmm. Your profile indicates that you have a 4th gen. that should be considerably easier to bleed than more recent issues (which have front and rear brakes connected).

Mine is a 99 5th gen (right?). The brake system on this one is linked, isn't it?

[awacs]

Hmmm. Your profile indicates that you have a 4th gen. that should be considerably easier to bleed than more recent issues (which have front and rear brakes connected).

Mine is a 99 5th gen (right?). The brake system on this one is linked, isn't it?

Oops, sorry. I must have read the wrong profile. Yep, linked.

That said, I stand by my previous rambling. Chase the old out with the new, not too hard.

Aram

[LookingHard]

marriedman,

Will this help...........................?

LH

[Duc2V4]

Awacs makes some good points and the speed bleeders will probably make things easier too. However, if you weren't inclined to replace your bleeders, Motion Pro makes an "inline" speed bleeder tool that works just like the speed bleeders except you don't have to replace anything. http://motionpro.com...o_mini_bleeder/ It is pricey, $24.99 (MSRP) but it's probably cheaper/easier than replacing all your bleeders. There's also a poorman's version of a speed bleeder, I haven't tried this yet but may give it a go when I do the clutch on the Ducati. http://pstca.com/art...htm#TheSolution

I think that giving your clutch a go at first, you'll see it isn't all that difficult.

Cheers.

[Tamworth]

Since I was feeling pretty confident after doing my recent bouts of maintenance, I decided to read the Service Manual and see how bad changing the clutch and brake fluid would be. Well, after reading 15 pages of just the brake bleeding instructions, I have decided it is too involved for one of my limited skills.

How bad would a dealer screw me over? Monetarily that is.

Dealers don't "screw you over" , they offer trained, licensed, insured mechanics who know exactly what they are doing, for this they charge the going rate and they know how to do it without wasting time, their work is also warrantied. When you leave the dealer after a brake service you know it's done right, and you don't have to spend weeks on a forum trying to figure out why the brakes still feel spongy or why a caliper won't release. If you want your linked brakes to work perfectly every time you need them then don't trust some local guy looking for food or beer, and don't trust your self if you don't feel confident that you know exactly what you're doing. Trust a trained mechanic who's done it many times and is properly insured to service your brake system.

That's one way to do it.

[Switchblade]

Since I was feeling pretty confident after doing my recent bouts of maintenance, I decided to read the Service Manual and see how bad changing the clutch and brake fluid would be. Well, after reading 15 pages of just the brake bleeding instructions, I have decided it is too involved for one of my limited skills.

How bad would a dealer screw me over? Monetarily that is.

Dealers don't "screw you over" , they offer trained, licensed, insured mechanics who know exactly what they are doing, for this they charge the going rate and they know how to do it without wasting time, their work is also warrantied. When you leave the dealer after a brake service you know it's done right, and you don't have to spend weeks on a forum trying to figure out why the brakes still feel spongy or why a caliper won't release. If you want your linked brakes to work perfectly every time you need them then don't trust some local guy looking for food or beer, and don't trust your self if you don't feel confident that you know exactly what you're doing. Trust a trained mechanic who's done it many times and is properly insured to service your brake system.

That's one way to do it.

Not where I live. I have had the local Honda dealers screw me twice, NEVER AGAIN.

[vfr]

As with everything, there are good dealers who run honest competent shops and there are bad dealers who do shoddy work at inflated prices. Ask around and you can find out if you have a good shop in your area. It's unfortunate that the bad guys tarnish the reputation of the good guys just because they are both "dealers". With Auto dealers, Honda surveys customers that go to their shops. If a dealer has consistent poor ratings over a period of time, they will drop them. I don't think they do this with the Powersports line.

I plan to bleed the ABS brakes on my "new to me" 2003 VFR800A using this: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/70842-bleeding-linked-brakes-wabs-on-6th-generation-the-ultimate-guide/page__hl__%2Bultimate+%2Bguide

[Duc2V4]

I agree with VFR, there are good dealers and bad dealers and it's up to the patron to do his/her due diligence on their reputation. Apart from the forum(s), I would also suggest doing a yelp search, as odd as that sounds. You'll find a common "denominator" between what people on the forums say and what you'll read on yelp. That being said, I would also agree that somethings should be left to a professional. If you are rebuilding your brakes, i.e. caliper/master cylinder tear down and rebuild, then I would not recommend this as a first time attempt! and definitely seek a professional.

Although I do have some mechanical background, it's been a while since I've wrenched anything major for myself. I have bled my brakes and clutch on my Ducati several times though and have not experienced any issues to date. I also don't just jump on and go. I do little "local" test rides away form major traffic and verify everything is good. Take a little longer jaunt and check things again. I know that common sense is an oxymoron, but it really is common sense that somethings you can save money on by doing them yourself and other things you just don't leave to chance. Personally I like the satisfaction knowing that I can take care of little things that may cost more than I have in my wallet at the time. The same goes for things around the house. I've fixed many plumbing issues myself, but for the major ones, I call a plumber. Fortunately for me my brother in-law is a an excellent plumber and gives me major discounts!

Cheers.

[vandy91298]

I was lazy and just had the brake and clutch fluid done on my '02 last week at a local dealer. Cost was .8 hours + parts which came to a grand total of $86.

[Veefer800Canuck]

Just be sure not to introduce air into the system. Keep the brake reservoirs full while flushing the system.

Once you get air in the linked brakes, it's a beeyotch to get out again.

[RollinAgain]

I made my own brake bleeder using a large pickle jar, a mini wet-dry vac, and some compression fittings. It works a treat and is much easier than the miti-vac I once had. My guess is that the dealer will bend you over and charge you somewhere in the $150 to $200 range. Plenty of good folks around who I'm sure would be willing to help if you ask.

Rollin

[marriedman]

I was lazy and just had the brake and clutch fluid done on my '02 last week at a local dealer. Cost was .8 hours + parts which came to a grand total of $86.

That is exactly what I wanted to know! I can live with that cost, and it would totally be worth the piece of mind for me. That is about what I would be spending to buy the speed bleeders, pump/vacuum, and fluid I am betting.

[mk2davis]

Ask the dealer. It's not like this a rare bike, they should be able to give you an estimate first. My local dealer charges me $86 just to look at bikes. Its good to hear that others have it better than I do.

[YoshiHNS]

Since I was feeling pretty confident after doing my recent bouts of maintenance, I decided to read the Service Manual and see how bad changing the clutch and brake fluid would be. Well, after reading 15 pages of just the brake bleeding instructions, I have decided it is too involved for one of my limited skills.

How bad would a dealer screw me over? Monetarily that is.

Dealers don't "screw you over" , they offer trained, licensed, insured mechanics who know exactly what they are doing, for this they charge the going rate and they know how to do it without wasting time, their work is also warrantied. When you leave the dealer after a brake service you know it's done right, and you don't have to spend weeks on a forum trying to figure out why the brakes still feel spongy or why a caliper won't release. If you want your linked brakes to work perfectly every time you need them then don't trust some local guy looking for food or beer, and don't trust your self if you don't feel confident that you know exactly what you're doing. Trust a trained mechanic who's done it many times and is properly insured to service your brake system.

That's one way to do it.

Which completely explains how the trained dealers screwed up a carb job on a bike of mine. Still don't quite know how they got the float bowl to fit the wrong way...

[zRoYz]

You can debate this to the cows come home, my view is very simple, if your not mechanically minded or have reservations about performing any task on your motorbike use a trusted mechanic it could just save you allot more money then you will spend using the mechanic or your life. My pet hate is internet forums that sprout the self help mechanical jobs to people that really have no clue it is simply dangerous, I don't perform brain surgery because I have no clue, it is a simple fact of life we all have different skill sets. A good rule to go by is if you have no clue, don't really understand mechanical service manual & have never attempted a particular procedure before then DON'T unless your guided through it by someone who knows what there doing.

As far as link brakes go there one of the most annoying systems to completely bleed & renew fluid, mainly because of all the high points, for example the link piping that runs along frame then drops down under top triple clamp doesn't have a bleed point, If you have ever tried to fill any sealed system with any fluid you know a bleed point at the highest point makes the job simple, the VFR doesn't have that which makes the job a pain. Dealers use a vacuum bleeder & is the way to do a VFR so you don't start throwing things around the garage with frustration. I have performed link brake fluid changes over 20 times on VFR'S with a compressed air vacuum bleeder & it takes me about 15mins. I never had a vacuum bleeder before I purchased a VFR because didn't need one & really the cost of a small compressor & vacuum bleeder isn't great (about the cost of 2 fuild changes at mechanic) & you always have a use for air compressor like doing tyre pressures, cleaning parts, etc.