Guest ofcounsel Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 So, I jump started my bike with my car, and I had the car running. I know, I'm an idiot. It started running all funny, sputtering with the tach jumping up and down. I think I screwed something up.... Any clues as to what I may need to replace? Is it just the alternator... or is it more than that??? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 The bike's stator (which is like the alternator on a car) can't properly charge the battery from flat. You really need to get it onto a bike-suitable battery charger, which means one that won't charge the battery at much more than 1amp (most basic car chargers are 6amps plus). Do that, and get the battery load tested. If it checks out ok you will probably be fine, but also do a charging voltage test with a multimeter (a cheap one will do fine) once the battery checks out - taken directly off the battery terminals, you want to see: 12.8v at rest (off) 13.8v at idle 14.5v at steady 5k rpm Any variation to this (with a known good battery) may mean the reg/rec is toast. How did it get flattened in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marks152 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 The bike's stator (which is like the alternator on a car) can't properly charge the battery from flat. You really need to get it onto a bike-suitable battery charger, which means one that won't charge the battery at much more than 1amp (most basic car chargers are 6amps plus).Do that, and get the battery load tested. If it checks out ok you will probably be fine, but also do a charging voltage test with a multimeter (a cheap one will do fine) once the battery checks out - taken directly off the battery terminals, you want to see: 12.8v at rest (off) 13.8v at idle 14.5v at steady 5k rpm Any variation to this (with a known good battery) may mean the reg/rec is toast. How did it get flattened in the first place? sounds like as said above, flat battery, first port of call is to charge it and take it from there, the tach can do some funny things when you got a flat battery, im sure its nothin more serious than that, idle on my bike is less than 13v with lights on but as soon as it comes over 1400rpm its 14.3v imediately and doesnt alter after that, i have a R1 r/r fitted to my bike but i know when i had the OEM uprated honda one fitted it was less than 13v on idle and only 13.6v at 5000 rpm which is still in spec, 13.5 minimum for an OEM uprated part, 13.8v for standard OEM part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 The bike's stator (which is like the alternator on a car) can't properly charge the battery from flat. You really need to get it onto a bike-suitable battery charger, which means one that won't charge the battery at much more than 1amp (most basic car chargers are 6amps plus).Do that, and get the battery load tested. If it checks out ok you will probably be fine, but also do a charging voltage test with a multimeter (a cheap one will do fine) once the battery checks out - taken directly off the battery terminals, you want to see: 12.8v at rest (off) 13.8v at idle 14.5v at steady 5k rpm Any variation to this (with a known good battery) may mean the reg/rec is toast. How did it get flattened in the first place? Thanks! I let it sit for about 3 months without a battery tender and without riding it. And before that, I had only ridden it once a few months before that. I left the battery on the charger for several hours, but it only took enough of a charge to turn on the lights and prime the fuel pump... It wouldn't start the bike though. So I jump started it with my car. I then took it for a ride. Rode it for about 3 miles and it was sputtering and the rpm gauge was fluctuating all the way. Then it stalled on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzed_viffer Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Thanks! I let it sit for about 3 months without a battery tender and without riding it. And before that, I had only ridden it once a few months before that. Then the fuel had probably gone bad, and possibly gummed things up. I left the battery on the charger for several hours, but it only took enough of a charge to turn on the lights and prime the fuel pump... It wouldn't start the bike though. So I jump started it with my car. I then took it for a ride. Rode it for about 3 miles and it was sputtering and the rpm gauge was fluctuating all the way. Then it stalled on me. See what I said above. Unless you connected the leads the wrong way (which you didn't, or the bike wouldn't have started at all, and the cables would've sparked), jump-starting off the car wouldn't hurt. The maximum charging voltage is about the same for the car and the bike, although the car's alternator puts out a few more amps. A prolonged period of high current flow could cook the R/R, but it's unlikely this has happened. Put some fresh fuel in, check the battery condition and replace it if it won't hold a charge, and try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer hondalover Posted August 7, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted August 7, 2009 Unless you connected the leads the wrong way (which you didn't, or the bike wouldn't have started at all, and the cables would've sparked), jump-starting off the car wouldn't hurt. The maximum charging voltage is about the same for the car and the bike, although the car's alternator puts out a few more amps. I think a cars alt. puts out over twice, sometimes three times what the 6th gen. charging system does. Many reg/rec have died in this manner, but you may have been lucky. I would lean towards checking the reg/rec once you get a fully charged battery. A fully charged battery should be the FIRST step in diagnosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JamieDaugherty Posted August 7, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted August 7, 2009 It sounds to me like you've popped the main fuse. At least let's hope that's all you've done! Then the main fuse blows it often doesn't break the circuit completely. The partial connection is enough to allow the bike to run but creates lots of interrupted power. That would explain the rough running and tach jumping around. Check that and replace if it looks damaged. Usually there is a spare under the cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted August 7, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted August 7, 2009 Unless you connected the leads the wrong way (which you didn't, or the bike wouldn't have started at all, and the cables would've sparked), jump-starting off the car wouldn't hurt. The maximum charging voltage is about the same for the car and the bike, although the car's alternator puts out a few more amps. I think a cars alt. puts out over twice, sometimes three times what the 6th gen. charging system does. Many reg/rec have died in this manner, but you may have been lucky. I would lean towards checking the reg/rec once you get a fully charged battery. A fully charged battery should be the FIRST step in diagnosis. depends on the car no? I ride either a 1.0 or 1.4 litre 4 cilinder..... mebbee them V8 "Clunkers" require some more juice? :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmythecop Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 A coupla thoughts: 1. next time, if you have to jump it, leave the car off. Then you will get 12 and change volts. 2. todays gas can and does go bad quickly. 3 months with todays gas is about the absolute limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Knife Posted August 7, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted August 7, 2009 In the future, consider bump starting it instead. Mine fires right up while in 1st, on the slightest decline, after about a 5 or 10 foot roll. I also carry motorcycle-specific jumper cables just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I made the same mistake last year. Afterward I ended up replacing the sparkplugs and battery (though I think they were fine) while trying to diagnose an electrical problem, which was that periodically I would get the normal electrics on when trying to start the bike but the fuel pump would not cycle. I ended up replacing both the 'engine stop' and 'fuel cutoff' relays at the fronts of the side fairings and it's been fine ever since. A local VFRD buddy helped me with this, but it took awhile using a voltmeter to test the various electrical components and relays 'til we believed we'd found the problem. I'm not saying this is what your issue is, but this was my experience. +1 on Timmy's post. If anyone ever has to jump start a bike with a car, don't do it with the car running. I'm lucky I only fried a couple relays - if that's what made them go bad in the first place. I had left the bike's ignition ON while in my office for 30 minutes and the battery went dead. When I came back out, I turned the key OFF, switched it ON and got was instruments and (I think) lights. Not enough juice to cycle the fuel pump, and tho I tried bump-starting it, without the fuel pump cycling I don't think it would be worked anyway. I was in a hurry to get somewhere. When jumping the bike with the car off it didn't work quickly enough, so I ran the car. Big mistake, which I won't repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Hi all. I just purchased this bike from ofcouncel and thought I would post the resolution to this issue for any others who might need the info. Ofcouncel replaced the battery with a brand new one and the problem ceased to exist. It starts quickly and runs great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jstanwood Posted August 12, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted August 12, 2009 Hi all. I just purchased this bike from ofcouncel and thought I would post the resolution to this issue for any others who might need the info. Ofcouncel replaced the battery with a brand new one and the problem ceased to exist. It starts quickly and runs great. Cool! Congratulations on the new-to-you bike, and thanks for the update! My only new advice to ofcousel was going to be to sell the bike to someone that is fortunate enough to have the time to ride. Leaving them sitting for a long time and then trying to get them running again can cause a lot of problems. :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Hi all. I just purchased this bike from ofcouncel and thought I would post the resolution to this issue for any others who might need the info. Ofcouncel replaced the battery with a brand new one and the problem ceased to exist. It starts quickly and runs great. Congrats, especially if it has no further issues, but I would certainly do a charging system test to be sure everything is doing what it should or you may find yourself on the side of the road somewhere! :biggrin: Take the time! :mellow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Hi all. I just purchased this bike from ofcouncel and thought I would post the resolution to this issue for any others who might need the info. Ofcouncel replaced the battery with a brand new one and the problem ceased to exist. It starts quickly and runs great. Congrats on your new VFR! +1 on BR's post above. Even if it appears replacing the battery fixed the problem, I'd dig into it deeper and be sure so you don't get stranded somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Hi all. I just purchased this bike from ofcouncel and thought I would post the resolution to this issue for any others who might need the info. Ofcouncel replaced the battery with a brand new one and the problem ceased to exist. It starts quickly and runs great. Congrats, especially if it has no further issues, but I would certainly do a charging system test to be sure everything is doing what it should or you may find yourself on the side of the road somewhere! :rolleyes: Take the time! :biggrin: With regards to checking the charging system, I've installed a brand new Battery Tender and it's working fine per the instructions and based on my experience with the devices in the past. Wouldn't that, combined with the new battery, solve any potential "charging" issues or is there more to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 You can have the battery load-tested, which quickly reveals what sort of shape the battery is in (and yes it's worth getting even a brand new battery tested, some have dud cells, some aren't prepped properly when put into service). As for charging issues, you want to ensure the battery is getting the right amount of current, this is governed by the regulator/rectifier. Just for those who may not know this - the rectifier part of the reg/rec converts the AC output from the stator into DC, which the bike can use. The regulator bit ensures that the battery gets the right amount of current to keep it charged, and discharges any excess current (as heat, which is why they eventually fail). So you need to test with a multimeter at the battery terminals, to ensure that the right voltages are present, as per info posted earlier (note that you may get some variance, what I posted was taken from a bike with a known good charging system and battery). The battery tender will just make sure it's always ready to use (and keeping it at a steady charge is good for extending the life of the battery too). A voltmeter installed on the bike is always a worthwhile investment - it means you can instantly know if something has gone wrong, and take action before you are stranded or before components are damaged. A failing reg/rec can take a good battery out, and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 You can have the battery load-tested, which quickly reveals what sort of shape the battery is in (and yes it's worth getting even a brand new battery tested, some have dud cells, some aren't prepped properly when put into service).As for charging issues, you want to ensure the battery is getting the right amount of current, this is governed by the regulator/rectifier. Just for those who may not know this - the rectifier part of the reg/rec converts the AC output from the stator into DC, which the bike can use. The regulator bit ensures that the battery gets the right amount of current to keep it charged, and discharges any excess current (as heat, which is why they eventually fail). So you need to test with a multimeter at the battery terminals, to ensure that the right voltages are present, as per info posted earlier (note that you may get some variance, what I posted was taken from a bike with a known good charging system and battery). The battery tender will just make sure it's always ready to use (and keeping it at a steady charge is good for extending the life of the battery too). A voltmeter installed on the bike is always a worthwhile investment - it means you can instantly know if something has gone wrong, and take action before you are stranded or before components are damaged. A failing reg/rec can take a good battery out, and vice versa. Interesting. Will a plain, low price voltmeter from say ACE do the trick or do I need to step it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Any voltmeter will work...I even used a cheap Digital Volt Meter ($8) from Harbor Freight for awhile. The premium choice seems to be the Datel meter, but they are on the expensive end for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soichiro Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 You can buy volt meters for as low as $5USD. I saw a special at harbor freight for less the 5 bucks. Alternators are meant to maintain batteries not charge them from dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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