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Stator Tests


chris2992
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yea yours looks as bad as mine did, mine would rear its ugly head when it heated up! melted or exposed wingings just expand or become so resistant at temp that they no longer function when they get hot! However once cooled operate well enough to fool a test!

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Mr.RC45's stator was this discolored at 45,000 mile mark... replacing it with a new one didn't produced any more volts... it's possible that my old dark brown stator is still good...

gallery_3131_51_4013.jpg

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Just to throw a curve ball into the mix here. I have a 6th generation. Last June, I live my house, drove for about 15 minutes an stopped at a store. Get out, turned the key on, put my gloves, and tighten my helmet. Push the start button: 2 revolutions then click click click. At that point, I have no intention of buying a new battery, so I do everything I can to keep on running until the season ends (October). At that time, I was convinced my battery wasn't holding its charge. I would come home, start it a few times, and by the 3rd try, it would be dead. No testings, just "hands on trial and error".

So, remember, I don't want to replace the battery, so I do everything I can to keep the charging system working as little as possible to keep the battery fully charged at all time: No more high beam during the day (I like having h-beam on to be more visible), never let the key on for an extended period of time. keep my hand and foot off the brake to avoid having the brake light come on. Put the charger on the battery once in a while. I did that religiously.

Not only did the battery last the whole season, it is still good today. At Xmas, a friend of mine wanted to here my bike running. I hadn't charged, nor started the bike for 3 months. It is near freezing temperature in my carport. I Push the start button, the bike fired up after a few revolution, then died, I restarted it, and it ran beautifully.

After reading was Cooter posted, and my own exerience, I think the charging system on most motorcycles is marginal at best. Adding accessories (heated grips and vest, GPS etc), keeping the high beam on, running the bike at low revs might just be too much.

When this happen to me, I was also thinking my charging system was failing. I had similar problems with 92 Fireblade, which I was running on highbeam at all time. Now, I believe that the charging system is weak to begin with, and there is nothing that can change that. I need to work around it.

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There is no problem with running the high beam for long periods provided you don't over draw the amperage from the Stator. As soon as you quit charging the battery and and pulling voltage directly from the stator and RR is when you have a problem. The only way you will know if you are doing this is to install a Volt and Ampmeter. I have one, and when my stator was working fine; High's, Heated grips on High, cellphone and Ipod charging, I still had 9 amps charging the battery. Your bike has something wrong, but untill you get out the trusty multimeter you won't know whats going on.

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Had same problem; everything checked out but charging pattern was the same as yours. Finally pulled the side cover and found stator was cooked, very dark brown on some windings. Changed stator and all has been happy. I use a late model R1 rr as the honda ones are ridiculous expensive. Good luck...

I got an r/r from an 05 r1 off ebay about a year ago for $35 bucks wired it up and has been flawless so far. Haven't heard much from the Yamaha guys having trouble have you?

Edited by original007
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I have been having lots of problems tring to figure out what is wrong with my charging system. Thought it was the RR, wasn't. Thought it was the battery, wasn't. Thought it was the wiring, wasn't. Thought it was the stator, wasn't ..................... But wait, maybe it is.

Lets get all the facts on the table.

Battery Voltage = 12.3v

Charging voltage at Idle = 13.2v

Charging voltage at 5k rpm = 12.1v and lower as time goes on.

Mr.RC45 shows the same voltages at the same rpms... I've gone through extensive trouble shoot procedures and even changed the R/R twice and stator once... no joy... I'm not so hot when it comes to electrics so I'm watching the thread... right now I can't go 3 days without a external charge... it will just quit running...

I went riding today and now I have the same voltage readings.

I have 13.2 at idle, then voltage drop as RPM increases. It does seem to go back up to 12.7 when I reach 7000 RPM, but it is not steady.

I need to fix this as I find it dangerous paying too much attention to the voltage meter and not the ride.

I have replaced all three components last summer when I started having the clock reset to 12:00. :unsure:

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This is all very interesting. I went through a RR failure last summer on my 98 vfr. It had the newer version already, but failed anyway.

There were a number of things I learned then;

1. Just because a battery tests bad doesn't mean it is.

2. Overheated appearing stator wires may well be the result of too high current coming from a partially shorted stator winding.

3. Good voltage doesn't mean good charge.

1 relates to the Yuasa battery that tested very poorly after charging and then testing the float voltage. I bought a Battery Minder that desulphates and the battery has not yet needed replacement. It started the bike today after sitting for 3 weeks in freezing temps. The float reading is very good at 12.6 volts.

2 is straight forward but often overlooked. A bad connection merely ups the resistance and in turn lowers the carrying capacity. If it's cooked at the connector, check for bad connections or bad crimps, if its more general it's probably too much currnet from a partially shorted stator.

3 is more of a phantom. As has been pointed out voltages vary. They vary a lot on 5th Gen VFRs. You might test in the shop at some acceptable level but that doesn't mean you get it all day. I suspect a similiar rule applies to newr VFRs. A voltmeter permanently mounted is best. Lastly, grounds, grounds, grounds. OK, all connections are suspect.

Now I'm left wondering if anybody uses the Electrosport Products.

These seem like good products but are never mentioned here. I use the Rick's RR, so far so good. Might try these if I have need in the future.

They are said to use a modified RR system that regulates all 3 phases of output and not just two as the OEMs do.

Why do I suggest that? I read it here - GSResources

Ther is actually a decent description of rewinding your own stator in the articles.

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I have heard bad things about electrosport products, AFAIK they are the same company as electrex.

Got a call from ricks this morning, my stator is done and on its way back. So far so good, I sent it to them on tuesday, and it is already on its way back in less than one week. Pretty quick turn around.

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I have been having lots of problems tring to figure out what is wrong with my charging system. Thought it was the RR, wasn't. Thought it was the battery, wasn't. Thought it was the wiring, wasn't. Thought it was the stator, wasn't ..................... But wait, maybe it is.

Lets get all the facts on the table.

Battery Voltage = 12.3v

Charging voltage at Idle = 13.2v

Charging voltage at 5k rpm = 12.1v and lower as time goes on.

Mr.RC45 shows the same voltages at the same rpms... I've gone through extensive trouble shoot procedures and even changed the R/R twice and stator once... no joy... I'm not so hot when it comes to electrics so I'm watching the thread... right now I can't go 3 days without a external charge... it will just quit running...

I went riding today and now I have the same voltage readings.

I have 13.2 at idle, then voltage drop as RPM increases. It does seem to go back up to 12.7 when I reach 7000 RPM, but it is not steady.

I need to fix this as I find it dangerous paying too much attention to the voltage meter and not the ride.

I have replaced all three components last summer when I started having the clock reset to 12:00. :wheel:

you have weak readings try cleaning all your contacts from stator and from rec red wire to battery and black ground wire,

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Guest terrinVFR750Interceptor

Hi -

I saw this post and I would like to know what you think about my situation......

I purchased a interceptor VFR750 and have had nothing but problems.

First I thought it was the starter... Not...

Then I got a new battery... Seemed fine.

A couple of weeks later had to purchase another battery.

But come to find out that it drains the battery and then just stops completely!

Even when I am in third gear.. it will just stop working.

So I check my battery... dead as can be

These guys at a bike shop tell me it is the regulator and/or the stater!

The regulator is BRAND NEW!!!!

Why are they telling me I have to pay over $375 for new parts not including labor!

I may be a woman but I am not like most.... I do have brains and I do know mechanical stuff.

Still learning at this point about my bike!

Please help me .....

When I tested the wiring, the voltage is low that comes out from the stator.

Please reply..

Thank you Terrin

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Hi -

I saw this post and I would like to know what you think about my situation......

I purchased a interceptor VFR750 and have had nothing but problems.

First I thought it was the starter... Not...

Then I got a new battery... Seemed fine.

A couple of weeks later had to purchase another battery.

But come to find out that it drains the battery and then just stops completely!

Even when I am in third gear.. it will just stop working.

So I check my battery... dead as can be

These guys at a bike shop tell me it is the regulator and/or the stater!

The regulator is BRAND NEW!!!!

Why are they telling me I have to pay over $375 for new parts not including labor!

I may be a woman but I am not like most.... I do have brains and I do know mechanical stuff.

Still learning at this point about my bike!

Please help me .....

When I tested the wiring, the voltage is low that comes out from the stator.

Please reply..

Thank you Terrin

Rather than reinvent the wheel, I'll here repost some good information from the UK VFR site about how your charging system works. Basically, your "stator" makes alternating current (AC), a/k/a electricity, it is sent to the "regulator/rectifier" (R/R) where the AC current is changed to direct current (DC) AND the voltage is "regulated" to something in the range of 14 volts. The R/R ties into your wiring harness and sends DC volts/amps into the battery, which may accept the charge if in good condition, or reject it, if the battery is failing or gone. If the R/R tries to stuff DC volts into a dying/dead battery, the power backs up and overheats the R/R, ruining it. If a new battery is forced to work with a dying R/R, the battery will overexert and die trying to run the bike, then you replace the R/R but if you don't replace the battery at the same time, the bad battery will kill the new R/R, and you start all over again. The stator can also go bad and/or have a bad connection to the R/R, but that is less likely. In any event, read the information below and let me know of questions. I'm sure others will come along with their input, as well.

What is the Voltage Regulator/Rectifier and what does it do?

The R/R is a little gizmo, a bit larger than a cigarette packet, that converts the AC output from the Alternator into a DC input for the battery - hence the Rectifier part of it's name. It also controls the DC input to the battery in a controlled voltage range - hence the regulator part of it's name.

History

The failure rate for this component on the '98 FiW and '99 FiX models is somewhere in the region of 70%. Generally, the failure of the R/R on the VFR gives an under-volt condition, i.e. it doesn't charge the battery. Mind you, there has been the odd, but much rarer, failure to the over-volt condition which boils the battery and can blow bulbs.

The failures are mainly down to the inability of the R/R to shed heat, which then fries the electronics in them. If you touch one after a ride, you'll find it quite hot to the touch anyway.

It is possible to fit a computer cooling fan to try and prevent the problem, but I think it merely delays the inevitable. An upgraded R/R is available for the '98 FiW and '99 FiX models with improved cooling capacity and has, so far, proved much more reliable than the original. The upgraded replacement is a direct replacement.

Luckily, Honda realised there was a problem and replaced the R/R on the '00 FiY and later models for one that's a whole lot more reliable. The later one comes with an additional voltage sensing wire, which means it's not a direct replacement for the earlier model, but it's not insurmountable to fit one if you want.

Symptoms

The usual symptoms of the R/R going AWOL in the under-volt condition are:-

1. The clock resets to 1:00 AM and the tripmeter resets to 0 miles when you start the engine.

2. The engine fails to start, this can happen even if was running a few minutes previously. Often when you've stopped for fuel.

3. The rev counter and speedo needle start to do "strange" things.

4. The bike may start to stutter and cut out.

The symptoms of the R/R failing to the over-volt condition can include:-

1. Blowing bulbs.

2. Boiled battery.

Things to check

Starting with the simple things:-

1. Check the battery connections are clean and tight. It's not been unknown for the connections to come loose.

2. Check the electrical connections to the R/R are clean. Sometimes they get corrosion in them, which ups the resistance and causes it to overheat. The overheating, in extreme cases, can melt the plastic.

If those haven't sorted things out, you really need to buy a multimeter. These cost less than £10 and will prove a bonus from here on in. If you're not confident in using one - read the instructions and practise getting DC voltage readings from it. Start practising with a little dry cell (1.5 volts) battery if needs be - we all have to start somewhere.

Warning:- Never, ever connect the multimeter to both battery terminals unless it's selected to the DC volts range. The resistance across the meter when selected to read volts is very, very high so it can measure the difference across the terminals without damage. The meter resistance when selected to amps is very, very low and would effectively short out the battery, possibly melting the leads and blowing the meter up.

Now we're moving into the nitty-gritty.

How old is the battery?

Anything over 3 or 4 years old and it may be past it's best. As they deteriorate, batteries can lose their effective capacity, i.e. they behave as a smaller battery, so, it may be worth doing a selection of load tests on it.

Battery Load Tests

As with many electrical problems, make sure the battery is fully charged. If the charging system is playing up, you've only got a finite amount of power available from it.

a. Off-load test - connect a voltmeter (selected to volts DC) to the battery and off load a fully charged battery should sit at about 12.7 or more volts. Even a failing battery can pass this test at times.

b. Low-load test - a low load test is done with the engine stationary and just turning the bikes lights on and taking a voltage reading at the battery. The battery should have at least 11.5 volts with the lights on.

c. High-load test - this is done when cranking the engine over on the starter motor. You should have more than 10.5 volts while the starting motor is cranking the engine.

If the voltages are appreciably lower than those values, the battery is probably on it's way out.

Replacement Batteries.

If you need to replace the battery, then get a recognised and quality make. For example, the Yuasa YTX12-BS is available from Halfords at around £50. Before you fit it to the bike, ensure it's been fully charged.

What model of R/R is fitted to your bike?

If you lift the seat and have a look just outboard of the LH subframe rail, just behind the cutout in the rear fairing you'll see a grey box a bit larger than a cigarette pack. If it's made by Shendingen (who make them for Honda) you'll see a number on the top of it starting with SH. If it's SH579A-11, then you've one of the original and gloriously unreliable R/Rs fitted. If so, then there's a good chance it's put up the white flag.

If the number on it is SH689DA, then you've got the upgraded item. As mentioned earlier, it is much more reliable than the original, but there is still the possibility of a random failure. Anything else is a non-standard or pattern-part R/R.

For what it's worth the '00 FiY and '01 Fi1 models had R/Rs with SH579C-12 on them which are much more reliable.

No matter which model is fitted, it'd be worth doing a charging system output voltage check.

Output Voltage Test

As alluded to already, the R/R fails when hot, but it can seem to recover when it's cooled down again. The ideal time to do this test immediately after a ride round, if possible without stopping the engine and remove the seat using the spare key.

1. With the voltmeter (set to the volts DC range) connected to the battery, at 4000 - 5000 rpm with the lights off you should have anywhere between 13.5 and 15.5 volts.

2. Turning the lights on could cause the voltage to drop by up to 0.5 volts.

Anything seriously outside those ranges could indicate the R/R is giving up the ghost.

Although Haynes specify the charging voltage should be 14.2 volts for the FiW/FiX models. It's nice if you can get it, but don't worry if you can't. For example, the upgraded SH689DA model regulates at 13.8 volts - chase the 14.2 volts and you'll be throwing a lot of serviceable R/Rs away.

Another oddment, is some people say the lights should get brighter when you rev the engine. That isn't necessarily the case. The SH689DA model can provide more voltage at idle (or slightly above it depending on what idle speed you've got set) than at higher revs, for example, the one on my VFR provides 14.2 volts at idle, but 13.7 volts at 5000 rpm.

Please be aware that multimeters can have slight errors between them. What one is reading could be very slightly different on another.

If the Voltage Regulator/Rectifier is unserviceable

Many thanks to Journeyman for this little bit of useful information.

Because the alternator is mounted inside the engine the heat from the engine could affect the insulation on the alternator stator windings. The insulation may even break down between the windings. This typically happens under load and when the engine is hot. You will still get a good output voltage from the R/R, but as the VFR uses a delta wound stator, the alternator will give a much lower AC voltage and much higher AC current.

I will warn you though, having received further information from Brain's, the following procedure may not conclusively prove the alternator stator serviceable or unserviceable. As Brain's reminds me, a multimeter doing resistance checks only uses a few volts, whereas the alternator at high speed may well be inducing in excess of 200 volts at high engine speeds - a much bigger test of the insulation of the windings. Therefore there is the real possibility that a multimeter will say everything is OK, but in use it may well not be.

To check the insulation of the alternator stator coils you'll need to do the following:-

1. Disconnect the R/R connection to the alternator - the one with the 3 yellow wires.

2. Select the resistance (Ohms or Ω) range on your multimeter and touch the two probe ends together. The readout on the multimeter will give you the effective zero reading - so if there is a value shown and your multimeter cannot be zeroed - as many cheaper ones can't be, you'll have to deduct this number from any further measurement.

3. On the three yellow wires coming from the alternator (not the ones from the R/R by accident) measure the resistance between each of the wires in turn, i.e. have one probe on the connection to one yellow wire, then touch the other probe to the connections for the other two yellow wires. So if one probe is one wire 1, place the other probe on wire 2 then 3. Then move the probe from wire 1 and put it on wire 2, then place the other probe on wire 3. That way all combinations are covered.

4. The resistance readings in step 3 should be anywhere between 0.1 Ohm and 1 Ohm - remember to deduct the resistance reading you got in step 2 from the values you saw in step 3.

5. Now test the resistance between each of the yellow wires and earth. There should be no continuity, i.e. infinitely high resistance, between any of the yellow wires and earth.

If the values in step 4 or step 5 are outside the tolerances, then there's a pretty good chance the alternator stator coils are knackered.

Replacement Voltage Regulator/Rectifiers

Use the upgraded OEM one. Electrex make one, but it's reliablity record isn't anything to shout about.

To get an upgraded OEM one at a good price, try David Silver Spares who do them for £55 (plus VAT and P&P), which compares very favourably with about £200 from a Honda dealer for exactly the same item, just look in "OE Regulator Rectifiers" on their site.

If you get the one from "Genuine Spares" area of the DSS site (£79 plus VAT and P&P), the extra money merely goes into buying a nice Honda box to throw in the bin when you've got the R/R out of it.

The cheaper one is identical, just supplied in a poly-bag. Also included is a set of longer bolts (the upgraded R/R is thicker than the original as can be seen in this link) and an additional aluminium heatsink.

Reuse the original domed nuts as these stop the bolt ends rubbing away at the nearby wiring loom. It can also pay dividends to put some heat transfer paste (available from outlets such as Maplins) between the R/R and the heatsink and between the heatsink and the rear subframe. That'll help transfer extra heat from the R/R into the subframe.

I'd tend to advise, if the battery is over 3 years old or of unknown history, replacing that at the same time as the R/R. A failing battery can over-work the R/R hastening it's failure.

The charging system voltage is OK, the battery load test voltages are good, the alternator resistance values are fine, but the battery still flattens quite quickly.

Now we're looking at the battery leakage rate. This is the current (Amps) the bike draws even though everything is turned off.

Ideally the leakage should be less than 1.2mA, but with an alarm fitted and armed it might marginally higher than that. It might be worth consulting the alarm instructions and seeing what current it draws.

You'll need to set your multimeter to the highest DC Amps range. this is to stop the meter overloading when it's connected. On some models of multimeter you'll need to change which connection the red lead goes to.

When set to read amps, under no circumstances connect the multimeter between the battery terminals, otherwise you could short out the battery, melt the leads and wreck the meter.

1. Disconnect the battery negative (earth) lead.

2. Set to multimeter to the highest DC Amps range.

3. Connect the multimeter between the battery negative terminal and the disconnected negaive (earth) lead.

4. Going down one DC Amps range at a time, reduce the range until the reading is sensible. Always start high to protect the meter from overloading.

5. The ideal leak rate should be below 1.2mA, but as mentioned above it may be very slightly higher because of any alarms/immobilisers, but not substantially so.

If the leakage is substantially higher than 1.2mA, try pulling and refitting fuses one at a time and seeing which fuse make the biggest difference to the leakage value when removed. This'll give you a clue as to which circuits are drawing too much current.

Real Time Charging System Monitoring

If you're concerned about the state of your charging system and want to monitor it without the faff of getting a multimeter out every time, there's nothing to stop you fitting a small voltmeter. I have a Lascar EMV1200 fitted to the Big Red Bus - my VFR.

Hope this little lot is of some use.

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http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.p...ectrical+system

See this thread, follow the instructions, create new topic and post results.

A bad stator could fry a battery and/or RR.

A bad RR Could fry a stator and/or Battery.

A bad battery could fry a stator and/or RR.

Before you start changing things, it is better to figure out exactly what the problem is. As you can see from this thread, it isn't always as easy as it seams.

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Guest terrinVFR750Interceptor

i just started pulling out all the wires and checking the connections/connectors etc.

I found (it looks like a relay of some kind) yellow wire and a small harness with two wires.

The yellow wire has been sliced into a black wire. With the wires totally exposed but just wrapped with old tape.

I plan on going through the entire wire system and checking it all before I do anything else.

I figure that is the best place to start. At least I think it is.

Thank you for your reply.

Terrin

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i just started pulling out all the wires and checking the connections/connectors etc.

I found (it looks like a relay of some kind) yellow wire and a small harness with two wires.

The yellow wire has been sliced into a black wire. With the wires totally exposed but just wrapped with old tape.

I plan on going through the entire wire system and checking it all before I do anything else.

I figure that is the best place to start. At least I think it is.

Thank you for your reply.

Terrin

in this case, soldering the connections will pay off in the long run, crimping connections just doesn't cut it.

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Got my stator back today, and all I can say is wow. The rewind looks perfect. I shoot some pictures tonight and post them up. Will probably be Sunday before I can get it installed and tested.

But a big Thumbs up for Ricks Motorsport Electric, turn around on a rewind was only 8 business days from when I shipped it to them until I had it back in my hands.

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Okay, I am an absolute idiot when it comes to Bike Engines. Here is the situation. Right before the summer ended, I was having problems with my bike getting really hot and dying while I was stopped at red lights. I would have to push it to the side and let it sit for a long while and then try to drop the clutch to start it. Well, come to find out, my battery was shot so I replaced it. No problems for the rest of the season. Just last month, I fired it up and let it run for a while. Turned it off and installed my graphics on it. When I finished, I noticed I had left the key in the on position and the bike would not start. Luckily, I live on a hill and just did the whole drop the clutch thing again to start it. I garaged it again and went out to fire it up a few days ago, but it would not turn over. It clicked a few times, but would not turn over. Any suggestions??? I do not have a battery tender and my garage is not heated. Do I just need a new battery??

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Charge your battery. It is dead. Something is likely wrong elsewhere though, a battery won't cause the bike to over heat.

I see you are from Belleville, there are a few other members close, we will have to get together for a ride at some time.

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Charge your battery. It is dead. Something is likely wrong elsewhere though, a battery won't cause the bike to over heat.

I see you are from Belleville, there are a few other members close, we will have to get together for a ride at some time.

Sounds good....Once I get this problem taken care of. How hard is it to replace the R/R if it ends up being bad?

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Easy, If you wind up needing some help, PM me and maybe we can get together so's I could lend you a hand.

Sounds good, Thanks. I am going to check out the R/R this weekend. Anything to look for as far as it being bad??

Edited by Shak
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Sounds good, Thanks. I am going to check out the R/R this weekend. Anything to look for as far as it being bad??
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.p...ectrical+system

See this thread, follow the instructions, create new topic and post results.

A bad stator could fry a battery and/or RR.

A bad RR Could fry a stator and/or Battery.

A bad battery could fry a stator and/or RR.

Before you start changing things, it is better to figure out exactly what the problem is. As you can see from this thread, it isn't always as easy as it seams.

Follow that guide line.

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gallery_4338_1246_240360.jpg

Stator Re-wound by Ricks Motorsport Electric. A+++++ Quality

gallery_4338_1246_131933.jpg

Stator Re-wound by Ricks Motorsport Electric. A+++++ Quality

There is the rewind job. Looks great!! Stay tuned for a result post.

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SO - how much of the "Brown" in the original post - was oil?

gallery_4338_1246_71511.jpg

gallery_4338_1246_240360.jpg

Stator Re-wound by Ricks Motorsport Electric. A+++++ Quality

gallery_4338_1246_131933.jpg

Stator Re-wound by Ricks Motorsport Electric. A+++++ Quality

There is the rewind job. Looks great!! Stay tuned for a result post.

Looks like a damn fine job! :thumbsup:

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