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Stator Tests


chris2992
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Guest terrinVFR750Interceptor

I am having the same exact trouble with my VFR750F ! What the hell is going on with these bikes? I have no idea what else to do but take it all apart and totally rewire the entire bike... Electic is not my cup of tea. Oh well... Good Luck to ya..

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I said I would report back after I installed the new parts. Just to remind everyone, I was not having problems with the bike staying charged, just lower than spec charging voltage that would drop even lower, into the low 13's, as the rpms rose and was only showing 38 volts output max from the alternator. I also had the original RR. I had no signs of over heated wiring or connectors. I decided that I would go ahead and replace the stator and regulator proactively. My stator looked very similar to Chris' very toastie on the same side as his pictures show but it still tested OK except for low voltage output. After replacing the stator and RR, I am now getting charging voltages in the high 13' to low 14's with little to no drop on rising RPM and output from the stator of 50 volts and up, rising with rpm. I did do a little maintenance on connections but nothing that I would consider an A HA. I now firmly believe that much of the problem with these bikes starts with a failing stator. As the stator begins to fail under heat and load, it appears that the voltage drops and the current rises which then starts playing havoc with the rest of the charging system. I have posted references to this in my previous posts on this topic as well as a post on the general fraility of this type of alternator (stator) design. For those of you having multiple rr failures, I would consider replacing the stator. For the record, my bike is a 98 model with 24,000 miles and no history of electrical problems and hopefully, none in the near future.

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I said I would report back after I installed the new parts. Just to remind everyone, I was not having problems with the bike staying charged, just lower than spec charging voltage that would drop even lower, into the low 13's, as the rpms rose and was only showing 38 volts output max from the alternator. I also had the original RR. I had no signs of over heated wiring or connectors. I decided that I would go ahead and replace the stator and regulator proactively. My stator looked very similar to Chris' very toastie on the same side as his pictures show but it still tested OK except for low voltage output. After replacing the stator and RR, I am now getting charging voltages in the high 13' to low 14's with little to no drop on rising RPM and output from the stator of 50 volts and up, rising with rpm. I did do a little maintenance on connections but nothing that I would consider an A HA. I now firmly believe that much of the problem with these bikes starts with a failing stator. As the stator begins to fail under heat and load, it appears that the voltage drops and the current rises which then starts playing havoc with the rest of the charging system. I have posted references to this in my previous posts on this topic as well as a post on the general fraility of this type of alternator (stator) design. For those of you having multiple rr failures, I would consider replacing the stator. For the record, my bike is a 98 model with 24,000 miles and no history of electrical problems and hopefully, none in the near future.

I used to have a Honda Pacific Coast (V-Twin), which model was produced from 1989-1998, and those guys were always replacing their stators, which were probably similar, if not the same as, the ones we have in these bikes.

For the record, I replaced my failing original r/r with Honda upgraded one and got 13.98 at 5k (had been at mid-13s before, and clock was starting to clear, etc., indicating problem when I bought it), would pop over 14 off idle, drop on rising rpm, etc. Stator checked OK statically and output 59 vac. Thinking to get the volts at 5k over 14, I then replaced the stator and volts to the battery actually DROPPED to 13.94, warm at 5k. Bike has 14k on it. Still pops over 14 v off idle to 2k or so, then drops off to the 13.94 (warm) (13.89 cold).

Everything works, so taking a wait and see attitude here now.

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  • Member Contributer

Well, bad news. The stator wasn't all of my problems. After installing the new stator, all of my numbers got better by about 3/4volts, however as HS stated above, the droping voltage vs. increasing RPM's seems to be a bad RR. My theory on this is that when I began having problems last summer, probably started with the stator being bad, the bad stator then fried the RR which I replaced with a new oem. However since I still had a Bad stator it cooked the new RR as well. At this point, I can only speculate, but I sure hope that the new RR fixes the issues. I picked up a Yamaha R1 regulator from a 05, huge fins and looks to be a much more robust unit. I searched the squidly forums, and lots of folks with R1's from around 03 and earlier had RR problems, but the 04's and up the problem was corrected. My new RR should be here on Monday or Tuesday, so I'll report back then.

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When replaced the alternator on my truck, the guy who rebuilts them told me something similar: a bad battery is really hard on an alternator. Since our system are slightly different, it still make sense that one would damage the other.

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Well, bad news. The stator wasn't all of my problems. After installing the new stator, all of my numbers got better by about 3/4volts, however as HS stated above, the droping voltage vs. increasing RPM's seems to be a bad RR. My theory on this is that when I began having problems last summer, probably started with the stator being bad, the bad stator then fried the RR which I replaced with a new oem. However since I still had a Bad stator it cooked the new RR as well. At this point, I can only speculate, but I sure hope that the new RR fixes the issues. I picked up a Yamaha R1 regulator from a 05, huge fins and looks to be a much more robust unit. I searched the squidly forums, and lots of folks with R1's from around 03 and earlier had RR problems, but the 04's and up the problem was corrected. My new RR should be here on Monday or Tuesday, so I'll report back then.

Bummer...

Some Yamaha's use a generator instead of an alternator... ask Rick about using their RR...

The RC45 RR is robust and sports big fins...

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GOOD NEWS AT LAST

I got the R1 RR in today and got it hooked up. Instantly had 14.0V at idle and 14.5v at 5k RPM. I also preformed alot of the procedures in the Beef UP Dem Wires thread. I haven't had an oppertunity to completely finalize the wiring, but when I do, I'll post up some pictures. I have to give a big thanks to Origional007 for providing the pictures and information on the R1 RR.

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GOOD NEWS AT LAST

I got the R1 RR in today and got it hooked up. Instantly had 14.0V at idle and 14.5v at 5k RPM. I also preformed alot of the procedures in the Beef UP Dem Wires thread. I haven't had an oppertunity to completely finalize the wiring, but when I do, I'll post up some pictures. I have to give a big thanks to Origional007 for providing the pictures and information on the R1 RR.

Did you test OEM wires w/Yamaha R/R before upgrading wires to determine which (or if both) made the difference?

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  • 1 month later...
  • Member Contributer

Just finished my R1 rec reg mod... major job as usual on this bike... had to machine 1/2 inch off the fins

and then cut a custom aluminum hanger... now I show a constant 13.7 to 14.2 volts... thanks Chris for the

idea and all the help... I shall recommend this mod to other RC45 owners...

gallery_3131_51_26532.jpg

gallery_3131_51_42896.jpg

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  • 1 month later...
  • Member Contributer

Ok, stupid question time....how do I check the "AC voltage from stator. With a warm motor at 4000 rpm, I checked the stator side of the plug with the three yellow wires. Each one measured about 6V.

gallery_4338_1246_71511.jpg

I have been having lots of problems tring to figure out what is wrong with my charging system. Thought it was the RR, wasn't. Thought it was the battery, wasn't. Thought it was the wiring, wasn't. Thought it was the stator, wasn't ..................... But wait, maybe it is.

Lets get all the facts on the table.

Battery Voltage = 12.3v

Charging voltage at Idle = 13.2v

Charging voltage at 5k rpm = 12.1v and lower as time goes on.

Resistance between battery ground and frame ground = 0.1 ohm

Resistance between all 3 legs of the stator = 0.3 - 0.4 ohm

Continuity between all 3 legs and ground = none

AC voltage from stator (with rr Unpluged) at idle = 19.6v

AC voltage from stator (with rr unpluged) at 5k rpm = 65v

AC voltage from stator (with rr pluged in) at idle = 11.2v

AC voltage from stator (with rr pluged in) at 5k rpm = 4.2v

DC voltage at the battery side of the +/- rr Connector = Identical to battery voltage (Bike off = 12.3v / Bike running = 13.2v @ idle, 12.1v @ 5k rpm)

DC voltage at the RR side of the +/- RR connector (connector unpluged, measured directly across the red and green wire) at idle = 0.9v - 1.1v

DC voltage at the RR side of the +/- RR connector (connector unpluged, measured directly across the red and green wire) at 5k rpm = 0v - 0.1v

Static tests of the stator, it checks out fine. However, under a load it seems to show its failure. Also, something that I have noticed is that as the bike warms up, the problem gets worse. Is this normal, and is it the stator, or possiably the flywheel.

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Thanks Cooter. I have heard bad things on eletrex products, so I won't be using them. But You saw where I had spoken of Ricks Motorsport Electronics, I am going to call their CS office today and speek with them about my problem and see what they have to say. I'll probably just have them re-wind my stator and possiably run some diagnostic tests on my rr.

Yes, Electrex screwed me over. Advertised a 6th gen stator part number, but didn't realize there was a difference between 5th and 6th gen stators. Shipped me a 5th gen, which was smaller and didn't work of coarse. I sent them photos of the difference in sizes and they ignored me. Never got my money back.

I must admit though, they did ship me the wrong one pretty quick from overseas.

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Ok, stupid question time....how do I check the "AC voltage from stator. With a warm motor at 4000 rpm, I checked the stator side of the plug with the three yellow wires. Each one measured about 6V.

There are 3 "legs" of the stator, the 3 yellow wires. Lets lable them 1, 2 & 3. Take your multi meter and set it to AC voltage with a range of 0 to somewhere around 200v (same range you would use to check a 120v receptical in your home). Now take the voltage across 1 and 2, 1 and 3, lastly 2 and 3. All 3 values should be very close to one another and at idle read about 20v and at 5krpm read about 60v. Make sure to do this with the RR disconnected.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Mr. Visible
There are 3 "legs" of the stator, the 3 yellow wires. Lets lable them 1, 2 & 3. Take your multi meter and set it to AC voltage with a range of 0 to somewhere around 200v (same range you would use to check a 120v receptical in your home). Now take the voltage across 1 and 2, 1 and 3, lastly 2 and 3. All 3 values should be very close to one another and at idle read about 20v and at 5krpm read about 60v. Make sure to do this with the RR disconnected.

Thank you for mentioning that the stator voltage test should be performed with the RR disconnected. I was getting worried about my results with the plugs connected. With the plugs disconnected I get 20v at idle and 60v at 5k. Thanks for the clarification.

It does seem that the stator wires look a good bit smaller on the stator side of the connector than on the RR side (Y2K VFR). While doing voltage tests, the wires on the stator side seemed to get pretty hot (when connected). Is this normal? I did the testing with the bike barely warmed up.

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Guest talus
Thank you for mentioning that the stator voltage test should be performed with the RR disconnected. I was getting worried about my results with the plugs connected. With the plugs disconnected I get 20v at idle and 60v at 5k. Thanks for the clarification.

It does seem that the stator wires look a good bit smaller on the stator side of the connector than on the RR side (Y2K VFR). While doing voltage tests, the wires on the stator side seemed to get pretty hot (when connected). Is this normal? I did the testing with the bike barely warmed up.

On my '02, those Stator wires are 16 gauge and run into (or used to), a connector block that goes out with 14 gauge wires to the RR.

And my wires get hot also.

I still haven't figured out what fried the "3P" block yet but I'm working on it. :thumbsup:

gallery_11167_3051_53991.jpg

Totally melted white connector block.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest talus

Well - I'm pretty sure the the Stator killed the "3P" connector. I replaced my Regulator / Rectifier and the stator wires are so hot they melt the shrink tube on the connectors!

Finding a replacement kit has been a bit of a challenge though.

For those with 2002 bikes 31100-MCW-315 is the current up to date "AC Generator Kit" and includes the stator and flywheel. It replaces the kit quoted on the service bulletin.

BTW for you Canadians the price range on that part number from Victoria to Calgary was $355 to $420.

For you Americans - Service Honda www.servicehonda.com has the kit for $160.59 - and that is smok'in good deal!! I would have ordered from them if they had any. Come to think of it I should order a bunch just to sell them to Canadians!

Unfortunately, everyone seems to be out of stock and it sounds like it could be a few weeks to get them in.

Edited by talus
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Guest talus

Here are some snaps of my stator change.

I didn't have the correct Honda tool for pulling the flywheel (07933-3950000) so I rented a puller. Service Honda lists the tool as a "PULLER DYNAMO" and sells it for $16.46 USD. It is nothing more than a bolt that screws into the flywheel and then pushes against the end tapered shaft that the rotor sits on. I'm sure any machine shop could make one up for you if you knew the thread. My rental puller cost me $10 so it's probably worth the extra $6.50 to have the correct tool for the job - you can alway rent it out to your VFR buddies for a case of beer and you'll end up ahead!! :thumbsup:

gallery_11167_3100_90276.jpg

Flywheel with rented puller.jpg

Here is a close-up. If you do use this method you need a puller that can fit through the center of the flywheel and push against the end of the tapered shaft. The end on this puller was about 5/8" and fit through nicely without going inside the tapered shaft or damaging the threads on the flywheel (my flywheel will be replaced with the kit anyway but no sense doing a bunch of damage). Those holes in the flywheel are also quite small so you'll want very small arms on the puller.

gallery_11167_3100_42639.jpg

Flywheel with rented puller close-up.jpg

Here's a shot of the empty case. I was just starting to lean into the wrench on the puller and the flywheel literally "popped off". It took a fair bit of pressure so I'm not sure you would have an easy time trying to "pry" it off otherwise. Does anyone know what the brass bar inside the case that runs from 11 O'clock to 2 O'clock is for?

gallery_11167_3100_92696.jpg

Leftside crankcase empty.jpg

Now here is my stator. The three yellow stator wires come out of the top of the case at the 1 O'clock position so the dark brown section was definitely NOT soaking in oil. In fact - very little oil came out when I pulled off the alternator cover - not more than one cup max.

gallery_11167_3100_198363.jpg

Toasty stator.jpg

Here is the good looking side. The area where the stator was white colored looked not bad.

gallery_11167_3100_80309.jpg

Stator side not-so-toasty.jpg

Here is what it looked like on the dark brown side. Very burnt and toasty. It had a funky burnt smell as well. Makes me want to change the oil and filter. This is the first stator I have ever pulled apart but it sure looks bad to me. I'll take it down to the local shop and see what the mechanics have to say about it and let you know what they say.

gallery_11167_3100_28426.jpg

Stator side toasty.jpg

Anyway new parts should be here in the next day or so and I'll post some pics of the install. Maybe I should make up a "How-to"... would that be useful to anyone?

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  • 1 month later...
Guest gr3664

hi - yes yes yes

i think i need to replace the stator and am nervous taking all these parts apart - why does the flywheel have to be replaced btw????

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Guest talus
hi - yes yes yes

i think i need to replace the stator and am nervous taking all these parts apart - why does the flywheel have to be replaced btw????

Give me a day to get the pics together. I want to show the electrical reinforcement as well.

There is a great write-up on stator replacements (Maintenance - Stator Replacement). For your 2002 (and newer) you should also read the service bulletin (Six Gen - 2002 Alternator Recall) and of course review the Service manual (Downloads)

That should keep you busy while you wait for the parts. Don't worry about this job - it's no more difficult than changing the oil - just a couple of extra bolts.

Finding an appropriate puller and the two torque wrenches will be more difficult than the job. I need one "low" torque wrench for the case bolts and one "high" torque wrench for the flywheel bolt. Bring the torque specs when you go to buy/rent it will save you and extra trip :beer:. BTW the guys at the local dealer tell me they just "guestimate" the case bolt torque - I didn't have the guts.

I think that the flywheel gets replaced due to a stator/flywheel clearance issue. --- At least I seem to remember reading that somewhere around here.

Edited by talus
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Guest gr3664
hi - yes yes yes

i think i need to replace the stator and am nervous taking all these parts apart - why does the flywheel have to be replaced btw????

Give me a day to get the pics together. I want to show the electrical reinforcement as well.

There is a great write-up on stator replacements (Maintenance - Stator Replacement). For your 2002 (and newer) you should also read the service bulletin (Six Gen - 2002 Alternator Recall) and of course review the Service manual (Downloads)

That should keep you busy while you wait for the parts. Don't worry about this job - it's no more difficult than changing the oil - just a couple of extra bolts.

Finding an appropriate puller and the two torque wrenches will be more difficult than the job. I need one "low" torque wrench for the case bolts and one "high" torque wrench for the flywheel bolt. Bring the torque specs when you go to buy/rent it will save you and extra trip :huh:. BTW the guys at the local dealer tell me they just "guestimate" the case bolt torque - I didn't have the guts.

I think that the flywheel gets replaced due to a stator/flywheel clearance issue. --- At least I seem to remember reading that somewhere around here.

this discussion is great! i am not thrilled that i have to dig into my fairly new vfr to do this but you guys make it so much easier and almost enjoyable - as to estimating torque, i changed the oil on my volvo the other day because the filter can had a hole in it and was leaking oil; i busted my finger when the filter finally unseated and crunched my hand - i had thought i had run over something that punctured the filter, but no, the duffus at the oil change place had so overtorqued the filter that it bent and in one of the creases had even opened up a hole!! i am a little leary of shops since then... i will follow your instructions to a 't' thanks again

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  • 2 months later...
Guest Dirtnap450

Hey guys, I just got my Nused VFR and i am starting to get the bugs worked out. I have a 97 model and its in decent shape but the previous owner was a "first time owner" and i am sorting out all the missing peices and mismatched hardware. S

Of course my problem is a stator/ Reg/rec wiring problem, like everyone else it seems. I have tested the output voltage on the plug behind the faring on the right side (not the R/R). I unpluged it from the harness to do the test and at 3500 rpm i only see 0.06V. I see a lot of others posting at least 6V at idle and between 30 - 60v at revs over 4k. NEedless to say ALL 3 phases are dead and i get a reading of .03 to .06 on any of the 3 output yellow wires. Now i am still confused as to how to perform the test as i only inserted the pos lead on my multimeter into the output harness and i grounded the neg lead to either the neg battery terminal or directly to the frame. Also, the plug into my R/R was totally smoked and one wire was completely burnt trough. I have already ordered the Honda part to replace the plug and cooked wires but i want to be sure im replacing the right part. either the Stator or R/R... Honestly i am starting to think i will just buy both for some peice of mind... I already bought the brand new battery and it is being tended so it doesnt get damaged in any of my testing proceedures. I also want to add that i found the R/R was an aftermarket one so it has been replaced previously, how long ago i dont have a clue.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me get this thing worked out....

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Edited by Dirtnap450
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Guest Dirtnap450

Well i just cant spend money until i am darn sure that i have the right part..(knock on wood) So i put the old stator back in and added some oil. I started her up and tested across all three phases (1-2, 1-3 & 2-3) of the stator and still i get nothing but DEADNESS!!... i would initially (for a milisecond) get a reading of 25-30v (for about a blink of any eye and that could just be the behavior of my multimeter) but it would immediatly drop to .06v. It was a similar result on all three phases and i never saw even a hint of real voltage.

I dont know what to say but i connected everything and even plugged in the burnt old connector to the R/R. Believe it or not that dam thing started working! I am getting 12.9v at idle and around 14.4v at 4k. I have ridden her around the block a couple of times to see if heat will bring back the charging problem but it kept working. I let it cool off for a couple of hours and the bike started right up and the voltmeter showed 13.5 at 2500 rpm. SO i am still going to solder in the new connector for the R/R and the test her again. *fingers crossed* Maybe it was a connection problem with the connector under the right faring? jeez the not knowing is going to keep me up all night......

Edited by Dirtnap450
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  • 5 months later...

So I haven't seen any firsthand reviews of the stuff from Rick's, except from Chris...? That stator has served you well? What about their R/Rs? It's lookin like I'm about to get into this on my '86, so I want to be sure I get the right stuff.

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So I haven't seen any firsthand reviews of the stuff from Rick's, except from Chris...? That stator has served you well? What about their R/Rs? It's lookin like I'm about to get into this on my '86, so I want to be sure I get the right stuff.

I have had good luck with Rick's R/R's....I have sold 10 or so of their's through my site. They have good customer service, and I have had Rick himself call me to answer a question I had. The biggest issue is to be sure you don't have other issues causing problems. Any weak link can have effect on multiple items, sometimes tracking the true problem down is tough!

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