Jump to content

Grinding sound when cranking hot, bad battery?


Recommended Posts

Hello guys, I had this problem since last year, and this is the situation and what I did and didn't so far.
Last year battery was in better shape, hold charge, but it could drop to 9.6v during cranking, sometimes it won't go below 11v... It wasn't the best.

This problem ONLY happening on hot/hottish start, never EVER on cold start.

What I did so far is:


1. Checked the battery, isn't the best. I need to replace it and I suspect that is the problem but...
2. Check the ground, perfect.
3. Cleaned battery terminals, inspect cables.
4. Cleaned starter relay pins and starter switches.
5. R/R is fine, proper voltage.

 

What I didn't and should:
1. Change the oil (can that impact the starter clutch)?
2. Change the battery - most important to do just to eliminate that.
3. And ofc I didn't open the case to see the starter clutch and didn't inspect the starter motor cuz, I am not so sure that I can do that (mostly cuz I never done this before), even if Im usually working on my motorcycle, smaller things and services.

 

Here is the video. First start is ok, and it happens on 2nd and 3rd. My suspect is that because battery is bad, on every other start, it is weaker and weaker and motorcycle produce that sound - not enough power to crank properly?

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1glppXAsErw1zHdbywXvJoQcl7h4qoRew/view?usp=sharing

And what is grinding - starter clutch or starter motor?

 

Also, what is strange, sometimes I can start it like 10 times in a row without any problems... 
It has something with the temperature, cuz it never happens on cold engine... can the heat affect bad battery? Old oil in the case? Bad starter motor, starter clutch? Check the torque on these 3 bolts on the starter clutch?
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like it is time to get a new battery

If you put a load tester on that battery I bet it is history

Very cool to see a 3rd gen with the optional clock, does it have the optional center stand as well?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Time for a battery. 1st start was ok, but it took a charge off the battery that wasn't replaced by running. 2nd time there was a weaker battery and the 3rd was the worst as each time you took from the battery without replacing the charge but running for awhile. A good battery wouldn't be affected by that, and Yes, heat is bad for a battery.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Hingley said:

Sounds like it is time to get a new battery

If you put a load tester on that battery I bet it is history

Very cool to see a 3rd gen with the optional clock, does it have the optional center stand as well?

I have the centerstand yes, Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jefferson said:

Time for a battery. 1st start was ok, but it took a charge off the battery that wasn't replaced by running. 2nd time there was a weaker battery and the 3rd was the worst as each time you took from the battery without replacing the charge but running for awhile. A good battery wouldn't be affected by that, and Yes, heat is bad for a battery.

I tried to reproduce today and after 15 restarts, nothing happened. Tried to reproduce it and then connect to car battery to test, but every time it started fine. 

 

Someone suggested to clear starter motor and also check famous starter clutch. But first, the new battery.

 

Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Hi there.  Nothing I've seen or heard says "starter clutch" to me.  When that goes, the bike does not start at all, because the starter doesn't engage and spin the engine like it's supposed to.

 

When diagnosing VFR charging issues, ALWAYS start with a known good battery.  If it's a few years old and you don't have a battery load tester, just replace it.  Batteries are also relatively cheap!  

 

FWIW, the video showed me that your battery is weak, but not extremely so.  It should start the bike several times more than that--if it's good.  But it still takes a charge and starts the bike at least three times, which should be fine unless you stall the engine a lot...

 

(Btw, all non-US/Canadian VFRs of that era came with clocks and center stands--they were removed from the US-spec models for cost reasons, apparently.)

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Try starting it off of another battery or jumped to your car and see if the symptoms change. (amps are pulled, not pushed)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, bmart said:

Try starting it off of another battery or jumped to your car and see if the symptoms change. (amps are pulled, not pushed)

 

I tried that before and when I hook up on the car battery, 10 starts, all fine. 

 

Yesterday I wanted to test that again and I warmed up the bike and I tried to get that grinding sound, then after that I would hook up on the car battery to see. I done 10 starts on my bike's battery and all 10 times were with no problems at all... so I quit that idea to hook up on the car battery to test it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

If it always works off of a known good battery...that's a strong hint. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

In your video, battery is getting a little weaker with each start attempt since you're not running/riding the bike long enough to fully charge the battery.  I didn't hear anything unusual in your 3 start attempts, suspect the starter clutch is just fine..... you need to get the battery load tested, but sounds like you need a new one perhaps.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
15 hours ago, Plavna said:

I tried that before and when I hook up on the car battery, 10 starts, all fine. 

^ Yep, you found the answer yourself. It's not grinding you are hearing it's the starter struggling to turn the engine, making lots of noise because it is reaching its limit with the available voltage and amperage...

 

On 4/15/2022 at 9:38 AM, Hingley said:

Very cool to see a 3rd gen with the optional clock

First thing I said to myself the second I started the video was, "Wow, he has the clock on his 3rd gen!" :laugh:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the answers guys. I will reply here when I get the new battery. Hope the problem will go away, if not I will check the starter motor also.

 

Here are some pictures :)

Gq1Tsmd.jpg

OSGPWY7.jpg

vUd0rZX.jpg

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

So far so good. Lot of stop and go rides, with small distances, turn off the bike, then turn on again... Only happened once and that was really short and started right up. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

What is your battery voltage with the bike idling and revving? You might have a charging issue, especially if you still have the stock R/R.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

And it matters that you measure when the battery is 100% charged. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, jefferson said:

What is your battery voltage with the bike idling and revving? You might have a charging issue, especially if you still have the stock R/R.

I done that testing before and R/R is good. I forget the exact numbers but its 14.x something. When I turn of and measure the battery its 13.x something and after some time it drops to 12.7V. 

Its not the stock R/R someone changed it. Its from some Honda model but its not that stock sealed one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also someone installed voltmeter where the fuel tap should be on the left side so I can see the voltage when ridding. 

 

Its strange cuz its not that every time it will slow down while cranking when its hot. Sometimes it will start fine, sometimes it will slow down, sometimes almost to a stop then countinue and fire up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like you need to get that starter apart and cleaned.  Pay very close attention to the order of things and keep mindful of thrust washers that like to stick together, until they don't, and disappear.

 

I do this on every new-to-me-bike and they are always FULL of brush dust.  I rarely have to replace the brushes and usually just sand them a bit for a fresh surface.  Once thoroughly cleaned with electronics cleaner and the armature cleaned up, they spin up so nice and fast, even when hot.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok I will. Also I saw the manual today and I think I miss some washer on the starter terminal. I have 2 locking nuts, 2 insulated washers instead of 3 (need to check again) and one metal washer. Also I don't see the o ring on that terminal. 

 

I don't know how much is that important at all, 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

US import?  Strange for someone to remove the remote reserve switch.  Do you have a low fuel light in the tachometer?

 

P7220010.thumb.JPG.6247e589af9d77811816fdea30d1c832.JPG

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Given everything you've done and checked. I would fit a new Starter Relay, given it's age and the problems they can develop, it needs to be taken out of the equation, easy to just fit a new one then reassess the issue.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy.