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Single Nut Conversion Vfr800 Hrc Rc45 Style - One More:-)

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I see you're using narrow-head M8 bolts for the brake disk.  I found that titanium BMW S1000R disk bolts were almost perfect when I wanted to be able to use an RC46 rear wheel on my RC36 rear axle.  However, I found that some aftermarket bolts had thicker heads than others!  Maybe this is possible because this bolt is not in a DIN form?

 

Ciao,

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HI JZH, it's a 6 mm bolt, because the disc is for the HRC RC45 axle, but eventually, when I receive the right disc, then it will be with 8 mm bolts, and with the same head.

 

I do not think the heads on bolt follow a specific norm, other vice than the socket size, or hex head size. If that's what you mean, when writing it is not in a DIN norm?

 

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I used VFR400 Titanium sprocket carrier bolts for my disc bolts when I changed the axle. They are flat headed, so fit inside the recess on the wheel side of the axle plate.

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There are international standards, such as DIN and JIS, for bolts, nuts, washers, etc., and most aftermarket fasteners are made to meet these standards so that an "M8 cap screw" is interchangeable with any other "M8 cap screw".  But many motorcycle-specific fasteners are not manufactured to any particular standard.  I was just suggesting one reason why the "titanium BMW S1000R rear brake disc bolts" I had purchased from different suppliers had 1mm different head heights.  Only the ones sourced from BMW are guaranteed to be correct for a BMW; the ones supplied by the low-volume titanium fastener companies I was using are a bit hit-and-miss.

 

20160422_194120y.jpg

 

This is an RC36 axle/disc set-up to run an un-modified RC46 rear wheel (using the BMW bolts mentioned above).  Head height was critical because the wheel flange fit flush to the axle surface.

 

Ciao,

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I was hoping VFRRR has at least one more of these sets as I could really do with one for my forthcoming V4 project. No response to PM though. :unsure:

 

If he could let me know (and hopefully sell me one) I'd be grateful.

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On 06/06/2016 at 12:51 PM, Mohawk said:

PS re the CRF250 M/C they only have a 10mm piston, so will work with a single piston caliper, but probably NOT well with that opposed piston caliper.

 

PPS, Chris I'm surprised at you. Single piston sliding caliper or twin opposing pistons, makes no difference. Only the piston diameter is relevant.

 

I have a small special caliper previously used on my RC45 which I hope to use on my 800 project. It's another small caliper with twin opposing pistons and I'm thinking of trying the CRF Master Cylinder also. I'm sure it would work well (enough).

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Ken,

I'm using a ducati 1098S forged alloy rear wheel in a 5th gen arm - a spacer and a shim, fits right in.

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Maybe a silly question, but why did HRC use a LH thread for their large single wheel nut?

 

Also, do Ducati use LH or RH wheel nut thread and is it the same dia. and pitch as VFRRR and HRC?

 

Does a Ducati nut fit the M38 x 1.5 thread on the driven side of the axle?

 

Does the NC30/35 wheel nut fit the RC45. So is the thread on the end of the internal axle bolt the same for both bikes?

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I can answer at least two of those questions, as I've been searching for titanium or stainless steel nuts for my RC30 axle recently.  The NC30/35 RHS nut fits my RC30 axle.  This is available in titanium from Titan Classics.  I actually bought it secondhand from someone on 400GreyBike, who had bought it for his NC35.  I'd guess the RC45 is the same as the RC30, but I'm not sure.

 

The M38 x 1.5 LHS nut is shared only with the Triumph Speed Triple and the like; Ducatis use a different thread pitch--1.25, I think.  This is actually my current headache, because I cannot find anything remotely affordable to replace this nut and retain the lock-wire or locking features of my corroded OEM nut.

 

Ciao,

 

 

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49 minutes ago, JZH said:

I can answer at least two of those questions, as I've been searching for titanium or stainless steel nuts for my RC30 axle recently.  The NC30/35 RHS nut fits my RC30 axle.  This is available in titanium from Titan Classics.  I actually bought it secondhand from someone on 400GreyBike, who had bought it for his NC35.  I'd guess the RC45 is the same as the RC30, but I'm not sure.

 

The M38 x 1.5 LHS nut is shared only with the Triumph Speed Triple and the like; Ducatis use a different thread pitch--1.25, I think.  This is actually my current headache, because I cannot find anything remotely affordable to replace this nut and retain the lock-wire or locking features of my corroded OEM nut.

 

Ciao,

 

 

 

I also think the RC45 uses the same thread on its axle bolt as the NC30 and 35. But I've not confirmed that 100% and I don't want to waste the money on a nice Ti nut if it's wrong.

 

Are you looking for the LH/driven side axle nut? That's the M38 x 1.5. Titan Classic have those that can be staked like the original, but buy from their website as it seems a bit cheaper than their eBay store.

 

If you don't want to stake the nut into the slot in the axle (like I don't) do what Mohawk did and drill the lip of the nut and the axle so the Ducati (or some other) clip can be used.

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18 hours ago, RVFR said:

Photos?  or its not for real  Keef  :wink:

 

 

its real, and a lurid colour.

IMG_8537.JPG

IMG_8538.JPG

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Hey keef, I see you're using Ducati (style) nuts on both ends of the axle. Is that because the nuts fit the Honda axle (in which case, which axle) or are you using a Ducati axle?

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Looking further at axle nuts, it appears Ducati use M33, M38 or M48. So no matches there :sad:

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15 hours ago, BiKenG said:

 

I also think the RC45 uses the same thread on its axle bolt as the NC30 and 35. But I've not confirmed that 100% and I don't want to waste the money on a nice Ti nut if it's wrong.

 

Are you looking for the LH/driven side axle nut? That's the M38 x 1.5. Titan Classic have those that can be staked like the original, but buy from their website as it seems a bit cheaper than their eBay store.

 

If you don't want to stake the nut into the slot in the axle (like I don't) do what Mohawk did and drill the lip of the nut and the axle so the Ducati (or some other) clip can be used.

 

The wheel-side thread appears to be M18 x 1.5 (just measured it).  Titan Classics' website is always frustrating because, whilst they do try to show all compatibles, they often fail to simply show the dimensions of their parts!  (That said, I did recently find a trove of dimensional drawings for their fairing fasteners...but where did I find it?  I can't find it on their site now!)

 

Yes, I'm trying to avoid staking the titanium (I didn't even know what was possible!), and ideally I'd like a flanged nut so I can ditch the conical washer.  There is one available in Japan for silly money (of course), but no thanks.  I'd consider modifying the eBay one, but it's not flanged.

 

Apart from the Triumph, I don't think there is anything else using the Honda-spec threads, unfortunately.

 

Ciao,

Edited by JZH
Corrected thread diameter...

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I've just ordered the Triumph wheel nut which at M38 x 1.5 is the correct size for the Honda's driven side axle nut. Although the Honda style nut is available from Titan Classics, I just hate the idea of having to bend a part just to make it do its job, especially if you want to be able to re-use it multiple times. Shame on Honda for employing such a crummy idea. The Triumph one however is castellated and with some drilling of the axle I'll be able to use the Triumph clip on it too.

 

Neither are flanged, but I don't see that as being a problem. There is supposed to be a spring/conical washer underneath that nut and using a flange type nut wouldn't obviate the need for that spring loading. But Titan Classics have those conical washers in Ti, so all's good. :wink:

 

In fact TC also have the wheel nut R clip in Ti.

 

So the RC45 wheel nut is M18 x 1.5, but what about the NC30 and 35? I suspect they are the same, but I cannot seem to get any confirmation of that.

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11 hours ago, BiKenG said:

Hey keef, I see you're using Ducati (style) nuts on both ends of the axle. Is that because the nuts fit the Honda axle (in which case, which axle) or are you using a Ducati axle?

Ducati axle. 

It is a...

vfr arm, axle/hub/eccentric removed

duke 1098 axle, etc

1.5mm shim as the duke stuff s 3mm smaller

5mm spacer to centre it

in she goes. Although it might be a 2.5mm shim and a 3mm spacer, it was 5 years ago, now. 

Custom extreme creations sprocket on a Ducati driven quick change hub, duke rear rotor, duke rear caliper, ex creations caliper bracket. 

 

848 stuff won’t work, only 1098. 

 

I over complicated the second version of my front mount rad, but the rear wheel conversion was kept simple. 

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I googled my bike to find the pic

1.5mm and 3mm

 

64C61979-C3AA-489D-BD9D-8ACA4807B8D6.jpeg

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Curious here in the rear wheel offset,  I had a 1098 rear wheel where I was going to use, then found that the offset is different, maybe you fixed this with the Ducati  eccentric ? This is still on my bucket list to do if and when.  Thanks for the photos   ;) Oh,  btw  the color is spot on. 

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On 13/11/2017 at 7:01 PM, BiKenG said:

 

PPS, Chris I'm surprised at you. Single piston sliding caliper or twin opposing pistons, makes no difference. Only the piston diameter is relevant.

 

I have a small special caliper previously used on my RC45 which I hope to use on my 800 project. It's another small caliper with twin opposing pistons and I'm thinking of trying the CRF Master Cylinder also. I'm sure it would work well (enough).

It's the piston area, so the number of makes a difference or the area to be exact. The crf rear caliper piston is 22mm driven by a 10mm M/C for a 4.84/1 ratio.

The RVF rear is 1x25mm & 1x27mm giving a ratio of 13.5/1 ratio, so will need a lot more throw to develop any pressure.

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3 hours ago, RVFR said:

Curious here in the rear wheel offset,  I had a 1098 rear wheel where I was going to use, then found that the offset is different, maybe you fixed this with the Ducati  eccentric ? This is still on my bucket list to do if and when.  Thanks for the photos   ;) Oh,  btw  the color is spot on. 

I gave a 1098 wheel to extreme creations to figure out. Ben ha a spare 5th gen arm to test on. I thought he would need to make an adapter plate like carrozzeria used to.

He noticed that the Duke eccentric would fit, so we went that route. I've seen complete 1098 arms for $300 aus. You could take the eccentric and sell the arm on.

Same sort of thing guys who raced vfr400's out here used to do to change to a 17 inch rear wheel.

colour is ford citric acid from the xr6's. Kinda fluoro yellow, kinda snot green.

 

Oh, and slightly related to what Mohawk is saying - I know a guy (and internet streetfighter building friend) whoi used a crf MC for his rear because the integrated res looks cool. Doesn't really work on an OEM vfr rear caliper. 

 

 

 

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On 11/15/2017 at 5:50 AM, JZH said:

The M38 x 1.5 LHS nut is shared only with the Triumph Speed Triple and the like; Ducatis use a different thread pitch--1.25, I think.  This is actually my current headache, because I cannot find anything remotely affordable to replace this nut and retain the lock-wire or locking features of my corroded OEM nut.

 

 

 

Hi John

 

I have a Triumph eccentric in my 4th Gen swingarm, with an 848 Marchesini. I had the axle shortened and re-threaded as it was around 30mm too long for the Duc wheel.

 

The original Triumph two-piece nut/collar fits, and so does the aftermarket alloy Ducati one-piece nut/collar I bought for about $50 off ebay. They are the same thread.

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an 848 only gives you a girly 5.5 inches.

a 1098 gives you a manly 6 inches.

 

6 inches is manly, right?

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11 hours ago, Mohawk said:

It's the piston area, so the number of makes a difference or the area to be exact. The crf rear caliper piston is 22mm driven by a 10mm M/C for a 4.84/1 ratio.

The RVF rear is 1x25mm & 1x27mm giving a ratio of 13.5/1 ratio, so will need a lot more throw to develop any pressure.

 

Yes of course it's the total area of pistons MOVING IN THE SAME DIRECTION. But assuming the same piston size, a single piston in a sliding caliper is EXACTLY the same as 2 pistons moving in opposition (i.e. fixed caliper). For the latter, the area you'd use for any calculation would only be for ONE piston. The sliding effect of the caliper means essentially the same amount of fluid has to be moved in each of these different designs. There are of course other considerations that make the sliding caliper less than optimal, but they're cheaper to make hence why we still see them being used.

 

I just bought a couple of CRF style master cylinders to try out. Only £6 each on eBay - new. I know, Chinese manufactured (and supplied), but you can't knock the price and I'm sure they will actually work as well as I need - as long as the size is suitable.

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