6Th Gen Vfr Synthetic Oil And Filter Combo Options For Extended Mileage Intervals With Aggressive Riding

[007]

I have read a number of threads on oil and was hoping to utilize the impressive knowledge base on the forum for options on full synthetic oils and filters for my specific needs. In other words, I would like to know what the expert community would recommend given my situation. Some ideas, while still worthy of celebration for their own intended purpose, may be less relevant (ie, you only use the VFR to ride 10 miles on straight roads with no stops once a month for coffee or Great Grandfather Ulysses used brand X in his Ural with good results). No wars, please.

I would like to find a reasonable combination of the following for my specific purposes:

1. MOST IMPORTANT - Long life between changes (6K-8K miles) - I would rather spend my time riding than working on the bike. I realize the interval becomes a slippery slope as it is extended and will probably not exceed 8K.

2. Little drop off in clutch / transmission feel as the oil ages / wears. I generally ride the PACE on twisty NC mountain roads but occasionally test the limits of adhesion in more spirited form with more gear changes and WOT acceleration than average. If shifting or clutch engagement feels like crap after 2K miles (or immediately after the oil is changed as I have read in some experiences), it doesn't matter if I can safely go another 8K. If I don't enjoy the ride due to clunky shifting or grabbing/slipping clutch, I have no use for the oil. Are there aftermarket clutch plates that tolerate these issues better?

3. Long engine / transmission / clutch life should be maintained. The bike should make it to 100K+ miles without accelerated wear of parts, all other factors being equal. This is all pointless if I need an engine rebuild at 60K (now at 18K) that could have been prevented. Again, I would rather spend my time riding than working on the bike. I realize VFRs are bulletproof and one could use suntan oil (credit: Kimball), but I would rather not test this theory under extreme conditions on the middle of the Cherohala Skyway.

4. A rare track day, maybe once a year, should not have significant detrimental effect, although I would probably change the oil sooner if this is added to the mix.

I care very little about the following:

1. Price. I will pay 5-6x as much for oil / filter if there is no other way to attain 6-8K mile oil change intervals with minimal drop-off in function given my riding style. I am not looking to cut corners just for the sake of spending less. That being said, if the performance results are equivalent or nearly so, I would rather pay less. If it is cheaper to have my bike towed to the dealer for service with more frequent oil changes, that would also be a deal breaker.

2. Extra noises from CCTs, etc. I generally wear ear plugs and listen to music. The major deal breaker would be the noises indicate inadequate lubrication which will accelerate part wear.

3. What a specific oil or filter was initially designed for. If there is proof the oil does the job in the VFR via objective and subjective testing, I don't care if it originally was designed for cargo planes flying rubber dog sh*t out of Hong Kong.

4. Brand loyalty, humerous ads, beautiful women in ads, sponsored riders, etc. These things can be great, but I'm not interested in confusing oil performance for marketing performance.

5. The oil increases gas mileage or horsepower ratings. These are icing on the cake.

Regarding oils:

I have temporarily excluded non-synthetic or semi-synthetic oils due to generally lower mileage intervals, although will consider semis if there are major performance exclusions (as above) with full synthetic options. However, I know some riders have used semi-synthetic oils due to performance issues of full synthetics. If there is evidence otherwise, please inform. I usually don't ride in extreme cold weather below 40F, or in hot weather above 100F. However, I will pay a little more for an oil capable of these tasks, all else being equal.

Regarding filters:

I plan on changing the filter with each oil change. Some have written the paper filters begin to degrade after mileage / time passes. I will put 6-8K miles per year on the bike, so time is less of an issue than mileage. I have noticed that Purolator put out a synthetic version (PSL series) of its popular filter to minimize degradation over longer synthetic intervals (it appears there were some initial quality control issues of overspray and sloppy glue which have been resolved, hopefully?). There was also a warning on the Purolator website to not use the Pure One filters on motorcycles, although this seems questionable. Should I use a Pure One / PSL series anyway since it otherwise seems to be a good choice to fit my criteria? Since size does seem to matter, I was planning to use the 3.5 inch model over the 2.5, since it should be able to hold more waste debris. However, I am told this can be a bit difficult with stock EVAP parts still in place (how much more difficult?). Can I still use the lobster claw style oil filter grip or is the added length only a problem with the ratchet attachment version? Will I be satisfied with the 2.5 for performance and ease of installation?

Sorry for another oil thread, and please be civil. If specific oils / filters are recommended, please include reasons that will satisfy or oppose the conditions above. I especially want to hear from BR and his 100K+ machine. If I can use the same oil in my BMW K12S, which is part of the reason I want a full synthetic oil for the VFR, all the better.

[Switchblade]

After the post Kevin started on oil,

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/80405-new-oil-thread-for-winter/?hl=%2Boil+%2Bthread.

I have decide to go back to MobilOne Syn 5W-30 and of course Honda filters.

Gonna try 2000-3000 miles if I can bare it.

[MadScientist]

Obviously data is going to help you determine suitability in determining oil performace and drain interval, you should head over to the Bob is the Oil Guy forums and search for used oil analyses and virgin oil analyses. Searching the forums turns up a lot of real world data for a lot of oil, keep in mind the date that the analysis was performed may make the data irrelevant as oil formulations and production factories do change. You may want to pick your current preferred oil and look up a VOA just to get a benchmark when comparing other oils. I won't drivel in detail about different additives, you can find good information on that all over the web.

For the shifting performance here is my take on just oils I've put in the VFR. Unfortunately, my oil only stays in the bike 1 year and with multiple bikes, only sees about ~4000 miles of use.

Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 (~12000 total miles):

Not the best initial shift performance, but doesn't really get worse IME. Can do better, but not for less than $20 which is what I usually pay. Given that I change at <4k, hard to justify paying much more.

Mobil 4t 10w-40 (~8000 total miles):

Good initial shift performance, drops off at about 3k.

Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40 (~4000 miles):

About the same shifting as the 4t, seems like start-up clatter goes away a bit sooner which is prob attributed to the lower cold viscosity (5w). Bought a bunch at discount for my car (VW TDI).

Castrol Power RS Racing 4t (~150 miles):

Terrible initial shift performance, bought because it was on sale. Ended up loosing money on that deal since I changed it out for Rotella around the next fuel up.

For a filter, I used to use the PureOne filters, but they are really hard to find in my area now. Instead I've been using the NAPA platinum 41356. I have sectioned a PureOne and the media is definitely just fiberglass/cellulose, there is no mesh backer which means it isn't pure synthetic media. I haven't gotten around to opening one of the platinums, but they advertise it as full synthetic. I know that Amsoil also makes a line of full synthetic (Ea) oil filters too, and I used to run them on the Ducati, but I have to order them and they are expensive; not to mention the filter only stays on for 4k anyway. The Amsoil p/n is EA15k13 and runs about $16, the NAPA platinum usually runs me about $8.

[spud786]

Id be hard pressed to ever recall any synthetic on non synthetic oil light weight or heavy weight that made a significant difference with mileage, if so it would be in the tenths of a mile. Just never anything worry of consideration in mileage regard to a motorcycle.

For the money, its hard to beat 2 quarts of 10w40/ 1 quart of 20w50 for longevity of parts and oil change interval.

[Switchblade]

13.3W-43.3 ? ^^^^

[Cogswell]

For sourcing filters be they PureOne or otherwise, Amazon makes it convenient and cost effective. Since I don't have Prime, I buy enough for all my vehicles to receive free shipping. Purolator is also now making a synthetic media filter with a better quality base gasket and anti-drain valve. They do seem to be knocked occasionally due to overspray of the outer coating on the gasket. YMMV.

Also, about 2 years ago I began running a magnetic drain plug. It seems to capture a good deal of ferrous debris. Could be that the filter would catch it all, but overall I've been happy I installed it.

[spud786]

After the post Kevin started on oil,

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/80405-new-oil-thread-for-winter/?hl=%2Boil+%2Bthread.

I have decide to go back to MobilOne Syn 5W-30 and of course Honda filters.

Gonna try 2000-3000 miles if I can bare it.

Judging by BLS 700 mile uoa, 2 to 3,000 miles will look very ugly.

13.3W-43.3 ? ^^^^

The 20w50 just aides the keeping the 40 weight grade on a normal oci length , not a few hundred miles.

[Beck]

I dunno,..... With my car (a Toyota product) I feel like I might have just wasted using 100% synthetic (Mobil 1, always chaged at 5K miles) for the 100+K miles I had driven it, as the car now eats oil at close to two quarts per 1K miles.....

I thought the supposedly superior anti-friction/wear properties of fully synthetic oil would avoid such oil consumption even at 100K miles, especially with a very reliable Totyota engine. I would think the same applies to MC engines but with the wet clutch and higher average RPMs, the oil wiil have a harder task of keeping wear down in the engine......

[spud786]

I dunno,..... With my car (a Toyota product) I feel like I might have just wasted using 100% synthetic (Mobil 1, always chaged at 5K miles) for the 100+K miles I had driven it, as the car now eats oil at close to two quarts per 1K miles.....

I thought the supposedly superior anti-friction/wear properties of fully synthetic oil would avoid such oil consumption even at 100K miles, especially with a very reliable Totyota engine. I would think the same applies to MC engines but with the wet clutch and higher average RPMs, the oil wiil have a harder task of keeping wear down in the engine......

That's pretty severe, maybe you blew a valve seal or something.

Ive owned a few Toyotas never an oil burn issue at all, My wifes rav 4 has 120,000, and my chevy Colorado has 130,000 neither use oil , Thats one reason I don't want to replace them they've both been very reliable, and they are paid for. neither see synthetic , but pretty much most oils nowadays , can claim synthetic whether they are or not. I think you'd be shocked at how close many non labled syn oil (group 3) and syn group 3 are near the same base oil, very little difference in today oil world. They are all mostly hydrocracked group 3 oil.

[TNRabbit]

I've run the Shell Rotella T6 15W-40 with Purolator PureOne filter for the past 20,000 miles & I haven't had any issues with 8,000 mile intrrval oil changes. You can tell in the shifting at the tail end when it's time to change. I ride quite aggressively in the twisties as well as daily rider in the warm months (April-November). I'm going to try Amsoil 0W-40 motorcycle-exclusive oil this spring as I have been very happy with it in my automobiles. It is QUITE pricey @ $11/qt.

[MadScientist]

Sectioned a NAPA Platinum filter (41356) for the good of the herd.

Internals are all fairly high quality, no plastic or cardboard (FRAM ) to be found. The anti-drainback seal is high quality and rather thick. The pressure relief valve is all metal construction with appropriate spring pressure. Proper amount of adhesive is present; no globs and minimal filter area loss. Adhesive required ~1200 degree F heat gun to separate the caps of the filter unit, could not pry apart at 750. Filter unit is positioned within the cartridge with a coil spring, as opposed to the cheaper stamped steel spring on lower quality filters.

Filter material may be glass reinforced cellulose. Amsoil synthetic oil filters that I have sectioned have a slightly thicker, pillowy white media. This looks like the same material as the Mobil1 extended performance filters. Filter material is backed with a fine mesh screen. I counted 42 pleats with a depth of 17.5-18mm and they are distributed fairly evenly. The height from adhesive to adhesive is 48mm, giving an approximate filter material area of ~700 cm^2.

For $8, it is a fair deal. The Amsoil unit appears to be better but costs 2x as much. I would assume that the thicker media used in the Amsoil Ea oil filters has a higher crud holding capacity.

[Switchblade]

After the post Kevin started on oil,

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/80405-new-oil-thread-for-winter/?hl=%2Boil+%2Bthread.

I have decide to go back to MobilOne Syn 5W-30 and of course Honda filters.

Gonna try 2000-3000 miles if I can bare it.

Judging by BLS 700 mile uoa, 2 to 3,000 miles will look very ugly.

13.3W-43.3 ? ^^^^

The 20w50 just aides the keeping the 40 weight grade on a normal oci length , not a few hundred miles.

Mite try that next time.

Sectioned a NAPA Platinum filter (41356) for the good of the herd.

Internals are all fairly high quality, no plastic or cardboard (FRAM ) to be found. The anti-drainback seal is high quality and rather thick. The pressure relief valve is all metal construction with appropriate spring pressure. Proper amount of adhesive is present; no globs and minimal filter area loss. Adhesive required ~1200 degree F heat gun to separate the caps of the filter unit, could not pry apart at 750. Filter unit is positioned within the cartridge with a coil spring, as opposed to the cheaper stamped steel spring on lower quality filters.

Filter material may be glass reinforced cellulose. Amsoil synthetic oil filters that I have sectioned have a slightly thicker, pillowy white media. This looks like the same material as the Mobil1 extended performance filters. Filter material is backed with a fine mesh screen. I counted 42 pleats with a depth of 17.5-18mm and they are distributed fairly evenly. The height from adhesive to adhesive is 48mm, giving an approximate filter material area of ~700 cm^2.

For $8, it is a fair deal. The Amsoil unit appears to be better but costs 2x as much. I would assume that the thicker media used in the Amsoil Ea oil filters has a higher crud holding capacity.

That is a used oil filter ?

[Dae]

I owned a 1990 Accord new and drove it till 2001, put over 325,000 miles (523,000KM) before moving back to Korea. I gave the car away to a friend and he drove it for several more years. I always changed the oil, coolant, transmission fluid on a regular scheduled basis. The only failure was the brake master cylinder.

I have a 2010 VFR 1200 with over 160,000KM (100,000 miles) did basic maintenance and use Korean Jaso Ma approved oil.

Basically what I'm saying is if you stick to owners manual recommendations, you will get sick of your vehicle long before you'll ever develop engine issues.

[DriverDave]

I had great results on my 07 over 36k miles using Amsoil - http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/motorcycle/10w-40-advanced-synthetic-motorcycle-oil/?code=MCFQT-EA and HiFlo filters (HF204) - http://www.hiflofiltro.com/. I typically used a 4k or 5k mile change interval, but I would trust it up to 6k or 8k as well. Stay away from K&N oil filters as they can leak at the spot welded nut. Honda OEM filters are probably good, but I consider HiFlo better.

[MadScientist]

Switchblade - no, it is brand new. It's hard to learn anything and far messier with a used filter.

[Baileyrock]

Switchblade - no, it is brand new. It's hard to learn anything and far messier with a used filter.

They don't call you Mad for noth'en!

[MadScientist]

True, and I've done crazier. I mean what is the problem cutting open an $8 NAPA filter when you've already cut open a $16 Amsoil....

[KevCarver]

Run as long as you like with whatever you feel best about. Take a sample without draining and sent to Blackstone. See what they recommend as far as change interval. Be sure to tell them it wasn't drained and you would like to know how long to run it.

I don't care for the way Mobil 1 feels shifting in my 5G. I was running with Royal Purple for a while with Honda filters. Oil analysis suggested life wasn't worth the cost. IMO

Going off Bailey's old filter list, I started running Mobil 1 filters. The longer one fits no problem.

I'm not sure trolling for anecdotal evidence is really the way to go. Start with a sample of what's in there now, and up the mileage from where you usually change.

[Switchblade]

Switchblade - no, it is brand new. It's hard to learn anything and far messier with a used filter.

If it was used my next question was " WHAT OIL DO YOU USE " ?

Thanks for the report .

[007]

Run as long as you like with whatever you feel best about. Take a sample without draining and sent to Blackstone. See what they recommend as far as change interval. Be sure to tell them it wasn't drained and you would like to know how long to run it.

I don't care for the way Mobil 1 feels shifting in my 5G. I was running with Royal Purple for a while with Honda filters. Oil analysis suggested life wasn't worth the cost. IMO

Going off Bailey's old filter list, I started running Mobil 1 filters. The longer one fits no problem.

I'm not sure trolling for anecdotal evidence is really the way to go. Start with a sample of what's in there now, and up the mileage from where you usually change.

As always, the advice to conduct a scientific evaluation pertaining to my specific situation makes the most sense. The question is, where to start. From what I can tell, I should at least start with a high quality oil and filter that have objectively and subjectively tested well for others and then run my own tests to see how it applies to my situation. I'm thinking a high quality synthetic 5W-30 or 5W-40 with a good synthetic filter is the way to go.

[007]

After the post Kevin started on oil,

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/80405-new-oil-thread-for-winter/?hl=%2Boil+%2Bthread.

I have decide to go back to MobilOne Syn 5W-30 and of course Honda filters.

Gonna try 2000-3000 miles if I can bare it.

Yeah, I read all of that one and think those choices are a great place to start.

Obviously data is going to help you determine suitability in determining oil performace and drain interval, you should head over to the Bob is the Oil Guy forums and search for used oil analyses and virgin oil analyses. Searching the forums turns up a lot of real world data for a lot of oil, keep in mind the date that the analysis was performed may make the data irrelevant as oil formulations and production factories do change. You may want to pick your current preferred oil and look up a VOA just to get a benchmark when comparing other oils. I won't drivel in detail about different additives, you can find good information on that all over the web.

For the shifting performance here is my take on just oils I've put in the VFR. Unfortunately, my oil only stays in the bike 1 year and with multiple bikes, only sees about ~4000 miles of use.

Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 (~12000 total miles):

Not the best initial shift performance, but doesn't really get worse IME. Can do better, but not for less than $20 which is what I usually pay. Given that I change at <4k, hard to justify paying much more.

Mobil 4t 10w-40 (~8000 total miles):

Good initial shift performance, drops off at about 3k.

Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40 (~4000 miles):

About the same shifting as the 4t, seems like start-up clatter goes away a bit sooner which is prob attributed to the lower cold viscosity (5w). Bought a bunch at discount for my car (VW TDI).

Castrol Power RS Racing 4t (~150 miles):

Terrible initial shift performance, bought because it was on sale. Ended up loosing money on that deal since I changed it out for Rotella around the next fuel up.

For a filter, I used to use the PureOne filters, but they are really hard to find in my area now. Instead I've been using the NAPA platinum 41356. I have sectioned a PureOne and the media is definitely just fiberglass/cellulose, there is no mesh backer which means it isn't pure synthetic media. I haven't gotten around to opening one of the platinums, but they advertise it as full synthetic. I know that Amsoil also makes a line of full synthetic (Ea) oil filters too, and I used to run them on the Ducati, but I have to order them and they are expensive; not to mention the filter only stays on for 4k anyway. The Amsoil p/n is EA15k13 and runs about $16, the NAPA platinum usually runs me about $8.

Curious about the NAPA Platinums, but sounds like they are a reasonable choice. Probably won't get them since it is so much easier to make a couple of clicks on Amazon than run to the shop. However, might be going anyway for oil since Amazon prices can be steep. Did some reading on Bobistheoilguy site and hope to continue looking there.

For sourcing filters be they PureOne or otherwise, Amazon makes it convenient and cost effective. Since I don't have Prime, I buy enough for all my vehicles to receive free shipping. Purolator is also now making a synthetic media filter with a better quality base gasket and anti-drain valve. They do seem to be knocked occasionally due to overspray of the outer coating on the gasket. YMMV.

Also, about 2 years ago I began running a magnetic drain plug. It seems to capture a good deal of ferrous debris. Could be that the filter would catch it all, but overall I've been happy I installed it.

Have the drain plug magnet, so hope that helps limit debris.

I've run the Shell Rotella T6 15W-40 with Purolator PureOne filter for the past 20,000 miles & I haven't had any issues with 8,000 mile intrrval oil changes. You can tell in the shifting at the tail end when it's time to change. I ride quite aggressively in the twisties as well as daily rider in the warm months (April-November). I'm going to try Amsoil 0W-40 motorcycle-exclusive oil this spring as I have been very happy with it in my automobiles. It is QUITE pricey @ $11/qt.

Will probably avoid the Rotella due to the testing mentioned in BR's post as it ranked #121. I torture my bike beyond what I believe the Rotella will withstand based on this testing.

Sectioned a NAPA Platinum filter (41356) for the good of the herd.

Internals are all fairly high quality, no plastic or cardboard (FRAM ) to be found. The anti-drainback seal is high quality and rather thick. The pressure relief valve is all metal construction with appropriate spring pressure. Proper amount of adhesive is present; no globs and minimal filter area loss. Adhesive required ~1200 degree F heat gun to separate the caps of the filter unit, could not pry apart at 750. Filter unit is positioned within the cartridge with a coil spring, as opposed to the cheaper stamped steel spring on lower quality filters.

Filter material may be glass reinforced cellulose. Amsoil synthetic oil filters that I have sectioned have a slightly thicker, pillowy white media. This looks like the same material as the Mobil1 extended performance filters. Filter material is backed with a fine mesh screen. I counted 42 pleats with a depth of 17.5-18mm and they are distributed fairly evenly. The height from adhesive to adhesive is 48mm, giving an approximate filter material area of ~700 cm^2.

For $8, it is a fair deal. The Amsoil unit appears to be better but costs 2x as much. I would assume that the thicker media used in the Amsoil Ea oil filters has a higher crud holding capacity.

I will check out the local shops to see which filters are available compared to what I can get online and go from there. Thanks for all the help, guys.

[12bravo]

As a younger buck I had the time to take extended trips out West (5-10K miles) and that's where my search began and ended with Amsoil. I buy the 5 year "Dealer Membership" thing and go from there.

However, I do NOT buy anything else from Amsoil like filters, wiper blades etc., and I am NOT an actual dealer for profit. ( Their filter prices are a rip.)

When I go to order stuff some of my buddies will place an order as well, and we all split shipping costs.

I do web searches for the best deals on whatever filters I want and always buy in bulk; a case of filters, and the oil is bought in 1-2.5 gallon jugs if possible. Shipping & H can be a more expensive aspect of the cost but purchases can be picked up in Chicago or Superior store locations for nothing.

Moto specific oils? Haven't done em. The most specific details I'll look at with Amsoil are the Classifications needed to perhaps meet a warranty Spec..

I'll run up to 15K miles on an oil change, changing the oil filter every 5K miles in that window. The "1 year rule" ? I pretty much ignore it if that machine has not hit 10K miles.

I've run/tried most everything out there in our fleet which includes about 20 bikes, diesel VWs, a Prius, and an F250 PowerStroke; other synthetic oils start to burn off in a window at around 4-6K miles.

Living in the upper MW I'll do those bike oil changes in the Fall before winter storage, if they're even done at all.

One oil "trick" I've learned from our Ducati fore into bikes, from an old engine builder: let the engine idle for 60 seconds or so, before touching the throttle to go anywhere. Period. It's not for "warming" the engine, but for oil circulation into the heads and cam areas before stressing with anything else. No matter if you use Amsoil or not, use that one idea and you'll have happier machines.

I used to be one of the guys who had a REALLY hard time going past 2500 miles on a Dino. oil change, so it took a while to stretch my personal comfort zone to this 15K mileage thing but it's worked, and we've not had an engine failure yet. Not even in the race bikes.