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rangerscott69

5th gen "coil on plug" setup.

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Yes the 2008 fit perfectly if you are happy with the seals on the COP fitting inside the valve covers as apposed to them being capped on top. I think you would need the longer COP if you wanted to additionally cut and fit a capped seal.

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Yes the 2008 fit perfectly if you are happy with the seals on the COP fitting inside the valve covers as apposed to them being capped on top. I think you would need the longer COP if you wanted to additionally cut and fit a capped seal.

Ah, thanks for that. Did they fit down inside the head round the plug. The VFR1200 ones I tried were very tight before they had engaged on the plug. Did you have to shave the lower rubber section at all?

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On the basis that gig says they fit, I've ordered a set from an RR11 (same as RR8) off eBay. I suspect they're actually the same coil as the VFR1200, but with a different top seal which is not available separately, hence the different part number. I'll confirm that when I receive them,

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yes they fit perfectly without trimming seal.

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I used mother board standoffs to make the spark plug longer so the COP make a good connection with the spark plug, and an extra o ring to help seal them.

Haven't done a lot of ks with them, but I have done a trackday with them. Works great.

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I used mother board standoffs to make the spark plug longer so the COP make a good connection with the spark plug, and an extra o ring to help seal them.

Haven't done a lot of ks with them, but I have done a trackday with them. Works great.

The problem I see with the standoffs is that it pushes the whole thing away and off the plug. Normally the rubber end of the CoP is a snug fit around the plug and keeping it sealed. With the standoff you won't have that seal and more chance of problems if anything gets past the upper seal.

Not saying you will have problems, but it's something to be aware of.

I have also become aware that some VFRs use plugs with the exposed screw thread at the top and others use a plug with a solid top and any cap or CoP is only going to really fit properly on the plug type for which it was designed. Otherwise it will either not actually clip on or will be loose. Maybe these differences only apply to later VFRs already with CoPs and so fitting CoPs to earlier bikes shouldn't have this problem, but if the plugs have also been changed...

It might be an idea if thinking of doing this, to be sure the top of the plug is compatible with the CoP being installed.

Finally, I think the primary connections ARE polarity conscious. Get it wrong and I cannot but think it will fail to work correctly as the HT from the secondary coil will be trying to find ground through the primary. The negative side (earth) of both primary and secondary coils must be connected together. The secondary coli MUST be connected at both ends or current cannot flow. The high side is to ground via the plug (and the spark), but the low side has to be connected to ground to complete the circuit and without any other possible route, it must use the same ground terminal as the low side of the primary. At least, that's how I see it. If anyone thinks differently, please chime in.

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I used mother board standoffs to make the spark plug longer so the COP make a good connection with the spark plug, and an extra o ring to help seal them.

Haven't done a lot of ks with them, but I have done a trackday with them. Works great.

The problem I see with the standoffs is that it pushes the whole thing away and off the plug. Normally the rubber end of the CoP is a snug fit around the plug and keeping it sealed. With the standoff you won't have that seal and more chance of problems if anything gets past the upper seal.

Not saying you will have problems, but it's something to be aware of.

I have also become aware that some VFRs use plugs with the exposed screw thread at the top and others use a plug with a solid top and any cap or CoP is only going to really fit properly on the plug type for which it was designed. Otherwise it will either not actually clip on or will be loose. Maybe these differences only apply to later VFRs already with CoPs and so fitting CoPs to earlier bikes shouldn't have this problem, but if the plugs have also been changed...

It might be an idea if thinking of doing this, to be sure the top of the plug is compatible with the CoP being installed.

Finally, I think the primary connections ARE polarity conscious. Get it wrong and I cannot but think it will fail to work correctly as the HT from the secondary coil will be trying to find ground through the primary. The negative side (earth) of both primary and secondary coils must be connected together. The secondary coli MUST be connected at both ends or current cannot flow. The high side is to ground via the plug (and the spark), but the low side has to be connected to ground to complete the circuit and without any other possible route, it must use the same ground terminal as the low side of the primary. At least, that's how I see it. If anyone thinks differently, please chime in.

If you pick up an '08 CBR1k coil wire harness (~$20 USD on eBay) the wire color coding matches the 5th gen VFR and you can wire it directly into the VFR harness with no issues. I've put thousands of miles on mine with no issues.

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The COPs are shorter than the OEM leads, so without a longer spark plug, it doesn't make a proper electrical connection.

With the stand offs on a plug (outside the engine) the COP fits nice and tight, good seal, etc , etc.

With the standoff i do have that seal.

I just used direct replacement plugs, screw thread on top, screwed on the stand offs, and pushed the COP on.

It works.

And like rush said, the 08 harness matches colours and everything. it took me about 30 minutes.

Edited by keef

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I've installed the GSXR 600 plug packs with CBR wiring and connectors.

Got them both for under AU$50 from eBay 25000km's ago without a problem.

I've ridden in torrential downpours on long trips without a hiccup.

Used the CBR connectors as the wiring is the same colour as the VFR.

This is a great mod that is cheap and easy to do.

You lose a lot of weight and junk from around the air box.

Edited by VFROZ

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I used mother board standoffs to make the spark plug longer so the COP make a good connection with the spark plug, and an extra o ring to help seal them.

Haven't done a lot of ks with them, but I have done a trackday with them. Works great.

The problem I see with the standoffs is that it pushes the whole thing away and off the plug. Normally the rubber end of the CoP is a snug fit around the plug and keeping it sealed. With the standoff you won't have that seal and more chance of problems if anything gets past the upper seal.

Not saying you will have problems, but it's something to be aware of.

I have also become aware that some VFRs use plugs with the exposed screw thread at the top and others use a plug with a solid top and any cap or CoP is only going to really fit properly on the plug type for which it was designed. Otherwise it will either not actually clip on or will be loose. Maybe these differences only apply to later VFRs already with CoPs and so fitting CoPs to earlier bikes shouldn't have this problem, but if the plugs have also been changed...

It might be an idea if thinking of doing this, to be sure the top of the plug is compatible with the CoP being installed.

Finally, I think the primary connections ARE polarity conscious. Get it wrong and I cannot but think it will fail to work correctly as the HT from the secondary coil will be trying to find ground through the primary. The negative side (earth) of both primary and secondary coils must be connected together. The secondary coli MUST be connected at both ends or current cannot flow. The high side is to ground via the plug (and the spark), but the low side has to be connected to ground to complete the circuit and without any other possible route, it must use the same ground terminal as the low side of the primary. At least, that's how I see it. If anyone thinks differently, please chime in.

If you pick up an '08 CBR1k coil wire harness (~$20 USD on eBay) the wire color coding matches the 5th gen VFR and you can wire it directly into the VFR harness with no issues. I've put thousands of miles on mine with no issues.

PS: the '08 CBR1k COPs have a silver metallic body as opposed to the black plastic ones and they were long enough for the VFR plugs... fits nice and snug in the hole just like Gig said. Slid my bike into a gully and the fan + lights connections got screwed up... COPs, no problem... kept right on sparking away.

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If you pick up an '08 CBR1k coil wire harness (~$20 USD on eBay) the wire color coding matches the 5th gen VFR and you can wire it directly into the VFR harness with no issues. I've put thousands of miles on mine with no issues.

Indeed. All the CBR1000RRs use the same wire colours for each cylinder and probably 929 and 954 and maybe even CBR900RR before that. In fact i'd say it's a fair guess that Honda always use the same colours on their 4 cylinder bikes.

As an example of why we tend to moan about prices here in the UK, I just bought a suitable harness - from the US. It was cheaper to buy one from all the way over there AND ship it here AND pay any duties, than I could find one here. Greedy UK breakers want 3 TIMES the price. I made a reasonable offer, but was declined. Their loss.

It is immensely frustrating (not to say costly) to constantly see stuff available in the US for so much less than the UK. We don't call it "rip off Britain" for nothing. BTW, we're allowed to call it that, no-one else is. :laugh:

PS: the '08 CBR1k COPs have a silver metallic body as opposed to the black plastic ones and they were long enough for the VFR plugs... fits nice and snug in the hole just like Gig said. Slid my bike into a gully and the fan + lights connections got screwed up... COPs, no problem... kept right on sparking away.

I've already got some RR11 CoPs on their way to me. Bought from outside the UK of course as it was cheaper.

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Got CBR1000rr 2008 coils and loom coming. Will fit next weekend (busy this weekend). 

 

Two observations:

 

1. Both VFR and CBR have same spark plug gap of 0.8-0.9mm. Does this suggest COP doesn’t put out stronger spark than our fat green coils? Should we be widening the plug gap to 1mm with COP mod?  

 

2. Is there a way to run fresh cables and new Denso connector plugs from someplace on the loom? Metri pack waterproof ones are available cheap. I can’t help but feel splicing the CBR connectors onto the existing 19 year old wire is asking for trouble. Failed RR/stator connectors have made me overly cautious. 

 

3. A lot of the CBR ‘08+ coils on eBay look corroded across their metallic silver jackets. Not sure if this is due to water ingress or high heat (or both). The US ones are less corroded than UK ones, which suggests moisture is the issue. Should we be doing more to waterproof the spark well? Is an outwardly corroded coil likely to fail or is this just a cosmetic problem? Note: earlier CBR coils (and most other bikes too) are covered in black plastic so no corrosion is visible, although there may be some lurking within. 

 

Thanks to Ranger and all those other members who pioneered this mod - I am very grateful to you all! 

 

Stray

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Keep the gap the same, there is no advantage to a bigger gap. Spark intensity is what you're after. 

Original wiring is fine. There is no load on them wires. 

Corrosion on the metal caps is only cosmetic, water does not get into the plug connection. 

Just make sure the CBR boots seal on the VFR cover. 

I used GSXR coil packs, and had to cut a bit of the bottom of the boot cover for a tight fit. 

 

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Thanks VFROZ, I’ll follow your lead. 

 

These puppies arrived in the post Saturday.

 

4AB37ABA-A322-4E4F-9E5A-3C71825D0103.thumb.jpeg.019411448ad708e244d7aa33007ff7c9.jpeg

 

One coil is slightly corroded and it just happened to be the one with a loose top seal. Did the seal fail and let water in or did the corrosion stick it to the spark well requiring the breaker to tear it out with force (thereby wrecking the seal?).

 

I’ll never know but will ensure mine are watertight. Will put double o-rings on and ensure the slightly corroded one goes on the rear/right cylinder (least likely to get soaked there I think?). 

 

Anyway, I saw something else quite interesting on the wiring loom: 

 

28C80EC1-449A-4EE1-86B0-EEC327990421.thumb.jpeg.1e39f1e583a5ac3a2c888e34f00f8953.jpeg

 

I didn't realise Honda was sub-contracting out bits of their flagship bikes to China? I knew about the entry-level bikes but an ‘08 Fireblade? Surprised me a bit. 

 

I’m going to try crimping Metri-Pack type Denso connectors to the original VFR wires instead of cutting off the old ones from the CBR loom (will keep these on hand in case things go pear-shaped). My thinking is this method makes for a cleaner install but not sure if the original wires have enough length (funny, my wife was saying just that!). Picking up the new Denso connectors this week. 

 

Will post when done. 

 

Thanks again for for all the advice/help from the forum members!

 

Stray

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On 02/03/2016 at 11:09 AM, gig said:

Yes the 2008 fit perfectly if you are happy with the seals on the COP fitting inside the valve covers as apposed to them being capped on top. I think you would need the longer COP if you wanted to additionally cut and fit a capped seal.

Gig, are you sure the seal doesn’t need trimming? 

 

I just test-fitted a CBR1000RR 2008 COP in my 5th gen and it seems the rubber interferes with full insertion (ooh, Miss!). 

 

Here’s a pic of the COP with the seal on: 

 

E429146A-75EE-423B-AE16-B5A858A8F136.thumb.jpeg.c3e79961421cb4e7e423d7dfac015518.jpeg

 

Here’s a pic of the COP with the seal off: 

 

54EF45D5-A906-4BA9-9DAD-DFB433301515.thumb.jpeg.780440bcc13e90cc3a8e933cc90232ed.jpeg

 

See how the first one sits a bit prouder? It also felt like a nice positive engagement with the spark plug with the seal off. 

 

Not sure if it just needs a bit of lube and a harder push (I’ve got to stop using such language!) but I did lean on it pretty hard. 

 

Her’s a side-by-side of the VFR plug cap vs CBR COP.

 

2F1CF176-972E-4FF9-8446-BACA982654C0.thumb.jpeg.4fb4beb1e5aa1f30e38404735222a588.jpegLooks like you need to get the entire plug in to reach the required depth (there I go again). Those little square bits on the COP must be inside. 

 

For what it’s worth, without the top seal the COP wriggles about a bit so that’s not a solution. Of course it also leaves the spark well exposed to water ingress.

 

What’s the solution?

 

Stray  

 

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No such problem with the GSXR coil packs, and after a quick trim the boots seal over and in the VFR cover. 

D7D9DA08-59FF-4BD6-B8CC-E4D9B7C498FB.jpeg

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2 hours ago, VFROZ said:

No such problem with the GSXR coil packs, and after a quick trim the boots seal over and in the VFR cover. 

D7D9DA08-59FF-4BD6-B8CC-E4D9B7C498FB.jpeg

 

Yep, Suzuki parts are the answer. Sorry to say.

 

Mine are working fine

gallery_554_564_303729.jpg

IMG_5133.JPG.52131c92bcc81eeb8c3be86ec065f79a.jpg

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2 hours ago, SEBSPEED said:

Which ones did you end up using Robbie?

 

x2

 

Can someone positively ID the part # or specific donor bike model and year for the GSXR coils that have the "tophat" over the top style seal/boot? Thank you in advance. My ebay search for "gxsr coils" brings up quite a few variations (especially considering the volume of non-factory options) and Partzilla doesn't show specific part images for these. 

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Suzuki also use Denso COPs (like Honda), but there are a lot of different versions.  129700-3440, 3630, 3881, 3960, 4150, 4400, 4420, 4800, 5100, 5140, 5230 and 5330.  Those are just the ones I know of!  

 

I was just about to suggest that someone post the Denso part numbers of the "GSXR" COPs they've found to work...

 

Cheers,

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Mine are from a 2006 GSXR750. 

But you will find most Gixxers from that age are the same. 

 

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Just picked up 4 of these bad boys from a local tuner for £11.

 

 

 

DC8D39C2-8C59-494D-8C33-1E185803148B.thumb.jpeg.575b5ca8766613841223396bb79a57ee.jpegWill be crimping to VFR harness this weekend...

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4800 is what I would call a "long" COP with an external grommet.  Used on GSXR750 (06-07), GSXR600 (01-03), Yamaha XV1600.  Other long COPs with external grommets include: 5100 (also GSXR750 06-07?), 5140 (GSXR750 11-16) and 5230 (GSXR750 08-11).

 

I'm curious how Stray is going to seal his COPs...

 

All of the Honda COPs seem to be internally sealed, which means that the seal depends on the valve cover having a smaller orifice than I believe VFR valve covers have.  All of the externally sealed COPs I've tried on my 3rd gen do not really fit correctly, but VFROZ did mention that some trimming is required.  I've also tried swapping grommets between different COPs, but that wasn't much help.  (FYI, the 3rd gen cannot use the long COPs--it needs shorter ones to clear the radiator, but the only short ones I've found that had external grommets were on the Yamaha R6 ca. 2002.)

 

Ciao,

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