Member Contributer Skids Posted October 25, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 25, 2016 Woodie, there's a good Starter Valve sync guide on the Snug written by some genius! I don't think you can service the rear shock. I'd recommend a Nitron replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 You can't, but Jamie Daugherty can ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Woodie is in the UK and Jamie Daugherty is in the USA. Postage kills that idea. To Woodie, download the workshop manual in PDF from the link in my signature. There are written how-to tutorials with photos on this sight as well as video ones on YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Woodie Posted October 29, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 29, 2016 On 25/10/2016 at 11:17 AM, CandyRedRC46 said: Starter valve synchronization is throttle body balancing. Why do you think the engine noise is anything more than just CCT's? To service the rear shock, you can send it to DaughertyMotorsports.com Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk Well, the saga so far, replaced both CCT's still rattling. dismantled the front Cam Cover and checked the timing. spot on. Removed the water pump and there seems no float in the rotor. Can't get the clutch basket off but the oil pump seems OK but should there be slack in the pump dirve chain! I can't think of anything else that might make the noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 My clutch basket rattles a bunch, but it goes away when I pull in the clutch. Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted October 29, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 29, 2016 A video of the noise might be helpful. A stethoscope if available, a long screwdriver or my favorite low cost ones a length of moderate diameter rubber hose can also be used to locate sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Woodie Posted October 30, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2016 I was thinking of recording it. First I have to rebuild the engine! the only way I can describe it is as a rotating noise. like something is rotating against something else. like a cog or drive chain hitting something. I'm going to replace the CCTs with manuals first. I have the engine casing off and i have tried all the cam chains and they all seem taught so I can't see them being the source of the problem. I have removed the water pump to see if that had failed. I appeared to have lost water in the system so it seemed logical. but it works, it pumps and there is no float in the internals. Next I am looking at the oil pump, as previously mentioned I can't get the clutch basket off but there seems to be slack in the oil pump drive chain, not enough for it to jump a tooth but enough to expose the teeth of the sprocket if I push it with a finger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thtanner Posted October 30, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2016 Why are you going to use manual tensioners if you've already established the cam chain is not the source of the noise? Manual tensioners promote chain stretch over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Woodie Posted October 30, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, thtanner said: Why are you going to use manual tensioners if you've already established the cam chain is not the source of the noise? Manual tensioners promote chain stretch over time. As a troubleshooting tool. As I have serviced the CCT's and not replaced them I need to be sure they cured the problem. Manual CCT's would be used to ensure they were functioning properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thtanner Posted October 30, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2016 Ah ok, makes sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted October 30, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2016 The initial post mentioned a lack of power. Is that still the case since the work that's been done? If going manual CCT's it pays to be careful. Someone not so long ago mentioned breaking a cam chain by going too tight. It did though get rid of the noise while it lasted . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Woodie Posted October 31, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2016 15 hours ago, Cogswell said: The initial post mentioned a lack of power. Is that still the case since the work that's been done? If going manual CCT's it pays to be careful. Someone not so long ago mentioned breaking a cam chain by going too tight. It did though get rid of the noise while it lasted . . . I can't tell. as it rattles when I do get it started I haven't run it for any distance. until I ensure I have isolated all the different possibilities of the rattle. Another member from a UK VFR Based forum has floated the possibility of a bearing failure. That sounds rather ominous and expensive. As I mentioned. I would use a manual CCT to ensure Auto CCT's are not the cause, before moving on to isolate other possible sources. Hopefully by this weekend I will have disproved anything I can think of and possibly take it for a run. see if the power has returned. That maybe a red herring as I was riding VERY conservatively when the noise first manifested itself but I can't discount it yet. ho hum.. good Job my "Unreliable " Triumph still goes ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 On 10/29/2016 at 2:15 PM, Woodie said: Well, the saga so far, replaced both CCT's still rattling. On 10/30/2016 at 5:29 AM, Woodie said: I was thinking of recording it. First I have to rebuild the engine! Just next time when you check if it is still rattling, do it on camera (somewhere near engine). Some people here may recognize the sound. If you think it's not doing any more damage, try with clutch on/off, idle and higher revs steady and with short bursts of throttle from idle. Or just idle if sound seems smth bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Woodie Posted November 1, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 1, 2016 9 hours ago, Nobody said: Just next time when you check if it is still rattling, do it on camera (somewhere near engine). Some people here may recognize the sound. If you think it's not doing any more damage, try with clutch on/off, idle and higher revs steady and with short bursts of throttle from idle. Or just idle if sound seems smth bad. Unfortunately the engine is still in bits until I can get a Clutch Retaining tool to fit. as soon as I get it back together I will record the noise. it rattles with the clutch in, clutch out, on idle, at revs, it sounds like something is catching against a cog or chain as the frequency of the sound rises with the engine revolutions. Another forum has suggested this may be indicative of bearing failure. TBH I have given up and purchased a second hand engine. I still intend to find this fault and repair it (As it's irritating me) but I don't have the time to waste trying to isolate the fault. Despite the fact I have another bike to use I don't want this taking up garage (workshop) space I can use for 'fun' projects. Many thanks to all those who have replied with suggestions. I will of course report back when I have sussed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Woodie Posted November 14, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 14, 2016 And so the saga continues. having procured a cheap replacement engine I am now trying to extract the old one. after two days of heat guns, soaking the engine mount in WD-40, propane torch on the crash-bung mounting bars I am still no closer. I've managed to get the swing arm off, even though I can't remove the rear headers or the exhaust, by removing the rear shock and wiggling the swing arm mount free. I have had to cut the engine mounting bar by chopping through the spacer and bar in one go and I have created a small enough gap on the other side to get a hacksaw blade in and cut the bar. I just have to work out how to support the frame while I get the engine out as the centre stand attaches to the engine! Once I get the engine out I should be able to drill the exhaust mounting bolt that resides under the sump. What a faff! Anyone want to buy a half built 6th Gen ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC36Rider Posted November 14, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 14, 2016 Tried this ? Loctite Freeze & Release No experience. Just curious to know if it works as advertised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Woodie Posted November 14, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 14, 2016 2 hours ago, RC36Rider said: Tried this ? Loctite Freeze & Release No experience. Just curious to know if it works as advertised. Nah, I had used heat. I had tried some freezer spray from my Computer toolbox but it didn't seem to help. My experience with engine mount bolts on my Old Suzuki was if heat didn't do the job, the only recourse was to either drill out the offending bar or use spark erosion. The problem is the aluminium corrodes and swells to form a very tight seal on the s/steel bar. Once I had cut the spacer away I managed to drift the remains of the bar out of the frame but even that took some mighty persuasion, and that was only held along a short length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thtanner Posted November 14, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 14, 2016 Depending on access, some shock to the bolts can help free the threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Woodie Posted November 15, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 15, 2016 18 hours ago, thtanner said: Depending on access, some shock to the bolts can help free the threads. The offending mounting is not threaded, it is a straight bar that goes from one side to the other. It's purely Bi-metal corrosion that is holding it in pace and I know from bitter experience just how tight that can grip. I have been using a steel drift and a lump hammer to try and shift it so if THAT hasn't shocked it free nothing will. LOL. I haven't touched it for a few days as I am now trying to suss out how to secure the frame while I drop the engine out. if anyone has any ideas I'm listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Bent Posted November 19, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted November 19, 2016 Man, this is an ordeal! People that don't take care of VFR's need to be hung, drawn, then quartered. Keep us posted and hand in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Woodie Posted November 21, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 21, 2016 On 19/11/2016 at 1:47 PM, Bent said: Man, this is an ordeal! People that don't take care of VFR's need to be hung, drawn, then quartered. Keep us posted and hand in there! Thanks Bent, I managed to get the old engine out over the weekend and the replacement one in. Gave up trying to lift the engine and dropped the frame onto the engine. Spent much of the weekend drilling old bolts out (Exhaust mount, centre stand, starter motor) and now have all the running gear in place, although I had to fit the swing arm twice.... guess who forgot the chain ? I don't think I managed to salvage enough head studs/exhaust nuts so I need to order them before I fit that. now comes the slow rebuild where I try and remember where everything goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Woodie Posted December 21, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted December 21, 2016 Righto... progress so far.. Engine in.... Engine out again due to trapping a couple of electrical connectors between the rear head and the frame... Grrrr.. Engine back in again.. now I just had to find where everything connected too. After lots and lots of trial and error I've got everything connected. I nearly had to take the lump out again as had got some connectors (the 02 sensors, side stand switch and gear selector switch) routed wrong but managed to get it back up the frame and back down again. Exhaust fitted with new studs. I did buy a box of VFR bolts from a breaker so managed to salvage 10 header nuts by drilling and cleaning them up. Most of them had snapped when the exhaust was removed from both engines but I managed to get new studs. I did forget to put one in the rear barrel but managed to fiddle that one in. How on earth do people get the exhaust off without removing the engine? Oil in, need to bleed the clutch... (I can tell that's gonna be another saga.) water pipes and rads have been on and off a couple of times in order to get the wiring routed correctly. does anyone know how the pipe from the top of the R/hand radiator to the bottom of the water reserve tank routes. I have the pipe but it seems odd to route a cooling pipe across the front of a hot engine. Fingers crossed I'll have a go at starting it this week. My only concern is the wiring to the injectors. I think I've got them on right but I can't find any markings on the connectors denoting which lead is for which cylinder... Ho Hum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted December 21, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted December 21, 2016 39 minutes ago, Woodie said: Fingers crossed I'll have a go at starting it this week. My only concern is the wiring to the injectors. I think I've got them on right but I can't find any markings on the connectors denoting which lead is for which cylinder... Ho Hum Hi Woodie. The Injectors are a two wire device, one wire on all 4 injectors will be a Black/White wire. The other wire will define the Injector number. Injector - 1 Pink/Blue wire Injector - 2 Red/Yellow wire Injector - 3 Pink/Green wire Injector - 4 Pink/Black wire This is according to the 6th Gen wiring diagram I have. Do you have a wiring diagram????? Hope this helps. Cheers. Grum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Woodie Posted December 21, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted December 21, 2016 Cheers Grum. I have a service manual I downloaded from here but I can't remember if it has a wiring diagram. and to be honest the wires all looked the same colour! "Road Dirt Black!"... Bugger that means I've go to fight the air box back off again ! ! ! thanks for the information anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Jayzuz Woodie, struth mate!! That's some mighty fun you be having there. I don't know how I missed this thread. I do apologize. I swapped* engines on my 6th gen a few years ago. I could have told you I didn't drop the engine out so much as lift the frame of one engine and drop it on the other. So sorry you had to find out the hard way. We, buddy and I, also encountered an oxidized, Excaliburized, mounting rod which was nigh impossible to remove. In my case the one holding the swing arm on. Took an entire morning of invoking a berserk warrior state and performing exorcisms with heat and cold and an F'ing Big Mallet. My mate finally went ballistic, demon possessed and got it out. Not without deforming the surrounding casing a bit.We too had to remove and remount the frame once and forks once or twice due to routing stuff wrongly.I may have been able to help, although would mostly be relying on my, watchamecallit? Oh, yeah, memory! I guess this just makes it worse really, should have shut me gob.In as much as the noise that started all this... Reconditioning the CCTs doesn't always do the job. Unless you swapped the springs out for known good ones. Sometimes people just get lucky. They're not the best design unfortunately. New ones will be the only definitive way of ruling CCT noise out. Even then, engine oil brand and SAE can be enough, I myself am witness to it. Try changing brands/SAE.If I can be of any assistance I will try. Here's a long shot. I once thought my 6th gen has CCT noise but discovered the gasket on one of the joints for the rear headers was cracked and a loose piece was rattling. Didn't go away by grabbing the clutch. Frequency of rattle followed RPMs. Thought it was coming from rear CCT as they are in the same area. Swapped CCTs, rear first, didn't fix it. Then squatting there like Rossi does, at the foot peg, I suddenly picked up on it. No idea how. Just luck. Swapped out the gasket (yes, the exhaust removal on this bike is fun), no more rattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.