lshark Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 the ECU needs ambient temp info for cold starting etc i live in Northern NJ/NYC area too.....filtering will get you killed here...if you're lucky, just lose a leg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfreako Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 I haven't bothered to read the 3 pages of reply here, but I'll give you my 2p anyway, so forgive my ignorance if something has already been mentioned. I also live in London, zone 2. I have to travel from the west to the east, straight thru the heart of the city on the ring road. My commute to work is just over 8 miles. I barely leave 2nd gear, and find myself in 1st far too much then I'd like. I get about 85-95 miles before hitting reserve, which I think is about 15L. Some days the traffic flows nicely or I'm riding at 6am in the morning, and I would get around 95 miles. Other days it's just crap and I'm weaving in and out non-stop, and I get around 80 miles. It's interesting that you say the pads drag, because it does it to mine too. I thought my brakes were stuffed, but every time I remove and clean the callipers and put the pads back in, they are fine for another week or so. That is until they accumulate more crap from road. I come from Australia and I had a Blackbird before this bike, it also used the dual braking system. I never had an issue with the pads dragging at all. However, I believe that the roads here are worse, not only from the condition of the potholes, but because of the constant light rain flicking up the very fine silt, dirt, crap.... whatever is on the road. I never had that issue back home, I also never had to clean my callipers either. So I think the accumulation of all this road crap just messes up your brake pistons, causing them not to retract fully into the calliper. Which is why I tend to pull my callipers off and give them a bit of a clean every 6 months or so. It's good to hear your story about your commute and experiences with the bike, as it pretty much lines up with mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted February 27, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 27, 2016 You two need to team up and ride in together . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dawson Posted February 27, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 27, 2016 Hey Rush, Grum cleared it up. Was talking about the ECT sensor. Just wanted to point out that the dash display may not be an accurate representation of what the ECU is seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
750 Posted February 27, 2016 Author Share Posted February 27, 2016 I haven't bothered to read the 3 pages of reply here, but I'll give you my 2p anyway, so forgive my ignorance if something has already been mentioned. I also live in London, zone 2. I have to travel from the west to the east, straight thru the heart of the city on the ring road. My commute to work is just over 8 miles. I barely leave 2nd gear, and find myself in 1st far too much then I'd like. I get about 85-95 miles before hitting reserve, which I think is about 15L. Some days the traffic flows nicely or I'm riding at 6am in the morning, and I would get around 95 miles. Other days it's just crap and I'm weaving in and out non-stop, and I get around 80 miles. It's interesting that you say the pads drag, because it does it to mine too. I thought my brakes were stuffed, but every time I remove and clean the callipers and put the pads back in, they are fine for another week or so. That is until they accumulate more crap from road. I come from Australia and I had a Blackbird before this bike, it also used the dual braking system. I never had an issue with the pads dragging at all. However, I believe that the roads here are worse, not only from the condition of the potholes, but because of the constant light rain flicking up the very fine silt, dirt, crap.... whatever is on the road. I never had that issue back home, I also never had to clean my callipers either. So I think the accumulation of all this road crap just messes up your brake pistons, causing them not to retract fully into the calliper. Which is why I tend to pull my callipers off and give them a bit of a clean every 6 months or so. It's good to hear your story about your commute and experiences with the bike, as it pretty much lines up with mine. Hey mate, Yeah, just like me - rarely leave 2nd. I reckon I'm going to give it two more weeks and see what the average MPG is. If it's awful, I'll be putting the bike away and only using it for long rides out. The Honda dealer advised me it's normal for the brakes to sound like they're dragging. I find the bike is a beast to push around the garage, but at around 280kg, it's no surprise. Where abouts in west London are you? I used to live in Ealing and then Shepherds Bush for a while. Moved out to Weybridge then met the Mrs and moved in with her outside Greenwich. I find it amazing that the calipers are so easily affected by our roads, all my other bikes have been fine - albeit giving them a strip and clean once every two years as I ride year round, the past couple of winters have been very mild though. So it sounds like you're getting better mpg than me, do you tend to keep it under a certain rpm? Maybe I've done the usual first-week-with-a-bike thing and opened it up a bit too much. Either way, shockingly bad economy regardless of the weight and power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridered Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I just took mine for a good romp in the county. Averaged 40mpg compared to my normal sub 30 commuting. This bike just likes open spaces. Talked to a guy at work on a ninja 1000 and he averages 30mpg with a 1000cc bike that is 100 pounds lighter. Seem normal to me. Just not great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfreako Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Hey mate, Yeah, just like me - rarely leave 2nd. I reckon I'm going to give it two more weeks and see what the average MPG is. If it's awful, I'll be putting the bike away and only using it for long rides out. The Honda dealer advised me it's normal for the brakes to sound like they're dragging. I find the bike is a beast to push around the garage, but at around 280kg, it's no surprise. Where abouts in west London are you? I used to live in Ealing and then Shepherds Bush for a while. Moved out to Weybridge then met the Mrs and moved in with her outside Greenwich. I find it amazing that the calipers are so easily affected by our roads, all my other bikes have been fine - albeit giving them a strip and clean once every two years as I ride year round, the past couple of winters have been very mild though. So it sounds like you're getting better mpg than me, do you tend to keep it under a certain rpm? Maybe I've done the usual first-week-with-a-bike thing and opened it up a bit too much. Either way, shockingly bad economy regardless of the weight and power. I live out near Maida Vale, and commute over to Canary Wharf. I don't do nearly as much commuting as I did the year before, I tend to catch the tube more as it's easy door-to-door travel. When I do, thou, I usually flick between 1st/2nd, with anything over 20mph being 2nd gear. If I remember correctly that usually sits me at around 3,000rpm, rarely would I ever break 4,000 because of the speed of the traffic. To give you a better idea of my fuel economy I've attached a screenshot of my fuel-up app that I use. I've been using it since day one, entered in every single fill up I've done (I'm a bit fussy like that), including all my servicing too (not shown). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
750 Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 Makes my butthole purse up when I see petrol costs like that haha, madness isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotardMenace Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Well I have been watching the fuel gauge here now for the past couple weeks to see how it is doing. I would report that it is not great but I am averaging about 27-28 mpg on my commute which is 25 miles round trip with about 8 miles on the freeway and the rest on city streets. I am generous with the throttle as well, so if I rode a little more eco friendly I could see it popping up to 35 mpg's pretty easy. I figure its still better then the old 740iL which gets me about 17 mpg, but my foot is heavy as fark on that thing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Just to add to the ECT sensor info. I just changed the ECT on my Acura Integra, which is also a Honda. There were two coolant sensors, one in the thermostat housing and one in the cylinder head. The one in the thermostat housing was a one wire sensor that gave info to the coolant temp gauge, it was fine and reading fairly accurately. The one in the head is responsible for giving info to the ECU to make fueling changes based upon engine temp. It is a two wire sensor and I suspected that it was not providing accurate info to the ECU anymore, as I was having a cold start issue and some rough running. I could very well guess that if your ECT sensor was acting up, your ECU would think that your engine was colder than actual and could be feeding your engine too much fuel. It is worth looking into. your system may be similar to Automotive Honda. It was fairly simple and only cost $20.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
750 Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 Thanks Candy, I wouldn't know where to begin changing that though - electrics are the absolute weakspot for me, I know nothing...literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2010-honda-vfr1200f/o/m19229#sch657641 Part number 10, in the back left hand side of the cylinder head while sitting on the bike. $24 for the sensor and $2 for the washer. It shouldn't take long to install it. I would just do it as a process of elimination and if it doesn't fix anything, chalk it up to preventative maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer whiteknuckles Posted March 18, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 18, 2016 Just had an interesting conversation with a guy who is a well known tuner in my area after he dyno'd my bike due to poor fuel economy. I'm getting about 25 mpg on my '02 VFR with 37K miles. I was running VERY rich at low throttle. He improved things as best he could with a custom map using my PC5, but noticed irregular/inconsistent/unsteady air/fuel ratios in my power band. He recommends I have my injectors cleaned, and interestingly, recommends I pull my throttle body assembly and clean the intake area with a soft cloth using carb cleaner. He suspects either or both of these issues is causing inconsistent fuel delivery. I know the intake is dirty, as I saw it when I replaced the vacuum lines on the throttle body assembly, but I didn't think to clean it. So my next quest has been revealed. I seek the holy grail of fuel economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 The wrong solvents can ruin the butterfly closed position sealing. I cannot comment on this solvent, maybe others can feedback. But be careful there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Skids Posted March 18, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 18, 2016 John, having watched your vid I don't envy you your commute but would suggest that your fuel consumption is reasonable when you consider the bike and the way you have to ride it; lots of short acceleration (which uses a lot of fuel for not much distance) in a low gear, repeated many, many times. On later models, you can monitor the fuel consumption so others could expose their 1200s to similar conditions & I bet they'd get similar results. I guess the only way to know for sure, as has been suggested, is to take it out on a nice cruise up a decent stretch of motorway. On my commute to work up the A1 I get ~47mpg. If you get anywhere near that, then there's nothing wrong with the bike and it's the environment you find yourself in that is causing it. If you can find some back roads, then you'll get closer to 40mpg, but again it depends how you ride it. I have a friend and when we rode our 6th Gens together, he'd always put more fuel in than me and we figured out it was because he always kept the revs in the 4-valve range ie a lower gear than me. I really think it's the way you have to ride the bike that's causing such an issue. JMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Disadvantage shaft drive - cannot alter the gearing for low speed commuting. That probably would be the biggest help. JohnLondon would you please add this bike to your profile? I don't always look at the discussion group but first look at peoples' profiles. Only feedback from the bike can tell the definite story. Yes the long freeway jaunt with a very gentle throttle will return the maximum mileage, an excellent comparison point. Another feedback loop is to have a dyno shop do a gas analysis and perhaps read the ECU to see if the programming is stock or altered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoystonRocket2 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 I have a friendI thought we talked about these fantasies of yours??? ;-)Have to agree with Skids though. I can get good mileage on a A to B run but equally have easily emptied it in less than 80 miles when playing out in the country lanes. I could easily imagine getting the mpg the OP quotes on a commute like that. It's how you use that big V4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
750 Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 John, having watched your vid I don't envy you your commute but would suggest that your fuel consumption is reasonable when you consider the bike and the way you have to ride it; lots of short acceleration (which uses a lot of fuel for not much distance) in a low gear, repeated many, many times. On later models, you can monitor the fuel consumption so others could expose their 1200s to similar conditions & I bet they'd get similar results. I guess the only way to know for sure, as has been suggested, is to take it out on a nice cruise up a decent stretch of motorway. On my commute to work up the A1 I get ~47mpg. If you get anywhere near that, then there's nothing wrong with the bike and it's the environment you find yourself in that is causing it. If you can find some back roads, then you'll get closer to 40mpg, but again it depends how you ride it. I have a friend and when we rode our 6th Gens together, he'd always put more fuel in than me and we figured out it was because he always kept the revs in the 4-valve range ie a lower gear than me. I really think it's the way you have to ride the bike that's causing such an issue. JMHO. Yeah, no doubt. Kind of already resigned to that thinking tbh. Big heavy bastard large capacity V4 is never going to be healthy on fuel when you're riding like I do. TBF the engine is barely getting time to warm up before I arrive at work as well haha. In all honesty, I don't want to keep the bike. I love the power, love the brakes, love the obvious build quality - but I just can't gel with it, it's too heavy and lumbering, too much labour is required to throw it around. I was riding my 750 for the past week and it was ear to ear grins the whole time (but with almost as bad fuel economy haha). I just can't find another VFR that I love more. So this one has to go. No denying it's a great bike, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Skids Posted March 19, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 19, 2016 John, having watched your vid I don't envy you your commute but would suggest that your fuel consumption is reasonable when you consider the bike and the way you have to ride it; lots of short acceleration (which uses a lot of fuel for not much distance) in a low gear, repeated many, many times. On later models, you can monitor the fuel consumption so others could expose their 1200s to similar conditions & I bet they'd get similar results. I guess the only way to know for sure, as has been suggested, is to take it out on a nice cruise up a decent stretch of motorway. On my commute to work up the A1 I get ~47mpg. If you get anywhere near that, then there's nothing wrong with the bike and it's the environment you find yourself in that is causing it. If you can find some back roads, then you'll get closer to 40mpg, but again it depends how you ride it. I have a friend and when we rode our 6th Gens together, he'd always put more fuel in than me and we figured out it was because he always kept the revs in the 4-valve range ie a lower gear than me. I really think it's the way you have to ride the bike that's causing such an issue. JMHO. Yeah, no doubt. Kind of already resigned to that thinking tbh. Big heavy bastard large capacity V4 is never going to be healthy on fuel when you're riding like I do. TBF the engine is barely getting time to warm up before I arrive at work as well haha. In all honesty, I don't want to keep the bike. I love the power, love the brakes, love the obvious build quality - but I just can't gel with it, it's too heavy and lumbering, too much labour is required to throw it around. I was riding my 750 for the past week and it was ear to ear grins the whole time (but with almost as bad fuel economy haha). I just can't find another VFR that I love more. So this one has to go. No denying it's a great bike, though. Do you feel that way because the way you have to ride it? It's not what it was designed for. And if you are prepared to spend some cash on the suspension, you can get it to handle as well as an 800, and as easy too. Perhaps you need to buy a commuter bike and make sure you get out of town on the 1200 a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
750 Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 No to the way I ride it. Also, no matter the suspension, it's never going to flick side to side as well as something lighter and with a not-so-wide rear tyre, it is what it is. I pined after one of these bikes for ages and it just isn't what I expected it to be. It's just not an exciting, involved bike. That's my opinion, has nothing to do with the route, roads or traffic. It's just too bloated in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 raise the fork tubes a few mm's in the triple trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rectaltronics Posted March 19, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 19, 2016 This reminds me of fabulous time commuting in NYC. That was fold your mirrors kinda tight. Most time spent idling. Got avg of 150 miles to a tank. I commute every day in NYC. 150 miles to a tank is still a lot better than 15 MPG. Only time I ever got such poor mileage out of a tank of gas was at WOT for most of the tank on my 5th gen. Which actually tends to get relatively good mileage under most circumstances. I wuz in a hurry that day. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
750 Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 I bet I could bring it down to 40 miles to the tank if I rode it like I do my VFR750. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floydy Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Reading that the OP reported low fuel economy when commuting In London traffic does not surprise ME. My 2010 DCT (20,000 miles) can return anything from mid 20's to mid 30's (UK MPG) when ridden around London depending on the traffic. I also find that commuting in London creates a demand for a lot more maintenance to the brakes and main stand if they are not to seize up. The brakes begin to drag if neglected and I then have to resort to rinsing out the callipers, discs and front disc bobbins. I frequently travel between London and Cambridgeshire and see 42.8 MPG average so long as I do not ride around London the whole time. In fact my 1200 DCT is on a par with the VFR 800 FiX I owned previously for fuel economy despite differences between the engine(s) and weight(s). The pic below shows the highs and lows with 43 MPG being the average for the 1200 and 45 for the 800. The best ever was 62 MPG surprisingly and the lowest was 27 MPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Skids Posted March 28, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 28, 2016 No to the way I ride it. Also, no matter the suspension, it's never going to flick side to side as well as something lighter and with a not-so-wide rear tyre, it is what it is. I pined after one of these bikes for ages and it just isn't what I expected it to be. It's just not an exciting, involved bike. That's my opinion, has nothing to do with the route, roads or traffic. It's just too bloated in my opinion. That's fine and of course you are entitled to your opinion. Now that the suspension is sorted on mine, it is so easy to ride, it does flick, though I'm sure not like a sportsbike, and the engine is stonking! Each to their own and what a boring world it would be if we all liked the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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