Member Contributer Dutchy Posted October 4, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 4, 2015 and how do I fix it..... Got a Stebel for the VF since the OEM is a "meep meep" only. Wanting to test the Stebel I hooked her up w/o fitting a relay..... Yep that sounds a LOT better, gave a good long blast and then thought "ach I donot need a relay do I?" Result...... Stebel stopped working. OOPS pulled the cables from the unit and put the multimeter on the wires, contact on, press claxon button.. zip nada where I was expecting to read ~12V no? Hooked up to the oem horn... sip nada... so where do I go next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer fink Posted October 4, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 4, 2015 Check the fuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted October 4, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 4, 2015 Ah I forget to type the 15A HORN/SIGNAL/BRAKE is ok (and I put in another one for good measure Indicators and brake light work.. Thanks for the reply though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFRBert Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 switch burnt !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted October 4, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 4, 2015 And now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFRBert Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Open it the brass parts may be damaged. Requiring some Mcguiver work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFRBert Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Alternatieve: http://www.motorsloop.com/images/honda/MG79YLVF500F057.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Too much amps going through the relay-less circuit, so, the contact on the switch might be the most likely thing that burnt out. A relay usually will get your capacity up to 20 amps, more than what's needed to handle the air pump on Stebel air horns..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted October 5, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 5, 2015 Fried !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 And now.... Was it the switch contacts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted October 6, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 6, 2015 Still cooling down ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rectaltronics Posted October 6, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 6, 2015 and how do I fix it..... Got a Stebel for the VF since the OEM is a "meep meep" only. Wanting to test the Stebel I hooked her up w/o fitting a relay..... Yep that sounds a LOT better, gave a good long blast and then thought "ach I donot need a relay do I?" Result...... Stebel stopped working. OOPS pulled the cables from the unit and put the multimeter on the wires, contact on, press claxon button.. zip nada where I was expecting to read ~12V no? Hooked up to the oem horn... sip nada... so where do I go next? Ugh. That Stebel draws around three to four times the current of your stock horn. Time to open the switch housing, inspect the contacts and check for voltage in and out there. Depending on the length of the blast you could have turned a piece of wire or an interconnect into an impromptu fuse someplace. Next time you wanna test any horn, connect it straight to a bike or car battery, using #12 or heavier wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted October 7, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 7, 2015 Well euh................... ok no hiding from the truth for my friends... since the wires to the stock horn are obviously too short to reach all the way down, I had "fabricated" a set of wires with connectors. I had not properly crimped one and I put vulcanizing tape on. I never spotted that the wire had come loose from the connector during the installation where I pulled at the wires a bit... Only after I removed the extension cable and put the Fluke on the original connectors, getting 12V it dawned on me.... <egg on face> All secured now through relay and fuse The '86 VF500F2 no longer has a fuel pump so that freed up space comes in handy. Yes I have fitted heat shrink over the connectors since! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rectaltronics Posted October 7, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 7, 2015 Glad you didn't hurt anything. 'cept yer ego... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer PorradaVFR Posted October 7, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 7, 2015 Since I don't know nothin' about electricity...how does adding a relay eliminate the fact that the horn still needs those (?) 20A going through the factory horn switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzed_viffer Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Since I don't know nothin' about electricity...how does adding a relay eliminate the fact that the horn still needs those (?) 20A going through the factory horn switch? That's the point: a relay is like a switch that can handle higher currents, and is operated by another switch that can't - in this case, the horn button. when you press the horn button, it closes a circuit in the relay, activating a heavy duty electromagnetic switch, allowing current to flow from the battery, through the heavy gauge wires, through the relay, and to the horn. The horn button now only handles very low current flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rectaltronics Posted October 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 8, 2015 Since I don't know nothin' about electricity...how does adding a relay eliminate the fact that the horn still needs those (?) 20A going through the factory horn switch? At the most basic level that you need here, electricity isn't a big mystery. It's somewhat like plumbing. More electrical current (described as amps) is a bit like more water, which requires bigger pipes and bigger valves. I don't know if this is gonna help you or confuse you more but here's one discussion with pix: http://www.rattlebars.com/avalanche/relay_basics.html Normally the button on your handlebar operates a small switch inside the plastic housing and that switch has fairly light-duty contacts. The switch just closes an electrical circuit to/from your stock horn. The stock horn does not draw that much current and so does not require very substantial wires, switch contacts or fuses. With a relay, electrically the relay takes the place of the stock horn. The horn button then sends the electricity to operate a small electro-magnet inside the relay housing. That electro-magnet requires very little current. The electro-magnet operates a switch inside the relay housing which has much more substantial contacts than the switch on your handlebar. That heavier-duty switch inside the relay housing controls a completely separate electrical circuit (using heavier wires throughout), which carries electricity between the motorcycle battery and the louder, more electrically demanding horn. An additional benefit of relays and their separate circuits that most people neglect to consider is, that much like plumbing where inadequate pipe size strangles water flow and results in a poor experience at the faucets and showerheads, the smaller stock wiring meant for stock horns can strangle the flow of electricity to the more-demanding aftermarket horns. Suitably larger wires and switch contacts can allow the horn to perform at its best. Lots of stuff already uses relays on cars and motorcycles. The headlights and the starter motor are the two most common because of their healthy electrical demands. A starter motor might draw five to ten times as much current as an aftermarket horn. You can't directly control that amount of power with the tiny button on the handlebar and the small wires going to and from. That's the proverbial trying to stuff a watermelon through a hypodermic needle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted October 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 8, 2015 ^^^ Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted October 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 8, 2015 Better egg then poop . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 FYI, I've just started using butt splice connectors that have heat shrink type sheathing on it. It's really nice as they are sold as "waterproof" connectors. I did not believe their "waterproof" claims till i used them and found out that the connector sheathing that you heat shrink at the ends of the connectors actually melts/fuses together with the wire insulation and not just over it ( I use a fireplace lighter to shrink the tubes). So no more need to buy heat shrink tubing which is usually so overpriced anyway for what they are I think this product is quite new but you guys might start looking for them in your auto parts stores for you next electrical projects on your bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rectaltronics Posted October 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 8, 2015 FYI, I've just started using butt splice connectors that have heat shrink type sheathing on it. It's really nice as they are sold as "waterproof" connectors. I did not believe their "waterproof" claims till i used them and found out that the connector sheathing that you heat shrink at the ends of the connectors actually melts/fuses together with the wire insulation and not just over it ( I use a fireplace lighter to shrink the tubes). So no more need to buy heat shrink tubing which is usually so overpriced anyway for what they are I think this product is quite new but you guys might start looking for them in your auto parts stores for you next electrical projects on your bikes. Not new at all. The truly suave shop for electrical bits for their bikes at marine supply places. In recent years, some of the auto shops have begun carrying suitable stuff but you have to know what you're looking at. You see the difference with the heat shrink and connectors that use it. The marine grade hookup wire is also different and better for motorcycles. It uses more thinner strands for a give gauge and the strands are tinned copper for resistance to corrosion. Use this stuff when wiring up motorcycle accessories and it'll probably be more reliable and longer lasting than the bike itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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