New Vfr800's Not Selling Very Well

[emil]

We have a mandatory checkup (TÜV) every 2 years for all vehicles here, a colored sticker with year & month is placed on the licence plate if passed. Xenon headlight conversions for example are illegal and you will not get your sticker with them. Still, no strange reflectors..

My guess is that your version of the bike is also sold somewhere where this reflector is explicitly mentioned in the regulations. Honda seems to like to be on the safe side and be be over-compliant, e.g. their 35 kW A2 bikes put out exactly 35 kW, while domestic companies' throttle modifications use up the legal margin of 10%.

Prices for new 800F are rather stable, and given it's a niche bike, I have spotted more of them on the road than I had expected.

[windyrun]

"Still, no strange reflectors"

I think the reflector is a US requirement at least. I say that since the bmw motorcycles have it also as do Triumph and Honda. Theirs are usually rectangular but in same place and surface area. I mention BMW since you could easily look at your local store to see if they also have this side reflector: http://motorcyclesofdulles.com/2015-bmw-s-1000-r-inventory.htm?id=889446&in-stock=1

Just noticed NZCam's post about black ops has a picture of his vfr and it too (in australia) has the large side reflector. Must be europe is the only place that doesn't require side visibility at night :)

[NZCam]

"Still, no strange reflectors"

Just noticed NZCam's post about black ops has a picture of his vfr and it too (in australia) has the large side reflector. Must be europe is the only place that doesn't require side visibility at night :)

Yes, but you can remove them from the forks and get away with it too if it hadn't been for those pesky kids... If you look at the photo of Grum's and my VFRs side by side in the Picture Thread, you'll see his have been "temporarily misplaced."

[ridered]

Cool, Shinigami.

But what about helmets and indicators then?

Don't know about indicators, but helmet law varies by state. California requires helmets. Was just in Hawaii, and no helmets required. I think Florida and Michigan have no helmet law either.

[DriverDave]

Colorado has no helmet law. No headlight or indicators required by law either. But you do have to have tail/brake lights, mirror and horn.

[fatshoutybloke]

I don't know it it's still the case but here in UK you used to be able to have a bike with only a brake light, and your Ministry of Transport annual certificate (MoT) would state 'daylight use only'. No reflectors, no other lights, no indicators, nothing. It's probably not so any more and my rose-tinted glasses are getting foggy at the edges with age, but I'm sure it used to be.

[fink]

You are correct. Daytime MOT its called

[Thumbs]

The daytime MOT is only for bikes not fitted with any other equipment, so you'll have to take a lot of bits off

You can't just tape over them all equipment fitted must work, so a broken indicator will get you a fail, no indicators and you'll pass

The government is talking about making the first MOT at 4 years not 3 as at the moment, both the AA & RAC oppose it as nearly 1/3rd of new cars fail their first MOT on brakes

[fatshoutybloke]

That's what I meant, I should have said 'fitted with only a brake light'. The MoT rule is, if it's there it has to work, generally.

[keny]

Maybe because it isn't new and different enough from the old VTEC 800?

Same engine and frame from 13 years ago.

So why is Kawasaki still selling its KLR650 in North America even its a 25+ year old design? It must be selling as its still awable, whit carburattor and all.

[Knight]

Maybe because it isn't new and different enough from the old VTEC 800?

Same engine and frame from 13 years ago.

So why is Kawasaki still selling its KLR650 in North America even its a 25+ year old design? It must be selling as its still awable, whit carburattor and all.

That is a great question. Allow me to take a stab.

The VFR is purchased for one, great character, and also awesome build quality, excellent balance, and high performance. A bonus is that it holds bags.

The KLR650 is purchased because it is robust, inexpensive, easy and inexpensive to repair, and rides off-road.

The KLR continues to meet all of its goals. Unfortunately, the VFR is partially failing its primary goal of appearing unique among all of the bikes, after too many years of replication and continuing with tenets that no one likes (VTEC).

[fink]

The daytime MOT is only for bikes not fitted with any other equipment, so you'll have to take a lot of bits off

You can't just tape over them all equipment fitted must work, so a broken indicator will get you a fail, no indicators and you'll pass

The government is talking about making the first MOT at 4 years not 3 as at the moment, both the AA & RAC oppose it as nearly 1/3rd of new cars fail their first MOT on brakes

Technically you don't just have to take the bits off you should actually remove the associated wiring. I took FSB post to mean not being fitted with anything other than a brake light.

[AbandonedTrack]

Maybe because it isn't new and different enough from the old VTEC 800?

Same engine and frame from 13 years ago.

So why is Kawasaki still selling its KLR650 in North America even its a 25+ year old design? It must be selling as its still awable, whit carburattor and all.

... and continuing with tenets that no one likes (VTEC).

considering only the gen 8, VTEC has been a non-issue. As many times as I have rolled up to 9,000 RPM, I do not notice the cut over. May be issue down the road for servicing, but I am not there yet and probably not for a while.

[Knight]

Maybe because it isn't new and different enough from the old VTEC 800?

Same engine and frame from 13 years ago.

So why is Kawasaki still selling its KLR650 in North America even its a 25+ year old design? It must be selling as its still awable, whit carburattor and all.

... and continuing with tenets that no one likes (VTEC).

considering only the gen 8, VTEC has been a non-issue. As many times as I have rolled up to 9,000 RPM, I do not notice the cut over. May be issue down the road for servicing, but I am not there yet and probably not for a while.

The original transition problem is not on my radar. All systems have problems and tend to get fixed. My opinion is that VTEC is wasted weight and complexity. There is no reason for it. An EPA special to drop emissions some tiny fraction. The valve train of the 5th generation was simply the best version.

[Rectaltronics]

My opinion is that VTEC is wasted weight and complexity. There is no reason for it. An EPA special to drop emissions some tiny fraction. The valve train of the 5th generation was simply the best version.

Compare the torque curves of the 5th gen to the 6th and 8th gen bikes and get back to us on that.

[Knight]

My opinion is that VTEC is wasted weight and complexity. There is no reason for it. An EPA special to drop emissions some tiny fraction. The valve train of the 5th generation was simply the best version.

Compare the torque curves of the 5th gen to the 6th and 8th gen bikes and get back to us on that.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/67363-5th-gen-engine-in-6th-gen/page-2

Okay here is an example. Incremental power across the board, granted, but negated by its additional weight. So? Sounds almost like a government project to me.

[windyrun]

When did the vfr get 75lb ft of torque (did I read the above link dyno wrong)? The most I've seen on dyno is like 54 http://www.ridermagazine.com/top-stories/2014-honda-vfr800-interceptor-road-test.htm/

I see now---- the dyno chart on link in prior post from Knight has incorrect measures on the torque side. Should be nm (not lb ft)

[Rectaltronics]

When did the vfr get 75lb ft of torque (did I read the above link dyno wrong)? The most I've seen on dyno is like 54 http://www.ridermagazine.com/top-stories/2014-honda-vfr800-interceptor-road-test.htm/

I see now---- they dyno chart on link in prior post from Knigh thas incorrect measures on the torque side. Should be nm (not lb ft)

Or 175 HP. ;-)

Fishy chart.

Just the same, VTEC offers more increases in torque in places where most of us live routinely than what it brings in extra weight. For example, as much as 15% more torque but less than 5% more weight, not including rider. And then when you look at the power curves on the 8th gen, even more usable torque and the curb weight of the DLX model is now around 7 pounds less than a 6th gen.

I get it, Knight. You don't like the added complexity of VTEC, the RPM transition issues, the weight, whatever. But to dispute the benefits (things like EPA compliance notwithstanding, even though it's a crying shame that so many people don't give a flying $#!+ about things like that) is to ignore reality.

[Knight]

(things like EPA compliance notwithstanding, even though it's a crying shame that so many people don't give a flying $#!+ about things like that)

Not that you were commenting on me, however, regarding this issue and VTEC I feel compelled to point some things out. BTW I believe highly in protecting the environment and I never disconnect EPA equipment.

Please note that caring is different from the status quo today of infinite cost and infinite complexity in exchange for a tiny incremental gain in pollution output.

All the extra metal and materials in the more advanced engines had to be dug out out the earth. Also massive amounts of energy and water were used to produce such. The same for car transmissions which have become infinitely complex and expensive, only to gain 1 or 2 mpg.

Much of what is done in the name of "global warming" or "protecting the air" is actually extraordinarily damaging to the environment.

[windyrun]

I don't know about global warming, but I do think the 8th gen looks and rides great. I also loved the sound a 1998 red vfr made as it rode off after stopping next to me at a traffic light yesterday---sounded really cool. Point being -- imagine an 8th gen with a 5th gen motor in it

[fink]

(things like EPA compliance notwithstanding, even though it's a crying shame that so many people don't give a flying $#!+ about things like that)

Not that you were commenting on me, however, regarding this issue and VTEC I feel compelled to point some things out. BTW I believe highly in protecting the environment and I never disconnect EPA equipment.Please note that caring is different from the status quo today of infinite cost and infinite complexity in exchange for a tiny incremental gain in pollution output.All the extra metal and materials in the more advanced engines had to be dug out out the earth. Also massive amounts of energy and water were used to produce such. The same for car transmissions which have become infinitely complex and expensive, only to gain 1 or 2 mpg.Much of what is done in the name of "global warming" or "protecting the air" is actually extraordinarily damaging to the environment.

Whilst I respect and agree to an extent with what you are saying I have to disagree.

If folk got off their fat arses and did a bit of walking then there would be a lot less strain on everything. You go on about stuff like that yet your country refuses to sign the koyoto agreement.

Tell you what why not put the pump prices of fuel up to the same prices as they are everywhere else in the world. How much per gallon is it over there now? It's £4.95 per imperial gallon ( 4.5 litres) here= $7.56

[Knight]

(things like EPA compliance notwithstanding, even though it's a crying shame that so many people don't give a flying $#!+ about things like that)

Not that you were commenting on me, however, regarding this issue and VTEC I feel compelled to point some things out. BTW I believe highly in protecting the environment and I never disconnect EPA equipment.Please note that caring is different from the status quo today of infinite cost and infinite complexity in exchange for a tiny incremental gain in pollution output.All the extra metal and materials in the more advanced engines had to be dug out out the earth. Also massive amounts of energy and water were used to produce such. The same for car transmissions which have become infinitely complex and expensive, only to gain 1 or 2 mpg.Much of what is done in the name of "global warming" or "protecting the air" is actually extraordinarily damaging to the environment.

Whilst I respect and agree to an extent with what you are saying I have to disagree.

If folk got off their fat arses and did a bit of walking then there would be a lot less strain on everything. You go on about stuff like that yet your country refuses to sign the koyoto agreement.

Tell you what why not put the pump prices of fuel up to the same prices as they are everywhere else in the world. How much per gallon is it over there now? It's £4.95 per imperial gallon ( 4.5 litres) here= $7.56

We cannot walk. Our country is gigantic. People here commute 1,2,3 hours daily. It is called "freedom."

We also have the choice of going to the airport and getting molested by the TSA officials or getting in the car. The harsh treatment at the airport has pushed many of us back to smelly vehicles. I drove on my last vacation. I actually hate the car as it makes me stomach sick. However, transportation is freedom. Anyone artificially preventing the use of the car, believe me, is not doing so for the environment. It is done to keep people immobile for political control.

Civilizations have always revolted over punitive taxation. It is beyond me why modern society ignores this. You are giving your freedom away by artificially inflating the price of energy.If your area, or country is small enough where you do not truly need low-cost energy, that is good. But that is a small slice of the free world. Society has changed, it sees no borders or boundaries, and that is a good thing.

Next, alternatives such as electric cars are right around the corner. Considering the current technology as "permanent" or "fatal" is myopic. People throughout history who have thought of the current technology as the final solution, and fatal to something like our health, have always been proven wrong. The counter-culture, the protests against current technology historically are on the wrong side. It seems people promote taxation, regulation, international protocols, because it makes them feel better, and they simply cannot see the bigger picture.

These politicians have spent decades on taxation and control of our gas powered vehicles. If they spent all of these efforts on alternatives, we would have switched to something else already. It is quite clear that our politicians see "the environment" as a ticket to having a permanent job.

It is our government that created the "crash star rating." The five star rating promotes promotes the building of 5,000 lb vehicles, which many people drive around in solo. The US government created the SUV craze. Now you want our government to tax gasoline more in the name of Mother Nature?

The answers to your question are infinite. It boils down to freedom and also the fact that people and governments claiming to want to save the earth are the same ones actually destroying it. (See Al Gore.) So when you tell me we should tax our fuel, I respond, try to imagine more. Complete disruption, big solutions, which are right on the horizon. Do not be so fatalistic.

[ridered]

Back to bikes. Enough of the politics. Yeesh.

Test rode the 8th gen yesterday. It was a really nice new version on the 5th gen. A little different character to the engine, but not bad. Vtec transition was not too noticeable, but was there. Mine has a bigger flat spot at 4500 RPM. I loved all the modern features, and the wind protection was better. Felt very familiar, but in a new and shiny way. Felt lighter and more nimble. Love the modern dash. Fueling is better, but not perfect.

My 2 big complaints are:

1. Make it a 1000cc, or at least a 900. It would be a superb bike with 150hp or so.

2. Brakes need to be better. After riding a 7th gen, I was expecting that level of performance from modern radial mounted brakes. I kinda missed the linked brakes, and want the stopping power of the 7th gen.

A third minor complaint of Honda in general. Add cruise control. BMW puts cruise on their super bike. Honda should offer it on anything that might be used for touring. It was also missing from the Africa Twin (really cool bike) 3 hours of super slab this weekend made the point it needs cruise.

I would buy one, and be happy I'm sure, but I think the 1200 spoiled me. I really want the extra power and better brakes. Just wish it was in the lighter package.

[emil]

I mention BMW since you could easily look at your local store to see if they also have this side reflector: http://motorcyclesofdulles.com/2015-bmw-s-1000-r-inventory.htm?id=889446&in-stock=1

Local S1000Rs don't have that side reflector. And neither Japanese models nor Triumph's.

Concerning the engine, "drop the vtec and give us 900-1000 ccm" is an old request, I think I've read it already in Motorrad magazine's review of the RC46 II. They also wrote it's not possible without a completely new engine design.

[vinjah]

I would buy one, and be happy I'm sure, but I think the 1200 spoiled me. I really want the extra power and better brakes. Just wish it was in the lighter package.

Thanks for the perspective. I'm finding it difficult to line up a test ride at local Bay Area (SF) locations.

I'm empathetic to your comment above, and as a result have been afflicted with a condition known as, "Holy shit I want a KTM Super Duke GT-itis". At 2x the cost of an 8th gen VFR, it would be a tough battle for my wallet, and marriage.