Mattie660 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Fireblade is a fine bike but that VFR of yours... throttle pinned for just 80 (or even 100) MPH? Unless you weigh 600 lbs something tells me you got a lemon. Or you're exaggerating just a smidgen. If I remember correctly the V-Tec kicks in at 7,500 RPM and I do not consider this to be within the cruising rev range. I ventured into this rev range at times when accelerating, but it is not where I want to spend a lot of time. If I remember then, my dash across France and Holland took 2 days there, and 2 days back - all day with the throttle open and the engine running at 6-6,500 RPM. This is only 1-1,500 RPM off what I consider the maximum rev range before you move in to the noisy V-Tec rev range. That is what I mean by pinned - almost up against the cruising rev limit. Also carrying two full panniers, and a roll bag - all the stuff for a two week camping holiday. The bike itself was not I lemon. I gave it a blast on a German Autobahn, on the way back from Austria, and saw the 200 kmh (125 mph) appear on the dash, before easing off, but that was a brief excursion (no speed limits on certain sections of German Autobahns). I have nothing against the lovely VFR, but I think there is a reason that all the trans-continental tourers, for the European market, seem to be in the 1,000-1,600 cc engine size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I fully respect your findings as you seem to have a ton of experience on the bike and i can hardly fault your reasoning as it is your own but... My sixth gen will EASILY do 135. That's the fastest ive ever gone and only because a truck was tailgating me. I had absolutely no problem pulling away from said truck. I also live in Florida where everyone drives like an asshole and i am routinely keeping up with traffic at 85-90 MPH. I am nowhere near the vtec transition and the bike has more than enough pep to pull away from anything it might need to pull away from for safety reasons. Short of racing other bikes, i am way faster than most things on the road. Did they really change the eight gen's that much as your description of the bike made it out to sound like a bit of a weenie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rectaltronics Posted October 2, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 2, 2015 Fireblade is a fine bike but that VFR of yours... throttle pinned for just 80 (or even 100) MPH? Unless you weigh 600 lbs something tells me you got a lemon. Or you're exaggerating just a smidgen. If I remember correctly the V-Tec kicks in at 7,500 RPM and I do not consider this to be within the cruising rev range. I ventured into this rev range at times when accelerating, but it is not where I want to spend a lot of time. If I remember then, my dash across France and Holland took 2 days there, and 2 days back - all day with the throttle open and the engine running at 6-6,500 RPM. This is only 1-1,500 RPM off what I consider the maximum rev range before you move in to the noisy V-Tec rev range. That is what I mean by pinned - almost up against the cruising rev limit. Also carrying two full panniers, and a roll bag - all the stuff for a two week camping holiday. The bike itself was not I lemon. I gave it a blast on a German Autobahn, on the way back from Austria, and saw the 200 kmh (125 mph) appear on the dash, before easing off, but that was a brief excursion (no speed limits on certain sections of German Autobahns). I have nothing against the lovely VFR, but I think there is a reason that all the trans-continental tourers, for the European market, seem to be in the 1,000-1,600 cc engine size. Ah, OK, so now that we have the whole "pinned" thing explained... VTEC kicks in around 6800 RPM on these bikes. When I wrote my review of this bike I noticed 55 MPH was about 4000 RPM. So my math sez 90 MPH should have been under 6600 RPM in 6th, which is still a little bit shy of where things get noisier. If you don't care for how the engine sounds when you hit 95, so be it. I don't entirely disagree. I tend to keep the RPMs down too. Though personally, at the speeds where the VTEC would kick in (in 6th) I seem to notice the wind roar at least as much as the engine noise. Some years back I rode cross-country on a Yamaha RZ-350 and aside of the fact that it gobbled down 2-stroke oil at an astronomical rate at 3-digit throttle settings, I had no complaints about its size or power, except that maybe I had to use a who lot of throttle to maintain 85 while climbing a steep mountain road with upwards of 370 lbs of bodies, gear and luggage. If other folks think they need 1000+ ccs that's fine too. To each their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattie660 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 ^^^ And not forgetting that the indicated 90 mph is not the actual. My Tomtom Sat Nav seemed to show about a 6 mph difference between speedo indicated and Tomtom Sat Nav indicated. And in France I believe you do not get booked for the first 5 kmh ( 3 mph) over the speed limit on the motorway. So without even really breaking the law you could be riding legally at indicated 90 mph, for as long as you like and not just a quick 2 minute blast up the road. I take your point about the small bike sizes. I rode to the Isle of Man TT on a Honda CB250 RS, with all the camping gear, and thought it was great, and now cannot manage with a beautiful VFR 800 ! Life is in some way about what you want, rather than what you need. And you construct arguments to support what you want, as a need. A couple of other things that happened to support this "need" choice: Being overtaken by a small pack of sports bikes on the motorway, on the way to the race circuit - they roll past effortlessly Being overtaken on the same trip by a Kawasaki ZZR/GTR being ridden two up and with luggage - they disappear effortlessly into the distance Being overtaken by a ZZR, that appeared on my tail like it had dropped out of Hyper-Space. It just appeared, stayed with me for a bit and was gone ! Now I have a CBR 1000 RR Fireblade, and all happy again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rectaltronics Posted October 3, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 3, 2015 Weird about your speedometer. The speedo on my 8th Gen is within 1 MPH of what my Garmin Zumo says, right into three-digit speeds. And no tangible difference in the speedo accuracy going from the stock rubber to the PR4s. Many people have reported similarly excellent accuracy from the 2014 bikes' speedos. Now whatcha' gonna "need" when the H2 Owners Club effortlessly blasts past your 'Blade on the way to the circuit? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinigami Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I live in a place with 80 mph speed limits (perhaps the only ones in the USA) and have yet to feel like I don't have enough under the throttle, but then again I don't mind winding it out. My speedo is pretty much dead on up to and including 140 mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01ragtop Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 My brother rides a ZZR1200, and we have no trouble touring together. Granted it's faster than the VFR, but it it isn't noticeable until way over go to jail speeds and only then in a straight line. The vfr handles the twisty stuff better too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattie660 Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Weird about your speedometer. The speedo on my 8th Gen is within 1 MPH of what my Garmin Zumo says, right into three-digit speeds. And no tangible difference in the speedo accuracy going from the stock rubber to the PR4s. Many people have reported similarly excellent accuracy from the 2014 bikes' speedos. Now whatcha' gonna "need" when the H2 Owners Club effortlessly blasts past your 'Blade on the way to the circuit? ;-) I am having to do this from memory, having sold the bike. The last long trip with it was back in July and I have done two trips with the CBR since then. I think you maybe right though about the speedo accuracy as I remember being impressed that it was accurate. I have noticed that the CBR is a backward step in this respect. If the H2 Owners come past me then that is fine, it will not be because the bike I am riding is not up to it. Honda VFR800 or Honda CBR1000 Fireblade ? I cannot for a moment think I have made the wrong choice Repsol station by 660 Mattie, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 My speedo is about 10KpH out at 110KpH, indicates 120 on speedo with a Dunlop roadsmart 2 rear, according to Tom Tom. I understand your choice with the 1000RR, they are a great bike. I had one (a 2011 model) before the gen 8 and sold it for the opposite reason to you. Here we have very low by comparison to Europe speed limits and we also have a draconian enforcement regime always ready to ruin your day. I do miss the fully adjustable suspension of the fireblade, and it would have made the 8th gen VFR a whole lot better with the fireblades front forks, we already have the front brakes. I take your point that you dont want to be touring all day in the vtec range, and I guess if you can handle the ergos of the fireblade it would be a reasonable tourer although I think it is more at home on a twisty road. What tyres do you run on a fireblade for touring? Mine used to eat rear tyres, usually Q2s or Q3s. I still run Q3s on the VFR, love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrcolin Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I used to have a CBR1000RR and it's a great bike especially for track riding, but I found it to be not practical for my needs and uncomfortable. I commute about 40 miles to work and often ride. I guess I'm getting old but don't feel the need to go 150+ mph anymore. VFR handles good, decent fuel mileage, and very comfortable. Also the insurance is about a third of CBR1000rr cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emil Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (Euro) Honda speedos are about 6% off. I often ride at high speeds and have seen 240 km/h on the speedo.. my helmet then starts to vibrate and I have trouble observing the road. The gearing is indeed too short for such speeds. As I already wrote here, maximum engine output in 6th gear is at 225 km/h, the remaining 17 up to the specified top speed are in the "margin" rev range. Even at Autobahn sections limited to 130 km/h (+the 20 km/h we like to add on top), it's easily possible to enter the 4 valves range. So I have been thinking about getting a sprocket with 1 more cog and a speedohealer. It would increase fuel economy and top speed, but decrease acceleration in most speed ranges, and require slipping the clutch more often at very low speeds. It would be optimal to only make 6th longer.. It's annoying foreign bikes are not properly geared for high speeds, with the exception of supersports models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattie660 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 You see you guys have already owned a CBR, but until now I hadn't - so it was a Stick or Twist moment with the VFR - stick with it and put 60,000 miles on it maybe even 100,000 over ten years - the bike is capable of it. Or Twist, while I can get a good price for it. If I had kept it, then I might never have had a CBR. So traded it in, got a good deal, it sold quickly. And now see what the CBR is all about. The sensible option probably would have been to keep the VFR, but hey ! The CBR still has the Dunlop Qualifier II original equipment fittings, but I can see what you mean about them wearing fast. I have done about 3,600 to date and can tell they are not going to last that long. Will probably stick with Dunlops of one sort or another, even after these have worn out. Interesting comments, emil and good luck with the modification. I have found it possible to lay on the tank to get out of the airflow, but really only when there is not much traffic such as sections of French Peage motorways, but have to remain more upright in the airflow, to stay aware at other times. Maybe this is why big tourers are so upright, not just for comfort (I do not mind crouching behind a screen) but so that you can still have good visibility all around while travelling at a good speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rectaltronics Posted October 6, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 6, 2015 (Euro) Honda speedos are about 6% off. I often ride at high speeds and have seen 240 km/h on the speedo.. my helmet then starts to vibrate and I have trouble observing the road. The gearing is indeed too short for such speeds. As I already wrote here, maximum engine output in 6th gear is at 225 km/h, the remaining 17 up to the specified top speed are in the "margin" rev range. Even at Autobahn sections limited to 130 km/h (+the 20 km/h we like to add on top), it's easily possible to enter the 4 valves range. So I have been thinking about getting a sprocket with 1 more cog and a speedohealer. It would increase fuel economy and top speed, but decrease acceleration in most speed ranges, and require slipping the clutch more often at very low speeds. It would be optimal to only make 6th longer.. It's annoying foreign bikes are not properly geared for high speeds, with the exception of supersports models. Interesting claim about the Euro speedos. Anyone else see this personally on an 8th gen? Are the part numbers for the computer or gauges different from US spec? I'm thinking if you're doing those speeds a lot then you do need more bike, no matter the gearing or whinging about VTEC RPMs. Funny thing is, in light of the complaints here that the gearing is too short, that the journos complain it's too tall (I think because you can't hit top speed in 6th?). Can't make everyone happy apparently. BTW I wonder whether the change you perceive in the noise is from the 4-valve mode itself or just the airbox volume change, or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtourer Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 The speedos in EU are "all" +5-6-7%, not only bike, but cars as well. All my bikes and the ones I test rode were like this. Cars ( all VAG, BMW, MB, Ford) have the same "optimistic" speedos. All EU is polluted with speed cameras, average speed cameras, mobile (mounted on cars or on the side of the road), so I guess car/bike vendors trying spare us some cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rectaltronics Posted October 6, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 6, 2015 The speedos in EU are "all" +5-6-7%, not only bike, but cars as well. All my bikes and the ones I test rode were like this. Cars ( all VAG, BMW, MB, Ford) have the same "optimistic" speedos. All EU is polluted with speed cameras, average speed cameras, mobile (mounted on cars or on the side of the road), so I guess car/bike vendors trying spare us some cash. Generous speedos are typical not just of Yurp but pretty much everywhere. Which is why I was surprised when the journos said the 8th gen speedo was pretty much spot-on. And why I was equally surprised to be able to confirm it for myself against GPS (and laser too, BTW, LOL). And heard similar results from many 8th gen owners in this forum as well. Over the decades many here have surmised it was more a matter of liability on the manufacturers than them giving a rat's behind what our own inability to manage our throttles might cost us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timm Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Rules regarding the error a speedometer may show differs from different regions. In EU it may never show too little (i.e. making you drive too fast unintentionally). Showing some percent too much is on the other hand ok. This is regardless of tyre wear etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedometer#Error Vehicle manufacturers knows all this of course and design the meters thereafter ... i.e. show a bit too much by bias +- some error that may occour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rectaltronics Posted October 7, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 7, 2015 Rules regarding the error a speedometer may show differs from different regions. In EU it may never show too little (i.e. making you drive too fast unintentionally). Showing some percent too much is on the other hand ok. This is regardless of tyre wear etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedometer#Error Vehicle manufacturers knows all this of course and design the meters thereafter ... i.e. show a bit too much by bias +- some error that may occour. Interesting read, thanks. There's a Wiki page for damn near everything! :) It doesn't look like the EU rules would prohibit a speedo from being essentially accurate, such as mine which looks like about 1% on the high side. Versus my Accord which is 5%-6% high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timm Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 My car (Seat) differs around 10% depending if I have on the summer tyres or snow tyres. Due to the coming winter season it is soon time to re-think here when approaching a speed camera. But it has never showed to little... I noticed the Vfr was more accurate, at least with new tyres on. Now my tyres are a bit worn and indicated speed versus GPS differs more. Around 6% high, last time i checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emil Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'm pretty certain many vehicles have a more accurate speedo for the US market. The "optimism" is programmed. On my Audi, it starts at a fixed amount of 3 km/h, and reaches 10% above 200 km/h. There is clearly a function controlling this, not some random inaccuracy. I can check the real measured speed through a secret key combination enabling readout of ECU diagnostic channels in the AC display (!). They disabled that on later models, unfortunately. About the VFR's gears, check out the diagram here: http://www.motorradonline.de/einzeltest/honda-vfr-800-f-im-top-test-motorrad-messungen/562746?seite=3 You can see you are going above the point of maximum engine output (10100 rpm) at about 225 km/h. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinigami Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Obviously this is programmed in, or there would be a concurrent odometer error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer fink Posted October 9, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm pretty sure I posted up speedo readings to gps on here a while ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honda1964 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 The interesting thing about this thread is the common loyalty of so many VFR owners of so many different generations holding onto their machines. In difficult times Honda have kept the door open for a whole new generation of owners to the VFR brand to do the same. This new gen 8 could sell on looks alone but underneath the skin is still the same tried and trusted platform with enhancements. The 750/800 cc has always been seen as the perfect balance of the all rounder but a compromise to all out power and all out torque. Taking it out of that cc range possibly changes the whole point of the bike. Having owned the VFR 1200 and recent CBR1000R it would have been easy to have taken my test drive of the new VFR and been disappointment with its power and torgue up against those bikes but again it comes down to the compromise of knowing that you have bike with enough power for how you will use it in the real world, granted something that you might need to put a bit more input into but that's not necessary a negative. If you are more a two up tourer person then you would no doubt consider a bigger bike like the 1200, if you want the fastest handling sports machine then you would probably go for a bike like the blade. But when you have done that and been there you can start to look at things differently, insurance costs, running costs, tank range and even mpg as well as comfort in certain circumstances. Every day use and all year riding can soon make you respect or hate certain bikes. You can soon discover the other side of the glitz and glamour is not so attractive. I can only compare the new machine to the A9 VTEC and say that I noticed an improvement and they have enhanced the model. Maybe not enough to make current gens owners move on but then they have this long term loyalty with their machine because of its reliability and quality and I agree with a formula that has worked for them for many years. But to anyone new or anyone returning to the VFR there is no doubt that it is still an excellent product, still an excellent all rounder that has been slightly enhanced in a positive way. The VFR 3/4 weight you all love is still here, ready to be bought brand new, ready to provide 100,000 miles or more of memories all over again. It's expensive but not that much more than some of the competition but I don't think they ever quite match the Honda for fit and finish and longevity. I personally applaud Honda for keeping this option in the range for sticking with some that is unique and that they believe in. Of course I am biased buying a new one but i hope I end up like many of you current owners who after a decade or two I will still have the bike in my garage doing what I will take for granted. Safe riding all Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dustin Posted October 11, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2015 against a strong headwind, in 5 1/2 hours - that is what the VFR 800 would have struggled with.I have a 6th gen and not the 8th you had but I find this puzzling. I have spent hours and hours gliding across the vast expanses of the American west and am always pleasantly surprised how easily the VFR can run at high speeds. In July I spent a particularly generous stretch of time in Nevada at a good rate, happily sitting upright and just holding the bike steady at partial throttle, that lovely V4 as smooth as double cream. I find the bike really only shows its lack of ponies past 210 kph or with a passenger. I'm certain a bigger, more powerful bike would be a pleasure for long distances at high speeds but I'm always amazed how well 100 hp can push you along well past what you 'should' be doing :) $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattie660 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 ^^ Dustin^^ It sounds great riding in the US, riding across endless expanses of the US West - but I think continental European riding is different - not better or worse, but different. For continental touring bigger motors seem to be the best option, and my bikes have got progressively bigger over the years. This is what it is all about - loading some camping gear and heading off to France and beyond. And this is what the bike looks like, and will have to cope with German Autobahns, on the way to Austria, and on the way up to Scandinavia, across Holland and France, the Alps and the Pyrennes. You may also want to ride to a race meeting in France or Holland, or Germany, over a long weekend. So you will want to get a move on to get there and back in good time - this is the sort of thing I want to be doing. This is normal luggage for a camping trip. Personally, for what I am doing, and however good the VFR is, it is not in the same league as this - the CBR would sit between these two, which is where I am at ! - and the direction I seem to be heading in :) I do not want to talk the Viffer down, and I will always speak highly of it, but my motorcycling life was not going to stop there :-) Ride safe y'all :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer windyrun Posted October 11, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2015 "I do not want to talk the Viffer down, and I will always speak highly of it, but my motorcycling life was not going to stop there :-)" I think I understand your perspective and am in no way questioning your decision; just curious about the capabilities of touring on a cbr1000 (since I also have a "sport" bike and am considering viffer or s1000r as a touring option) so I ask: can you post a picture of the blade with all that gear on it? I'd love to see whats possible. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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