Member Contributer mello dude Posted August 9, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted August 9, 2013 If you go with the roller bearings you don't need the castle nut, the torque values are very small. If you use OEM bearings the special nut & torque wrench could be helpful. I should have mentioned this in my first post, I already have the allballs tapered bearings. I am so glad you mentioned this! Seems odd to me though. I bet it will make sense when I see it. I've always had to go back and re-tighten the bearings after a couple hundred miles or so, just to snug them up. With tapered bearings it's almost a feel thing with getting them tight but not too tight. Veefer covered this in one of his install threads. Trying to understand - Which one did you delete? Theres the bottom castle nut against the dust shield, then the lock washer, then the top lock nut or castle nut. Got Veefers thread? Sorry, didn't mean you can delete one of the nuts, just that you don't need the castle socket if you're installing tapered bearings. Thanks for clarifying on that. So what tool did you use to set the "torque" on the lower castle nut? Large vise grip? Pipe wrench? Clevis wrench? Do you set it torquing it to get a certain pounds pull on one of the lower triple by one of the fork tube clamps? May as well ask too on what you used to break the lower castle nut loose. Thxz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted August 9, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted August 9, 2013 I used a hammer and punch to loosen the castle nut, and the same thing to tighten things back up. It isn't extremely tight so it doesn't take a huge amount of effort to get it loose. Although it takes a very light touch when you tighten things back up as the torque is very small to set the resistance on the tapered roller bearings as opposed to regular ball bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted August 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted August 12, 2013 If you look through another semi-recent thread about steering head bearings, think BLS gave his preference on how tight to get the castle nuts. It wasn't a torque value based, but more of how the steering turned from full lock to full lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted August 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted August 12, 2013 If you look through another semi-recent thread about steering head bearings, think BLS gave his preference on how tight to get the castle nuts. It wasn't a torque value based, but more of how the steering turned from full lock to full lock. Thanks for the tip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted August 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted August 12, 2013 +1 that you should not follow service manual torque specs if you go with the tapered roller bearings. Believe there is a story here of someone who cracked the steering head by doing that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 just to clear things up.. The two notched nuts, which I think you are referring to as castle nuts, do not require much torque, suffice to finger tighten then drive the lower one maybe a quarter turn or half turn to seat things, then back it off and finger tighten again and drive it a quarter turn on, checking how the front end turns from full lock to full lock.. The second notched nut is to lock the first, and notches must line up in order to bend the security tabs into place. Now, The topmost nut of all, number 19 in the microfiche exploded-view drawing you posted, that sucker DOES go on real tight and you should tighten it to the workshop manual specs.. iirc, somewhere between 35-50 Nm. Tap the old races out with any long metal bar you can find, like maybe a socket wrench extension piece or whatever reaches all the way through. Any old bearing grease will do. If you notice a clacking under hard and sharp braking, you underdid it when tightening the notched nuts. Very often it is necessary to retighten the bearings after a couple of hundred km.. If you notice a side to side weaving tendency at low speeds, you have overtightened the bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 +1 that you should not follow service manual torque specs if you go with the tapered roller bearings. Believe there is a story here of someone who cracked the steering head by doing that... That was Ralph from South Africa. He was following an old procedure for STEEL framed bikes where you would torque the head bearings to a very high value to seat them, something like 50 ft/lbs, then loosen and torque to the (lower) specified value. FSM states 18 ft/lbs (for ball type bearings), and that is what I use to seat mine. Torque, turn front end side to side, retorque, turn front end side to side, etc. Then, I back off the nut and torque to 5 ftlbs for the tapered rollers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer auggius Posted August 13, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2013 You should see the socket someone on Sport-Touring.net made: http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php?topic=38083.msg1863806#msg1863806 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted August 13, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2013 Thanks for correcting me on that Veefer...I don't know what compelled me to spread a rumor that I really didn't know the details about... I just know that when Fred helped me with mine, we did not use service manual specs for torque. The roller type bearings would be too tight if we did... P.S. Fred had a special bearing seating tool that was like a vise that pressed in the bearings, so no need to use the steering head nut to seat the bearings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted August 13, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2013 You should see the socket someone on Sport-Touring.net made: http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php?topic=38083.msg1863806#msg1863806 That's a really nice steering stem driver. Not sure about making it out of aluminum though, just too soft to handle any damage. That axle nut out of aluminum isn't going to last. I already did that once, and it took an hour to get it off my wrench and out of the part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marriedman Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 OK, now I am a little bit confused on the torque setting for the tapered bearings. Same torque as OEM or 18 ft/lbs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted August 13, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2013 OK, now I am a little bit confused on the torque setting for the tapered bearings. Same torque as OEM or 18 ft/lbs? Veefer said he used 18 ft/lbs to seat the bearings, then backed off and used 5 ft/lbs. At least that's what I'm reading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 OK, now I am a little bit confused on the torque setting for the tapered bearings. Same torque as OEM or 18 ft/lbs? Veefer said he used 18 ft/lbs to seat the bearings, then backed off and used 5 ft/lbs. At least that's what I'm reading... Zackery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marriedman Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Ah! That makes more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 If you use the 18 ft/lbs with the tapered rollers and ride like that, you will have a pronounced low speed weave. Bike will wander like a drunken sailor. That is the final spec for the OEM round rollers, so it's safe to use to initially seat the tapered versions. Turn the bearings through their arc of rotation at 18 pounds, then re torque to 18, turn the bearings, repeat as needed until they don't tighten anymore (at 18) then back off and re torque to 5ft/lbs. This is the lower castle nut we are speaking of. The upper castle nut is held in place only by the locking tab, then the upper triple goes on and the topmost hex nut secures that and locks down the two castle nuts below due to its clamping force. Check the procedure in the FSM if you're not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmythecop Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 snug. Tight enough so there is no slop and the very slightest or no drag. More importantly, revisit the nut after 500 or so miles as they usually loosen up and if they are loose, they will go bad sooner. If 1 is finger tight and 10 is snap off the bolt head tight, its about a 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 snug. Tight enough so there is no slop and the very slightest or no drag. More importantly, revisit the nut after 500 or so miles as they usually loosen up and if they are loose, they will go bad sooner. If 1 is finger tight and 10 is snap off the bolt head tight, its about a 4. Ace!! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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