douglasthecook Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Ok, so in April at the track day at Spa-Francorchamps, my VFR fried the original ECU from late 1995. I replaced it with one from eBay, and now that one is fried as well. Does anyine here have any ideas as to what would be killing ECU's on my VFR? This is an issue that I'd really like to sort out, as I don't want to keep throwing ECU's at her, just for her to eat them on a regular basis. Any ideas would be helpful, as I have my own theories, but am not sure how sound they are. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted August 13, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2012 your bike is not grounded properly...... pm sent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 How is your charging voltage? Do you have a permanent voltmeter installed on the bike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasthecook Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 I do not have a volt meter installed on my bike, but haven't had any issues with the battery that I'm aware of, as it's only 1 year old. I'll look around for a bad ground in my wiring harness, but that's going to take time to find all the ground points. I know of a few, but not all. As far as the link goes, I already have the upgraded R/R on my VFR, as well as Tightwads upgraded R/R wiring harness installed. So what exactly am I supposed to do with my ECU? I'm not very electrical savvy, and am much better with nuts and botls, and fabricating parts to fit, than I am with electricity. I'll probably give this a shot with my R/R, as it can't hurt, but still need turn by turn directions on what to do with the ECU, thanks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 13, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2012 Well technically it's not an ECU but an ignition computer with a programmed timing and dwell map. Can bad ground fry these? I would have thought they'd mostly be damaged by issues with the coil packs. Something to do with flyback voltage spikes for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasthecook Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 To me, a bad ground doesn't necessarily make sense, but again, I'm not an electrical wiz, so I don't really know. As far as the coils go, wouldn't there be some other indication of those going bad, besides killing off ECU's, but again, I'm really grasping at straws here, and this is why I'm asking for help, as I don't really have a clue!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kox Posted August 13, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2012 I have a spare that I bought for my now crashed 4th gen. Let me know if you want it. It will cost you freight from Denmark only. It is originally from a UK bike with 40000miles if that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted August 13, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2012 VFRD to the rescue............ magic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasthecook Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 I have a spare that I bought for my now crashed 4th gen. Let me know if you want it. It will cost you freight from Denmark only. It is originally from a UK bike with 40000miles if that matters. I'll take it!!! My address is below, and please let me know how much I owe you, and how to get the funds to you. Thanks!!! Douglas Cook PSC 9 Box 4586 APO AE 09123 Flugplatz Spangdahlem 54529 Spangdahlem Germany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keny Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Doug, I wounder if its just bad luck as the one from e-bay fired, can be from a high milage bike. But I think the first one might has damaged from the fact your rear coils was cocked by your exhaust during the Mugello trip. Might also be the coils has some damage you cant se by eye or mesurable as coils are cold, just pops up as they get warm? Where is the ECU located on a 4th gen? just ounder if changes to your bike might do the ECU rund hotter than it should? just my 2 cent...................... But good news your close to get a working one. Great that VFRD is the place to find a fast rescue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasthecook Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 I was also wondering if the coils are part of the problem. I may install the hayabusa coils, but don't really want to fry another ECU, so I'm on the fence about that. I might also get a different set of VFR coils, and swap out the ones I have. We'll see what happens I guess. I'm going to see if I can re-mount the ECU to a better location as well, but it all depends on how much slack I have in the wiring harness. Fortunately VFRD has been very helpful!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kox Posted August 14, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 14, 2012 I have a spare that I bought for my now crashed 4th gen. Let me know if you want it. It will cost you freight from Denmark only. It is originally from a UK bike with 40000miles if that matters. I'll take it!!! My address is below, and please let me know how much I owe you, and how to get the funds to you. Thanks!!! Douglas Cook PSC 9 Box 4586 APO AE 09123 Flugplatz Spangdahlem 54529 Spangdahlem Germany I'm on vacation now - will ship early next week. I also have a spare harness that as far as I remember I only took the light sockets off. Do you want that as well? It will add weight which will increase the freight costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kox Posted August 14, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 14, 2012 Actually, from August 28th to August 31th I'm staying in a B&B in Vielsalm, Belgium. If you like you can pick it up there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasthecook Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Actually, from August 28th to August 31th I'm staying in a B&B in Vielsalm, Belgium. If you like you can pick it up there? I'll take the harness as well, if you don't need or want it, and picking it up in Belgium shouldn't be a problem, as Vielsalm is about an hour away from Spangdahelm. It'll have to be in the evening, unless I can manage to escapre from work early. Let me know what date, and time works best for you. Thanks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasthecook Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 This is a little better explanation of what's happening, and what's not happening... Basically what happens is when I turn the key on, and depress the start button, the bike tries to fire, but won't start. fuel and air is good, not getting any spark to the plugs. The manual has me check the side stand switch, the pulse generator, and a few other things finally getting it down to the ECU. Just like last time, the bike started running rough, like it was mis-firing really bad, on 3 cylinders, then it just wouldn't start. I may have a bad coil, and that could be killing the ECU, but I'm not 100% sure about that, as there isn't a way that I can check my coils out now, as they're not getting a signal to fire from the ECU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted August 15, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2012 Until you've swapped your "bad" ECUs into another 4th-gen (and which causes it to experience the same symptoms) I would not suspect that the ECUs have been fried. I probably wouldn't want to risk frying another ECU (even a known working one) in your bike until you do that, but I cannot see any risk to someone else's bike by trying your "bad" ECUs. ECUs just don't normally fail. Good luck. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasthecook Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Until you've swapped your "bad" ECUs into another 4th-gen (and which causes it to experience the same symptoms) I would not suspect that the ECUs have been fried. I probably wouldn't want to risk frying another ECU (even a known working one) in your bike until you do that, but I cannot see any risk to someone else's bike by trying your "bad" ECUs. ECUs just don't normally fail. Good luck. Ciao, Unfortuantely as much as I'd like to do that, my VFR is the only one around in my area. The first time that this happened, Leon was kind enough to send me his working ECU, and I installed it. My VFR fired right up, and ran just fine. I only let it run for a minute or so, as to not fry his ECU. I'm going to look at relocating the ECU from where it sits currently, as well as replacing the coils, as those might be one of the reasons that the ECU is getting fried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kox Posted August 15, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2012 Actually, from August 28th to August 31th I'm staying in a B&B in Vielsalm, Belgium. If you like you can pick it up there? I'll take the harness as well, if you don't need or want it, and picking it up in Belgium shouldn't be a problem, as Vielsalm is about an hour away from Spangdahelm. It'll have to be in the evening, unless I can manage to escapre from work early. Let me know what date, and time works best for you. Thanks!!! PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 as there isn't a way that I can check my coils out now, as they're not getting a signal to fire from the ECU. The only way to measure the signal is with a oscilloscope and I don't think you have one of those. Have you measured the primary coil resistance of all four coils? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasthecook Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 as there isn't a way that I can check my coils out now, as they're not getting a signal to fire from the ECU. The only way to measure the signal is with a oscilloscope and I don't think you have one of those. Have you measured the primary coil resistance of all four coils? I have not had a chance to do that yet. That was going to be my next step, but I just haven't had the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swas Posted August 16, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 16, 2012 Too high a voltage is not good for ECU's. Run a check on the charging voltages whilst you have the multimeter out. A new battery will survive high charging volts much better than sensitive devices like ECU's. If the bike charging system is noisy, ie spikes on the 12Vdc system, or really high volts, you are looking at these being introduced to the ECU's supply and possibly "frying" it. I am no expert on the actual contents of an ECU, which considering the electrical problems espoused in these pages are reasonably robust pieces of electronics (thank goodness for that). Most switching devices (which an ECU does in response to it's multiple inputs and application of Honda built in buggery factors) just earth the coil of whatever it is they are controlling. For damaging spikes to be introduced to the ECU from this action I would suspect some sort of grounding problems. When my various RR failures come around it is the stuck around 17+Vdc that worries me most in comparo to low volts which just leaves the battery uncharged. Perplexing problem, good luck. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasthecook Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Too high a voltage is not good for ECU's. Run a check on the charging voltages whilst you have the multimeter out. A new battery will survive high charging volts much better than sensitive devices like ECU's. If the bike charging system is noisy, ie spikes on the 12Vdc system, or really high volts, you are looking at these being introduced to the ECU's supply and possibly "frying" it. I am no expert on the actual contents of an ECU, which considering the electrical problems espoused in these pages are reasonably robust pieces of electronics (thank goodness for that). Most switching devices (which an ECU does in response to it's multiple inputs and application of Honda built in buggery factors) just earth the coil of whatever it is they are controlling. For damaging spikes to be introduced to the ECU from this action I would suspect some sort of grounding problems. When my various RR failures come around it is the stuck around 17+Vdc that worries me most in comparo to low volts which just leaves the battery uncharged. Perplexing problem, good luck. Mike I'll try that once I get my bike running again. Who knows, maybe I'll add a voltmeter, we'll see!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamarocket630 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Coil impedence out of spec, High charging system voltage and volt drop across the grounds are the things you need to check. This is a great page that explains how and why to perform a loaded voltage drop test (four your grounds) http://www.crookedriverwriter.com/index.php?/Automotive-Topics/voltage-drop-testing.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Doug, can you please remove your RC tail bodywork and take/post pictures of your setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasthecook Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Will do Doug, can you please remove your RC tail bodywork and take/post pictures of your setup? Will do!!! I'll take the pics tonight, and post tomorrow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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