wera803 Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Okay, so I have a MOTY battery in my 2006 GSXR track/street bike. I ride it every couple of weeks to work just to keep things charged/lubed/etc. The last time I rode it, I got off, turned the key all the way to lock the forks and just walked away. When I came back at the end of the day I turned the key on and there was nothing. No dash, no lights, no nothing. I forgot the Suzuki's have a "Park" selection that turns on the tail light if you are on the side of the road. Well, when I locked the forks, I must have turned it all the way to the "P" which left the tail light on for the day. I first tried to push start it in the flat parking lot which didn't work (or course). We have to go down hill out of the parking lot to leave before we get to the main road, so I pushed it over to that and stuck it in second gear. About 1/3 of the way down, the lights came on and finally about 1/2 or 2/3's of the way down if finally fired. The trip meter did not reset to zero, so there must have still been some juice in the battery, but I'm sure it was pretty drained. I took the long way home to try and charge it up, but haven't had the chance to ride it again since. What kind of discharge can these batteries take? Is the battery going to be damaged now and give me issues in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer clwesel Posted August 10, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 10, 2012 I did the same thing with my SV650. Turned the key too far one morning when I got to work and nothing when I got ready to go home that evening. I was lucky and there was a slight hill I could push the bike up, turn around and got it bumped started coming back down. Always double checked the key after that. I would think the battery would be fine, after you get it charged back up. They are similar to Li cell phone batteries, or the batteries in the hybrid cars, etc. and those take repeated discharging/recharging. Check with the manufacture, but I've read that the Deltran Battery Tender is OK to use to charge them, or you can buy a serial charger to plug into the serial port on some of the Li batteries. I wouldn't worry about a one time discharge like you experienced. Check your voltage @ the battery and if it's still low, ride it for a while until it is charged back to 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted August 11, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 11, 2012 My stator died on the RC last summer and I drained the battery. Did it again after I charged it and thought it was the battery not the stator. This, of course is the same battery that gives me trouble on cold weather starts, but works fine all day after that. Lots of variables there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted August 12, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 12, 2012 I'd be careful. Really wish they would have had lines so you could measure the voltage in each cell. Then it would be easy to see if one battery cell is too low or too high or just not taking a charge. Charge it up on the slowest, lowest amp setting possible and see if it takes a charge. These cells aren't super robust. Once they fall below a certain cell voltage, they start to deteriorate. That's not saying they immediately melt and are no good, but it hurts their lifespan and charge/discharge ability. Charge it up to 12.6V and let it sit for 20 minutes. If it still held about the same voltage, then you should be fine. If it dropped more than 0.1-0.2V from taking it off the charger, it might be done for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 13, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2012 What kind of discharge can these batteries take? Is the battery going to be damaged now and give me issues in the future? Generally the kind of damage done to these cells affects capacity. They stop holding as much of a charge and won't deliver as many peak amps. Each cell can end up being damaged differently so the capacity of each cell might be inconsistent, which leads to the battery voltage becoming too low to be usable even when 3 of the 4 cell packs are still good enough. These batteries are 12-cell, made up of 4 x 3-cell groups. In the biz this is called 4S3P (4 batches of cells wired up in Series, each batch made up of 3 batteries in Parallel). The series gives you your voltage, the parallel gives you your capacity (amp/hours). As you can see there is basically twelve different cells which can possibly be damaged. Thankfully the LiFePO4 cells don't blow up or catch fire like LiPO cells do, even when damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 Went to start the bike this morning for the first time since I ran it dead. Lights came on, but it wouldn't start. Guess I need to check the voltage and put a charger on it. The only chargers I have are a Battery Tender and a 2 amp charger though. Thoughts on which one is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted August 13, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 13, 2012 battery tender. That is only 0.75A IIRC. Babysit the battery when you're charging it for the first 15 minutes. Put a volt meter on it and watch to see how the voltage climbs and that the battery doesn't overheat. Aligator clips would be handy for the voltmeter. After the 15 minutes, take the charger off of it and make sure the voltage doesn't drop. If it checks out, put it back on and check it every 15-20 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 Thanks Yoshi. I will probably mess with it tonight. I have some other things to get done in the garage, so will be out there with it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted August 14, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 14, 2012 Sorry, but bring that battery voltage up to spec ASAP, at least up to 11.2V. The longer it is under-voltage, the more you risk damaging cells. Can you tell I'm a little paranoid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Well, I checked last night when I got home and it was about 7.5V. I had of course tried to start it earlier in the week which might have dropped the voltage, so I don't know what it was before that (I'm guessing it was at 9 or 10 volts since lights came on but it wouldn't crank). It went up to 12V at a pretty steady pace with the battery tender. I pulled the charger off after 15 minutes as you suggested. I think it was about 12.5V at that point. I left it off for about 10-15 minutes and rechecked. It was down a little, but still over 12V. I put the charger back on for another 15 minutes and it went up to just over 13V. I checked the battery several times and didn't feel any warmth to it. I then removed the charger and started it. The voltage climbed to over 14V just sitting there. I ran it a few minutes and shut it off. This morning I checked again and it was about 12.7V so I rode it to work today.........making sure not to have the "Park" light on when I left it. Hopefully everything is good again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 The individual cell voltages can be a concern for sure. I use a 4s Headway setup on my bike and my Seadoo. I had 1 cell go bad (.32v) and it won't come back. I don't have an individual cell charger so I am fairly stuck...it may be bad. Luckily I had 4 spare cells so I swapped one out. Putting a 12V charger on it in this situation was causing the battery to heat up fairly well. Keep an eye on them for sure, and test for temps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted August 15, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2012 If your battery voltage went from 14V to 12.7V just sitting there, you have a major issue. I check mine every month, and it hasn't dropped even 0.1V. A drop of 1V is pretty significant. I'm going to assume that the 14V was on the bike while it was running. So check again later to make sure that overnight the voltage stayed the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Well, I checked last night when I got home and it was about 7.5V. I had of course tried to start it earlier in the week which might have dropped the voltage, so I don't know what it was before that (I'm guessing it was at 9 or 10 volts since lights came on but it wouldn't crank). It went up to 12V at a pretty steady pace with the battery tender. I pulled the charger off after 15 minutes as you suggested. I think it was about 12.5V at that point. I left it off for about 10-15 minutes and rechecked. It was down a little, but still over 12V. I put the charger back on for another 15 minutes and it went up to just over 13V. I checked the battery several times and didn't feel any warmth to it. I then removed the charger and started it. The voltage climbed to over 14V just sitting there. I ran it a few minutes and shut it off. This morning I checked again and it was about 12.7V so I rode it to work today.........making sure not to have the "Park" light on when I left it. Hopefully everything is good again. I have to say, that sounds really really flakey, like mentioned. A good AGM battery will hold over 13.0volt for weeks and weeks, if it excellent condition. When they get old you'll start seeing voltages max out around 12.7 or 12.8 volt, right after a full charge they'll quickly fall to that range within a couple hours. I realize your playing with the unproven batteries, so you're kinda on your own with those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted August 15, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2012 Yeah, my VFR sat for much of the past month or so and barely dropped voltage between usage. Generally in the hundredths range. Haven't checked the RC lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted August 16, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 16, 2012 I've had a voltmeter on my ride on full time mostly for curiousity to watch the voltage of the MOTY. I havent drained it down or anything and its been fully charged from the time I've run it. Generally, immediately just after a ride, it's at 14volts and a few days later it settles out at 13.3 v. Then it stays there for weeks. (It did it over the winter.) I've seen 13.1 volts (static) once but that was after I was screwing with changing a blinker bulb and some horn relay testing. -- While working with it, power on, it goes to around 12. 7 and then shut off, it trickles back up into the low 13s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Well, I checked last night when I got home and it was about 7.5V. I had of course tried to start it earlier in the week which might have dropped the voltage, so I don't know what it was before that (I'm guessing it was at 9 or 10 volts since lights came on but it wouldn't crank). It went up to 12V at a pretty steady pace with the battery tender. I pulled the charger off after 15 minutes as you suggested. I think it was about 12.5V at that point. I left it off for about 10-15 minutes and rechecked. It was down a little, but still over 12V. I put the charger back on for another 15 minutes and it went up to just over 13V. I checked the battery several times and didn't feel any warmth to it. I then removed the charger and started it. The voltage climbed to over 14V just sitting there. I ran it a few minutes and shut it off. This morning I checked again and it was about 12.7V so I rode it to work today.........making sure not to have the "Park" light on when I left it. Hopefully everything is good again. I have to say, that sounds really really flakey, like mentioned. A good AGM battery will hold over 13.0volt for weeks and weeks, if it excellent condition. When they get old you'll start seeing voltages max out around 12.7 or 12.8 volt, right after a full charge they'll quickly fall to that range within a couple hours. I realize your playing with the unproven batteries, so you're kinda on your own with those. I have measured my LiFePo4 battery when not connected...voltage over 3 months didn't drop a bit. On the bike the voltage drops...I believe I have a voltage leak but it isn't constant, which is what is weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 If your battery voltage went from 14V to 12.7V just sitting there, you have a major issue. I check mine every month, and it hasn't dropped even 0.1V. A drop of 1V is pretty significant. I'm going to assume that the 14V was on the bike while it was running. So check again later to make sure that overnight the voltage stayed the same. 14V was while it was running. After I shut it off, it dropped to 12.7V, but it wasn't running all that long so I'm sure it was not fully charged. I rode it again last week and didn't have any problems. Checked voltage last night and it was over 13V still (about 13.05V or something). Started and rode today and everything seems good. I probably need to get out and ride it for an hour or two to really get it fully charged up and see if it stays up. My commute is only 8 miles each way, so I'm not sure if that is enough to really get it 100% charged up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted August 22, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 22, 2012 I think you're ok. Mine reads 13.8-ish running, and is 13.3-4 resting on the VFR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted August 22, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted August 22, 2012 I removed my MOTY during the winter b/c it would not provide enough juice when cold. It's been sitting on the shelf until today, when I finally used it on my.... lawn tractor. It turned that engine w/o fuss and measured 13.8V right off the shelf. I never charged it since I took it off the bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Bassie Posted March 9, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted March 9, 2013 If your battery voltage went from 14V to 12.7V just sitting there, you have a major issue. I check mine every month, and it hasn't dropped even 0.1V. A drop of 1V is pretty significant. I'm going to assume that the 14V was on the bike while it was running. So check again later to make sure that overnight the voltage stayed the same. Bogus, a battery is on idle between 12.5 to 13V, the 13.4~14V is only charging voltage, not the battery output in good condion. If you turn the ignition-key and it drops below 12V, then you know the battery is bad, even below before starting at all. When you start a bike, it's not uncommon it drops below 12V, but when going down to 11V without making rotation noises....it's bad for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted March 10, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted March 10, 2013 Hi Bassie --- Just for reference -this thread is refering to these batteries, (LiFePO4 type) Typically resting V for these is in the 13s. http://motydesign.com/ They have to be brought inside for the winter. - Just checked mine for curiousity, its been sitting since November. = 13.37 V. That's impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Knife Posted March 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted March 12, 2013 I bought a MOTY on a group buy deal a year or so go. Worked fine for a few weeks, then one day it was just dead. Would not recharge. Now it's an expensive paper weight. Never again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I bought a MOTY on a group buy deal a year or so go. Worked fine for a few weeks, then one day it was just dead. Would not recharge. Now it's an expensive paper weight. Never again. I had one cell in my battery go bad. This gives a nice flat battery but since mine is modular I just swapped out the bad cell. I have abused my battery...it runs dead due to a parasitic drain on the bike. I only rode 1 tank of gas in the last year. Battery was dead, put the charger on it and it came right back to life. The MOTYs are smaller and don't like the cold it seems...mine didn't have that issue but I still think it should have some monitoring per cell...gotta do something about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted March 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted March 12, 2013 We had a warm day into the 60s and I decided to fire up the viffer. MOTY in bike and it fired up near instantly. Got out for a couple hours and when I got back, since temps were forcasted back into the low 40s, pulled the battery back inside. For me no complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted March 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted March 12, 2013 Monitoring wires on all cells would be a really nice addition, but the average consumer isn't going to know what to do with that. It would also be nice to have a conditioner so you don't under or over-volt the battery pack. But that's the game you play. A123 cells aren't nearly as robust as a good ole lead acid. Really have to take care of that battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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