HID Light Scatter - Explination and Solution

[Guest Recalcitrance]

After 2 months struggling with my HID kit, I've decided to rip it out. The light scatter is too much to deal with and the output is too poor. High beams can't be adjusted high enough in the VFR lens to do any good without the low beams blinding oncoming traffic.

This website was interesting and I wish that I had found it sooner, but better late than never.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com

[HispanicSlammer]

Most headlights use a parabolic reflector for a standard bulb, they are focused on the standard filament for a regular bulb, so the point of light is known and the parabolic shape is tuned to that known point of light. Most HID kits set to go into the standard bulb plug are not of the same length or the light source is in a different position than a standard h4 bulb filiment is so the parabolic reflector is not tuned to focus the light correctly. Bulbs with 2 filaments like the h4 have a second set of parabolic reflectors that might be better suited for an HID kit then say a single filament slot like an h7 slot on the high beams of the VTEC, though the VTEC does not use both filaments of the h4 bulb like a 5th gen.

If your interested in an hid kit you should probably go with one that has the focusing ring built in like a bmw lens type - that dont even use the headlights reflectors, they require a major modification of your headlight. I have seen some vfrs with this done and they look awful to me but at least they are done correctly. If aftermarket hid kits would be built like a standard bulb with the arc in the same spot of a standard filament then they would be useful. Even then some of the extra bulk of the housing gets in the way of the beam, so that also defeats the hid.

You could build a spacer for the hid kit so that the arc is in the right place, take a standard bulb and measure the distance from the base to filament and then then make a spacer to replicate that spacing in the hid lamp, maybe a machinist with a block of Delrin could make you a spacer that puts the arc in the correct spot.

[Veefer800Canuck]

I'm not satisfied with my Sylvania Silverstat Ultras, nice light output, poor lifespan, and too expensive.

HID's I would not do, for precisely the reasons outlined above.

I could do 100/55w normal halogen H-4s, but I already melted one headlight plug with the silverstars in. They are 60/55w whereas the stockers are 45/45w, so the wiring and plug are not beefy enough. Even if I put the headlights on a dedicated circuit, fired off a relay, with heavy duty wiring and ceramic headlight plugs, then there's the possibility of melting the headlight housing from the heat of the bulbs, and that's not a risk I want to take, given the price of the headlight housing, even used is expensive!

Sucks.

[magicman]

Was there not a long thread about kits with pics of the light output and whatnot on here a year ago?

Wasn't it Tightwad and another member developing a kit that had the correct focus?

[Duc2V4]

There is a company in Europe that makes HID projector bulb kits but I can't seem to find the link to them. I recall it being on one of the forum threads, I just don't recall the name of the company or who started the original thread. From what I have read and seen on the web, the projector lamps are the best bet for HID lighting. I'll see if I can dig up the thread and/or link and post it if I can find it.

Cheers

[kaldek]

Was there not a long thread about kits with pics of the light output and whatnot on here a year ago?

Wasn't it Tightwad and another member developing a kit that had the correct focus?

Yup:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/60987-completedcustom-hid-conversion-kit/

[V4 Rosso]

There is a company in Europe that makes HID projector bulb kits but I can't seem to find the link to them. I recall it being on one of the forum threads,

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/68752-hid-conversion-kit/page__view__findpost__p__802972

[DownAndOutNYC]

Nearly the same kit available in the US: http://www.theretrofitsource.com/product_info.php?products_id=237

[Duc2V4]

Thanks Rosso, I thought I saved the link but could not find it in my browser shortcuts. Althought it looks like more work to go with the Morimoto, I think the end results have more accurate light output and better overall results. As I don't do much night driving at the moment, HID lighting is low on my list of upgrades, but if I did opt for HID, this would be the way I would go. It's good to know thee's a US source as well, thanks Down and Out.

[jay-d]

I'm just going to chime in here on something to think about.. I'm a big advocate of HID retrofits done properly. As you can see with that link, I did it the right way for my car using projectors and what not.

Now, I would love to do the same with the VFR800 but I got to thinking.. I'm against glare as much as the next guy, but on bikes.. I feel it's a different story.

Glare is evil in two ways. 1.) It's obviously blinding to on coming traffic and 2.) It can cause fatigue if you're using any colour temperature above 5000k. Blue colour is the hardest colour for our eyes to process, it's very straining and that's what can lead to tired eyes and even headaches.

However, if you were to use a projector, they are known for their very very sharp cutoff and that's great! Especially in a car! But, on a bike? I feel that might not to be great because your eyes will only focus on what's being lit in front of you; they'll have adjusted to the light output of your HIDs so anything above the cutoff is significantly darker and almost unseen to the eye. Even though our eyes have great dynamic range during the day, our night vision's dynamic range isn't anywhere near comparable.

Glare will blind oncoming traffic, but you're on a bike so anything to get opposing traffics attention can either be a good thing or bad thing. It can be good because they'll be cautious as you pass, or it can be bad because they can target fixate and drive right in to you. This is something the rider has to determine as riding a motorcycle it self is a dangerous hobby.

So, having sad that, I think the extra light scatter that goes up above the cutoff can be beneficial to you as a rider to increase your dynamic range vision at night because the cut off won't be such a sharp cut off, but a more gradient one.

Edit: I'm going to mention one last thing about projectors, but I think these projectors are hard to find. On my car, the projector was a FRESNEL lens projector, meaning it wasn't completely transparent lens. It was actually slightly translucent with ripples in the lens as you can see:

These projectors don't have a very sharp cut off, it's gradual, so if you really do want to do the projector retrofit, try to look for a fresnel lens but I don't believe they exist anymore as everyone is opting for the fully transparent ones.

[vanion2]

Nearly the same kit available in the US: http://www.theretrof...products_id=237

An excellent source for quality HID retro fit equipment. They stand behind thier products and don't sell the cheap eBay crap.

If you are going to add HID to your bikes you really need to do more than slap on some HID bulbs and call it a day.

[JZH]

Many US OEM xenons use the fresnel lens (which is often replaced with a clear one by retrofitters). The Retrofit Source probably has piles of them left over! I've probably got a couple pairs somewhere myself (for G36 bi-xenons, IIRC), but now maybe I'll be keeping them!

I have to say that the non-OEM G36-type bi-xenons I bought last time were not as well-made as the OEMs. I was somewhat disappointed, but maybe if I'd not fondled so many OEM units I would not have noticed the difference.

(My experiences with Matt and co. have been pretty good, though not perfect. Yes, he has always stood by his stuff, and is very helpful as well, but he's also made at least two shipping mistakes getting it to me!)

Ciao,

[The Phantom]

Glare is evil in two ways. 1.) It's obviously blinding to on coming traffic and 2.) It can cause fatigue if you're using any colour temperature above 5000k. Blue colour is the hardest colour for our eyes to process, it's very straining and that's what can lead to tired eyes and even headaches.

Three ways, I think. If a retro-fit HID vehicle is travelling just behind another vehicle in an adjacent lane, the glare that goes into that leading vehicle is ridiculous - as in, the operator of the HID-equipped vehicle can tell what colour hair the occupants of the other vehicle have. Which doesn't lend itself to harmonious road sharing.

The other real issue is with colour choice - what you say about blue is correct, but if you go above 4000k and then drive at night in rain - you will be struggling to see where you are going, and the higher the Kelvin rating, the worse it gets.

So, retrofit HID for low beam is generally a bad idea, and I personally won't do it for high beam either. Why? Ever switched from HID high beam to halogen low beam for oncoming traffic? You almost cannot see a thing, such is the contrast in light projection. It is dangerous, and then throw in variables such as weather conditions, tiredness, oncoming vehicles with retrofitted HID low beams... no thanks

[thegorilla]

However, if you were to use a projector, they are known for their very very sharp cutoff and that's great! Especially in a car! But, on a bike? I feel that might not to be great because your eyes will only focus on what's being lit in front of you; they'll have adjusted to the light output of your HIDs so anything above the cutoff is significantly darker and almost unseen to the eye. Even though our eyes have great dynamic range during the day, our night vision's dynamic range isn't anywhere near comparable.

Glare will blind oncoming traffic, but you're on a bike so anything to get opposing traffics attention can either be a good thing or bad thing. It can be good because they'll be cautious as you pass, or it can be bad because they can target fixate and drive right in to you. This is something the rider has to determine as riding a motorcycle it self is a dangerous hobby.

So, having sad that, I think the extra light scatter that goes up above the cutoff can be beneficial to you as a rider to increase your dynamic range vision at night because the cut off won't be such a sharp cut off, but a more gradient one.

These are the exact same concerns I have about installing HID in my 2002 VFR. I installed the Morimoto Mini H1 kit in my Ford Excursion and even with all the pain of opening up the lights, the result is amazing! I did encounter the drawback you mentioned: In dark neighborhoods, I sometimes need to switch to high-beams in order to read street signs.

For that reason, I won't install a projector kit in my bike.

I think it's worth the effort and will drop $60 on a 55 watt DDM kit to try out in the low beam reflector. If there's too much scatter and glare, I'll just use it on another vehicle and if it works, I'll have much brigher lights for riding at night.

FWIW I have 3000K HIDs in my car and 4500K in my Excursion and I wish I had put 3000K in the truck: the lower temp cuts rain/snow/fog glare so much, it's awesome!