indianagenius Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 If there was sufficient straight road, and lane width, would you have had room to pass on the right? When I was riding there was a time or two when I didn't brake soon enough and ended up stopping beside the bike in front instead of behind it. LookingHard From his description of the incident, it sounds as if he had room to clear his partner on the left but that option disappeared as the partner turned left into his path. If I were to attempt to predict the actions of another rider suddenly hammering the brakes, my best guess would be that he would stop quickly and move to the right side of the road and definitely NOT swerve to the opposite side across a double yellow as well as the oncoming lane. WHO HITS THE BRAKES AND GOES LEFT? - especially with a clear lane ahead! I would have duplicated Indiana's move step by step. Yes, it was an instinctive move to go left with an entire lane available and no oncoming traffic. I'll tell you how the TN Officer saw it when I get the police report. I talked to the officer informally after he wrote his report. He is an accident reconstructionist so was well versed. He told me, off the record, that when the lead bike turned left over the double-yellow centerline, that was the central issue. He did not mention anything else. I'll see my friend late this afternoon. He is in great spirits. Neither one of us blames the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I'll see my friend late this afternoon. He is in great spirits. Neither one of us blames the other. This is a true sign of friendship. Good luck to you and your friend. Get back on a bike ASAP even if it is only in the dirt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I'll see my friend late this afternoon. He is in great spirits. Neither one of us blames the other. This is a true sign of friendship. Good luck to you and your friend. Get back on a bike ASAP even if it is only in the dirt! This is not a one time incident scenario, it happens more than you think, where a rider uturns right in front of another. I know it hasnt been a month , sice the last one. This case the rider was on the side of the road on the shoulder, delosute road, he's fixing his music. Un benounced to him, theres a bike running 100 mph coming from behind. The music rider comes right across the lanes in a uturn and BAM. Do I think the 100 mph rider should have slowed with a potentional threat on the side of the road , absolutely! But the uturner simply pulled out with out knowing what was going on around him So these scenarios are something to keep in your mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDO-VFR Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I'm really sorry about the outcome of your ride. I ride with my brother a lot, and he has pulled that same kind of dipsh!t maneouver on me several times, with the last time me actually bumping into his bike (while I had both front and back brakes fully depressed, ABS in full activation). Bottom line is you only pull an emergency stop in an EMERGENCY (which the rider behind most probably will see as well). Having said that, he is still my brother, I still ride with him, but will go to my grave saying it was 'His Fault', because there was no emergency each time. And yes, I ride Much further behind since the bump... So yes, we can assign primary fault to you friend, but at the same time not hang him for the offense. I'm not stupid enough to say that I never made a mistake on my bike, it just didn't take out someone else's bike at the time...so on that count I was lucky. I hope all of this doesn't sour your love for bikes to the point of packing it in. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Infidel Posted May 29, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted May 29, 2011 :+1: I'll see my friend late this afternoon. He is in great spirits. Neither one of us blames the other. This is a true sign of friendship. Good luck to you and your friend. Get back on a bike ASAP even if it is only in the dirt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarge Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Maybe OT but while we are on the subject of things to watch for, I'll relate a new one I recently experienced. Riding on US129 towards the Dragon, I came upon a lawn mower traveling in my direction on the shoulder. I slowed and pulled to the left of my lane to stay out of the new mown grass. Without looking, the mower operator turned out into my lane. Those ZTR's can turn instantly. Had I not slowed and pulled left to clear the grass, we would have tangled. Hope this info saves someone's bacon some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Wow, like you said, a really unusual set of circumstances in that crash. Glad you are ok and sorry for the loss of the VFR, and I really hope Tom makes a full and speedy recovery. He screwed up, I reckon your following distance is irrelevant. You were riding with a friend, in which case the usual 'riding protocol' goes out the window to be replaced by trust. In a way it's hard to blame him as he saw a situation requiring action and simply reacted to it, but the FIRST action in any emergency situation is always to check for danger to yourself and others, before you move onto the next step, which is assessment. Easy for me to say, though, as I am a trained emergency service volunteer. But that is the cold hard reality of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Chuckster Posted May 29, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted May 29, 2011 Hi George, I really hated to read about your unfortunate accident. I'm glad you are okay and your friend is on the mend. Hope you guys heal quickly. Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Belfry Posted May 29, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted May 29, 2011 What I mean is; was there time for your friend, as the lead bike, to move to the left side of the lane and for you to be on the right side of the lane? If there was sufficient straight road, and lane width, would you have had room to pass on the right? When I was riding there was a time or two when I didn't brake soon enough and ended up stopping beside the bike in front instead of behind it. First things first, I'm glad you're both okay and still friends. I hope your friend heals quickly and well. Bikes can be repaired or replaced, but good friends are hard to come by. LookingHard's comment on road position reminds me of a close call I had on my DR650 a couple of years ago. I was riding with a friend who was in the lead on his Yamaha Star (a 1600, I think--huge, but he's a big boy and fits it well). We were on Hwy. 20 in Northern Washington state. The section has gradual corners and it was a dry, sunny day, so we were cruising and I had my feet up on highway pegs mounted to the DR's skid plate (makes for a comfy alternate position for longer stints in the saddle). Suddenly he's hard on the brakes stopping as quickly as he can for reasons unknown. It takes me a second to realize he's emergency braking and another second to remember my feet aren't on the controls! I'm off the throttle, on the front brake, and swinging my feet back on to the rearset so I can downshift and apply rear brake all at the same time. I end up braking hard enough that I get some howl out of the tires (not that easy to do on dual sport tires) and come to a somewhat graceless stop (with a lot of front fork dive) beside my friend. He thought everything was fine since he couldn't see my white knuckles under the gloves or the blood rushing back to my face under the helmet! What saved us both was being diligent about road position. We tended to take similar lines through the corners, but I always took a second to switch to the opposite side of the lane (from the one he was using; as per my group ride training) after each corner to maintain a staggered road position, and was also careful about keeping a safe following distance. If I had been on the same side of the lane, I would have been wrapped around his sissy bar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I think you've enough insight to have fully learned all there is to learn from this... so here's hoping your buddy recovers is full health and you can both get back out on the road and put what you've learnt into practice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted May 29, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted May 29, 2011 Hope you both heal up fully, both physically as mentally. Kicking tyres and talking petrol at some point in the future. The rest is plastic and metal...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer yellowvfrider Posted May 29, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted May 29, 2011 I remember you stopping. I was slightly "out of it" for about an hour after the accident. It was a very traumatic situation. It has taken me this long to put the story in writing. I wish had gotten to meet you under different circumstances. Thanks for stopping. There was nothing more you could have done at the time. Yeah, the pink Harley...that brings back memories. As Seb mentioned we passed the crash site after your buddy was already on his way to the Hospital. You were standing near your VFR that was parked against a tree and I'm guessing that some of the HD riders friends were trying to get her pink Hog out of the woods. I was on the Black 6th gen and asked how you were and if you needed any assistance when you told me about your buddy. Your seemed slightly out of it I'm sure trying to figure what just happened, but said you were basically OK, just as the Trooper returned to you for more info. Agreed, no one should make unusual voluntary changes to their path with-in a group, especially the Lead as everyone needs time to react. At the same time this is were Spacing is key to reaction time needed in an emergency situation. It takes Very little distraction to get in big trouble in this area. Reminds me of some old saying about Rescue that went something like "Don't become a Victim yourself" Hope your friend heals completely and all works out for both of you. Sorry if I should have done more for you at the moment! BR Been there, done that and with much worse results! I know how this type of thing effects your mind and some times for a long time. Glad you were OK and hope we do meet again sometime soon. VFRD is here for you in whatever way we can help, this forum and it's amazing members are who/what has gotten me through several Bad experiences! Hopefully I can Pay it Forward in any way shape or form. BR You just proved me right, BR. Your ARE solid gold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorscheBob Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Indiana, Really sorry to hear about you and your friend's accident. I hope by now both of you are healed physically and mentally and are back on the road. You asked for feedback. So here is my two cents . . . You both were at fault and IMHO you were about 60% and your friend was 40% at fault. Many responses here pretty much sum up the main problem . . . riding too close. It's bad enough to have accidents, but it's really bad to not learn something from them. I have been on several trials as an expert witness and often see "too close" as a problem. My suggestion, if you haven't already done it, is to take the Experienced Rider Course put on by the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) and get super good at swerving and stopping. Also find an empty parking lot and practice until you are blue in the face, but remember, don't combine them at the same time! I've been riding for more than 55 years (zero accidents) and I still practice. I hope you will take these suggestions as someone who is trying to help you and not criticizing your riding skills. Good luck and no more accidents! Bob Retired MSF Chief Instructor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer racerman Posted July 3, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 3, 2011 Very sorry to hear of your accident, and your injured buddy. Lots of good comments have been made on how to avoid stuff like this in the future. I'm going to address your "motorcycle hiatus" comment. If the break from riding is medical or financially driven, I hope it doesn't keep you off two wheels for long. But if you are planning a break because you're second guessing your skills or the dangers of riding, I'd strongly encourage you to think about it some more. IMHO, the joy I get from riding is far to precious to be wasted on the fear of "what if". Accidents happen. Your skill was good enough to allow both of you to survive what could have been much worse. Riding one of my motorcycles is, for me, one of the greatest pleasures in life. Just remember... Everyone dies. How many of us really live? All the best to you and your friend. Garry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Geez that sucks. I hope your buddy is getting along OK, how about an update on his condition? I can relate to the shattered ankle scenario, oh boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelman Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 It's old now, but here's my 2 farthings: You probably needed a bit more following distance; your friend should not have suddenly slowed when and where he did, should have pumped 2 or 3 brakelight flashes to alert you and used standard hand signals to communicate, and above all needed to hold his line. Never ride directly in the wheel tracks of any nearby rider. Maximum braking is an under-appreciated skill and fine art that needs regular practice on a quiet road without traffic at all speeds. Your bike looks fine, just needs a bit of plastic repair. Hope you're back riding and friend is healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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