Liknked brakes modification

[keny]

I lately been woundering if it would be possible to do the following modification to the linked brakes on a 5th (and 6th gen)?

I like the linked brakes in general, but the rear I would like to use separate. The front could still operat the rear also. I have the started to wounder if the secondary MC have to be persure feed, as it is now, or would it work if you feed it from a diffrent reservoir whit gravity? If so you could take off the pipes that feed from rear MC to the front and conect so the front main MC feeds all pistons in the front brake callipers. You would need a smaller MC rear but a bigger MC front proberly. I wounder if this also (if possible) would make the brakes more front based? I´m not rideing tracks (that mutch) so I want to skip the linked brakes. Even I was sceptical of them first I do like them on street werry mutch. I just dont like that the rear also operats the front, spechally on slippery/loose sand downhill outsife tarmac. I do it seldom but I do it now and then.

Also speaking of MC, how mutch a diffretn is a radial MC compared to a "regular" MC? Worth the investment?

[Guest]

Not sure if it is possible but I wish that was the way honda would have designed it... It only makes sence to have linked brakes in a panic situation and most likely you would grab a hand full of front brake and forget or miss the rear, however there are situations in contact with gravel or sand that no front brake is wanted...

[vanion2]

I've heard of delinking the brake system all together but not changing the bias. That doesn't mean it's not possible though.

And I thought the linked brake system was just to reduce front end dive? Of course I use the front brakes 100% of the time and only add back brakes when coming to a stop so I never think about it.

[Ryanme17]

Not sure if it is possible but I wish that was the way honda would have designed it... It only makes sence to have linked brakes in a panic situation and most likely you would grab a hand full of front brake and forget or miss the rear, however there are situations in contact with gravel or sand that no front brake is wanted...

The top reason for linked brakes, in my opinion, is to avoid locking the rear wheel and causing a high-side.

[MBrane]

IIRC the 6th gen have more front brake bias than the 5th. Not sure of the details though.

[spud786]

IIRC the 6th gen have more front brake bias than the 5th. Not sure of the details though.

The 5th gen has 2 front pistons operated by the rear brake, the 6th gen only has one.

Best thing to do, is to drop the rear brak pedal down, cause honda comes with it set up to high, and your foot will ride on the brake pedal. I got 7,000 miles out of my first rear set. I adjust the pedal, and got 11,000 miles, adjusted some more and aover 20 ,000 miles, get my drift.

But yeah in slow speed uturns, rear brak use it touchy with a uturn, otherwise I dont see any real negatives.

[vanion2]

Not sure if it is possible but I wish that was the way honda would have designed it... It only makes sence to have linked brakes in a panic situation and most likely you would grab a hand full of front brake and forget or miss the rear, however there are situations in contact with gravel or sand that no front brake is wanted...

The top reason for linked brakes, in my opinion, is to avoid locking the rear wheel and causing a high-side.

I thought that feature was known as ABS.

[MBrane]

Not sure if it is possible but I wish that was the way honda would have designed it... It only makes sence to have linked brakes in a panic situation and most likely you would grab a hand full of front brake and forget or miss the rear, however there are situations in contact with gravel or sand that no front brake is wanted...

The top reason for linked brakes, in my opinion, is to avoid locking the rear wheel and causing a high-side.

I thought that feature was known as ABS.

Poor man's ABS: don't use rear brake if above 1st gear.

[keny]

IIRC the 6th gen have more front brake bias than the 5th. Not sure of the details though.

The 5th gen has 2 front pistons operated by the rear brake, the 6th gen only has one.

I had the belived the more front bias on the 6th gens was becorse of a diffrent modulator setup?

[kaldek]

I had the belived the more front bias on the 6th gens was becorse of a diffrent modulator setup?

It's both. The rear brake lever operates only one of the front pistons AND the modulator valving puts less bias to the rear.

When you use the rear brake pedal, it activates one of the pistons in the front left caliper, which subsequently activates the secondary master cylinder, which then activates the remaining piston in the rear caliper.

Quite a balancing act.

[Vee-Ef-Ar]

I had the belived the more front bias on the 6th gens was becorse of a diffrent modulator setup?

It's both. The rear brake lever operates only one of the front pistons AND the modulator valving puts less bias to the rear.

When you use the rear brake pedal, it activates one of the pistons in the front left caliper, which subsequently activates the secondary master cylinder, which then activates the remaining piston in the rear caliper.

Quite a balancing act.

Hence the DCBS - Dual Combined Braking System

[Skids]

Why would you never use the rear brake? Or never above 1st gear? If you are risking locking the rear, you have left braking too late or should be using the front as well.

Over here, advanced riding techniques teach you to use "Acceleration Sense" to anticipate decelerations and minimise the use of brakes. This is especially good approaching a corner where the bike will be more stable as it is not settling onto the front under front braking, followed by settling onto the rear under acceleration out of the corner. If brakes are needed, ideally use the rear as this causes less dive at the front. If needed though, use the front. DCBS aids all this by spreading the braking load, reducing the amount of dive and thus the bike is more settled - for the average rider. Racing techniques are totally different and not appropriate to road riding.

I cannot understand why anyone would want to mess (de-link) with a system designed to complement a road bike like the VFR.

All JMHO of course.

[V4 Rosso]

I cannot understand why anyone would want to mess (de-link) with a system designed to complement a road bike like the VFR.

You'll find the answer in his first post, you ever watched the 1000 lakes rally in Finland?

I just dont like that the rear also operats the front, spechally on slippery/loose sand downhill outsife tarmac. I do it seldom but I do it now and then.

[Switchblade]

IIRC the 6th gen have more front brake bias than the 5th. Not sure of the details though.

The 5th gen has 2 front pistons operated by the rear brake, the 6th gen only has one.

Best thing to do, is to drop the rear brak pedal down, cause honda comes with it set up to high, and your foot will ride on the brake pedal. I got 7,000 miles out of my first rear set. I adjust the pedal, and got 11,000 miles, adjusted some more and aover 20 ,000 miles, get my drift.

But yeah in slow speed uturns, rear brak use it touchy with a uturn, otherwise I dont see any real negatives.

+1 That’s what I did and it was a big improvement. I was bad for leavening my foot on the rear brake pedal thus wearing out the rear pads and one set of front pads !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SAFE-T]

Years ago there was a member on vfrD that had reversed the operation of their linked brakes on their 5th gen. ArizonaVFR ? Had a yellow 2000 model.

Unless you were going to modify a part of the bike where retention of the LBS was no longer possible, I would just leave it alone. In braking tests, the VFR often equalled or bettered the stopping distances of lighter bikes with better brakes, including the CBR929/954.

[MBrane]

I had the belived the more front bias on the 6th gens was becorse of a diffrent modulator setup?

It's both. The rear brake lever operates only one of the front pistons AND the modulator valving puts less bias to the rear.

When you use the rear brake pedal, it activates one of the pistons in the front left caliper, which subsequently activates the secondary master cylinder, which then activates the remaining piston in the rear caliper.

Quite a balancing act.

No kidding. Pretty crafty those Honda engineers.

I see no problem with the LBS on my 5th gen, and that's directly comparing it to my GTS which has one of the best stopping distances ever recorded.

Experienced track riders may not dig it, but I'm not one of those nor will I ever be. If you're riding in the dirt a lot perhaps you should consider a bike designed for such. I'm not afraid to take my girl down the occasional dirt road though LBS & all.

[keny]

My problem whit the rear also does act the front is not just that the front might look up on gravel, its also when rideing slow in city and there is sand on the tarmac. I´m used to use the rear then, for several reasons lie in slow rideing and so. Haveing rideing dirtbikes doesnt help. having your fork diveing while pressing the rear brake just dont feel normal

The main thing why Honda has theis is becors there is a bunch of folks that just dont use the front the way they shold! I do understand the reason, and it might be safer for some (more unexperies riders, older rides coming back to rideing whit wrong ride technic).

I do like the that the rear also brakes when I use the front, feels mutch more powerfull and stabile compared to just a front brake. Ok I have not tried newer sport bikes brakes and I dont ride trackdays. I know thouse folks dont like it. But I could use a more front base system to be sure. I do ride fast in the twists

If it wold be as simple as just conect the brake horse that goes to the rear MC to the front MC, no problem, but its a spechal one, not a normal banjo one. ANd the one that feed the secondary MC and left calliper is also a spechal one that cant be made of universal parts. Thats why I would like to separate the front and rear system at the frontend. It would also eas the bleeding prosess.

[Baileyrock]

having your fork diveing while pressing the rear brake just dont feel normal

Actually the front & rear should be much more level when using the rear only on a Linked system.

A Radial M/C provides Greater pressure for the same amount of force vs standard M/C simply because of it's mechanical advantage! Or it takes less force/pull to generate the same amount of stopping power!

BR

[keny]

The 5th gen has 2 front pistons operated by the rear brake, the 6th gen only has one.

Well I have checked my system and whit rear brake pedal you operat 2 rear pistons and one front in each calliper, whit front brake you operate 2 pistons a calliper front and one piston rear.

Ofcorse when using the rear and it operates the front the last rear calipper piston also com in play

[keny]

Actually the front & rear should be much more level when using the rear only on a Linked system.

A Radial M/C provides Greater pressure for the same amount of force vs standard M/C simply because of it's mechanical advantage! Or it takes less force/pull to generate the same amount of stopping power!

BR

Starts to sound I shold check the rear calipper more close then, sounds like some piston not moveing as free as it should.

I have looked into the linked brakes pritty close now, and started to think that I will not do any mods to it. First I will check the rear calipper closely, then maybe get some brained brake lines for the front system, as I have found its the rear system that feeds the secondary front MC. I belived it was the front system....

And if money allow a new MC, a radial one. Guess it have to be a 13mm one as the stocker.

Also the size of the pistons in the calippers is weard. not symetrical front betwen the calippers.

[V4 Rosso]

If you want control of the rear brake you can also switch to a stunt bike setup with a thumb brake.