Stator Failed... R/R's fine!

[tinyminds]

So I posted a couple months ago that my R/R finally gave out, even with all the wiring mods you could think of. I honestly had one of the most solid charging systems I've ever seen on a VFR, holding a solid 14.3v no matter what accessories, lights, etc I had turned on.

Here's the start.

I'm riding home one night, my left headlight shuts off ( I have HIDs by the way ). Odd... I have my headlights switched separately, so I switched it off and back on to reset the ballast, well when I did this it shut the other light off too... so i'm riding up the turnpike with no headlights at night time. I glance down and I see my dash getting dim.... uh oh.... I knew what was happening instantly. Well this section of the turnpike is pitch black dark, not the area you want to break down in. So I flipped my emergency blinkers on and halled a$$. The next exit was about 3-4 miles way. Not sure if I would actually make it that far, I was going to give it a shot. I hit the exit ramp 3-4 miles later @ about 140mph (Disclaimer: for legal purpose these speeds may be exaggerated) and the bike died as I'm about half way down the ramp. I had enough speed to make almost to the gas station off the exit, then I pushed it the rest of the way.

I take my right side fairing off and see the nice and toasted R/R connector, then just called my wife to have her hook up my trailer and come pick me up. I get home and hooked the bike up to the tender to recharge the battery. Then a couple weeks later finally decide to verify my assumption... disconnect the stator, test resistance across the stator: 0.7, 0.8, 0.8 ( looks good ). Hook it back up, start the bike up, voltage with no headlights on is 12.3vdc, with headlights on is 10.7vdc ( so only one headlight will actually start up ). I disconnect the monitor wire.... nothing changed on the R/R output, the R/R wasn't even warm to the touch. So I ordered a new R/R.

Two months later.... I finally decide i should probably get my motorcycle fixed. I've been so busy with mountain biking and cyclocross races I've not had any free time. So, I install the new R/R.... I'm getting the same results as before, 12.3vdc w/o lights and 10.7vdc w/ lights. Not cool! The way my wiring is I have two additional red wires going straight to the battery (fused) besides the two that go through the bikes wiring harness, as well as additional grounds and a bypassed monitor wire, so there is no other area's for issues to occur that aren't obvious. Could the new R/R be bad too? I had used one on another VFR so I tested this one before I took it off the other bike and it charged around 14vdc. So I hook it up and same thing.... 12.3vdc. So.... I disconnect the R/R and test the resistances again with a different meter with the same results: 07, 0.8, 0.8. Hmmm.......

So, with the R/R disconnect I start the bike and test voltage across the stator with the bike running: 32vac, 32vac, 0vac. With the bike running I test resistance again: 0.7, 0.8, 0.8. Craziness. Resistance is fine, but voltage output on one circuit is 0vac. I've heard of this before but never seen it. So because i have spare everything laying around, I put another stator in the bike and hook up my original R/R and ....... chaaaching! 14.3vdc again. So I put the new R/R on the bike since I have it, put the old one that has 45k miles on it and still running strong in my drawer for a spare.

In the end, I learned to not only look at resistance, because in this situation it tested normal even though the stator was shot. Also proves that no matter how well you wire something up.... something else will fail. Owe well. its fixed now! Sorry for the long writeup, just thought people would find this interesting with all the common R/R failures around.

[RollinAgain]

then just called my wife to have her hook up my trailer and come pick me up.

Now that's a good woman!! My wife would have been clueless. Glad you got it sorted those electrical gremlins can be a real pain the arse. My buddy Vince's 4th Gen has been out of commission for more than 6 months due to electrical issues. I think we finally got it all sorted now after replacing his R/R , Harness, and Stator.

Rollin

[Ryanme17]

Look on the bright side, now you have an extra R/R for when that one goes bad!

[spud786]

What ohms scale were you using to check stator to ground, too small of scale you'll not pic up the short, if its not a strong short?

seems like you only checked ohms between the yellow wires

[TexOz]

.... So because i have spare everything laying around, I put another stator in the bike and hook up my original R/R and ....... chaaaching! 14.3vdc again. ...

I was thinking "what sort of a bloke just happens to have a spare stator hanging around?" until I read your signature -> '02 VFR800 (crashed)' ... mmmmm that'd be the donor I suspect :happy:

Anyway, good post Jason - thx for the info!

[kaldek]

What ohms scale were you using to check stator to ground, too small of scale you'll not pic up the short, if its not a strong short?

seems like you only checked ohms between the yellow wires

I had the same problem with my '02 stator. Ohms read fine, but zero volts on one phase.

[spud786]

What ohms scale were you using to check stator to ground, too small of scale you'll not pic up the short, if its not a strong short?

seems like you only checked ohms between the yellow wires

I had the same problem with my '02 stator. Ohms read fine, but zero volts on one phase.

My point, if not using a high ohms scale you can miss a short, my last two stator failures on different bikes, the stator ground check was my first step, no need to look else where it was bad. From this post only the 3 yellow wires were tested for continuity to each other and thats not the main ground check for a shorted stator.

What Im looking for, Is this answer. I tested each yellow wire to ground, on the highest ohm scale avalable, and it was infinite. Then the stator passed the Ground check along with the yellow wire continuity amongst each other, Then you can move to voltage checks.

14.3 volt is weak for a 6th gen

[Bent]

I think it's a pathetic statement on Honda that they have so many completely inexcusable electrical problems. It's one reason I won't own another Honda. Wish i could feel differently but this is 2011 and electrical systems passed Honda by several decades ago. Other than that, they do get one from point a to point b....usually..... :biggrin:

[spud786]

When I look at electrical amongst all brands , including Harley.

They all are about the same of the top brands, if you get more than 50,000 mile out of a stator, thats above average for any brand.

[steve27bha]

This flowchart gives a complete checkout of the charging system, and would have found the fault.

I suggest you Bookmark it, download and print/laminate/stick it up in the garage. It's worked for me a couple of times.

http://electrosport.com/technical-resources/diagnosis-center/fault-finding-guide

[TexOz]

This flowchart gives a complete checkout of the charging system, and would have found the fault.

I suggest you Bookmark it, download and print/laminate/stick it up in the garage. It's worked for me a couple of times.

http://electrosport.com/technical-resources/diagnosis-center/fault-finding-guide

How good is that chart!? :fing02:

Thx for posting Steve - it'll save me fumbling around the bike with a multi-meter next time I have an issue :comp13:

[JZH]

What ohms scale were you using to check stator to ground, too small of scale you'll not pic up the short, if its not a strong short?

Honda workshop manuals always used to include a note regarding the use of the "recommended multimeter", mentioning that "Other manufacturer's equipment may not allow you to obtain the specified values...due to the characteristics of semiconductors, which have different resistance value depending on the applied voltage." However, I dunno if this would account for the "false negative" in this case.

Ciao,

[Polarbear]

When I look at electrical amongst all brands , including Harley.

They all are about the same of the top brands, if you get more than 50,000 mile out of a stator, thats above average for any brand.

Soooooooo, for the average bloke who owns a 6th gen --or any other gen maybe--, what this implies is that when we get to about 50,000miles we should just replace the stator and r/r just as preventive maintenance, right? Would you say that this would dramatically improves our chances of never having an electrical problem? Or would the old wiring/connections still overheat and give us headaches?

Christian

[CandyRedRC46]

i only made it 18k. my stator tested 3vac, 8vac & 16vac on the "good" phase lol. it looked like a burnt marshmellow when i pulled it out. i was scared into replacing the rr and stator at the same time(threw on a vfrness too) for fear that a bad rr could kill a new stator. i wonder if ive got a perfectly fine rr sittin in my tool box now? lol oh well. hopefully i dont gotta worry about this again for a while...

[spud786]

The vfr is typically a post 50,000 mile stator, the cost and hassle tend to be a( replace on failure type item), cause you can go longer than that. There's no sure thing with stators, they are a pretty weak, high failure item on a bike. Some bikes are lucky to see much more than 20,000 mile, some fail at 10,000 mile. The VFR stators are really one of the more reliable stators.

Interesting to note, on my vfr stator falure at 56,000 mile, normaly the floating voltage level on a ride is 14.5 to 14,8 . For the 2 weeks prior , the voltage sat much of the time at the lowend end of that scale around 14.2 v way too much, I never saw above 14,5 which was odd comparison as to normal. I noted that, but the voltage read was still in spec. But that was my intial notice there was an abnormality going on . I see than again, I wont wait 2 weeks and die in the middle of the road. The day it died, I left the driveway, with a read of 14.7 volt, somehere in the next 30 milutes, the stator completely died. So its not simple to catch, till it actually goes. My Radar detector squealed low voltage, i was having a grand ole time, and didnt even notice the failed charging system when it went out. Some bikes will ride a full day with failed stator, the vfr uses to much electrical and will kill a battery charge, very quick.

[Polarbear]

The vfr is typically a post 50,000 mile stator, the cost and hassle tend to be a( replace on failure type item), cause you can go longer than that. There's no sure thing with stators, they are a pretty weak, high failure item on a bike. Some bikes are lucky to see much more than 20,000 mile, some fail at 10,000 mile. The VFR stators are really one of the more reliable stators.

Interesting to note, on my vfr stator falure at 56,000 mile, normaly the floating voltage level on a ride is 14.5 to 14,8 . For the 2 weeks prior , the voltage sat much of the time at the lowend end of that scale around 14.2 v way too much, I never saw above 14,5 which was odd comparison as to normal. I noted that, but the voltage read was still in spec. But that was my intial notice there was an abnormality going on . I see than again, I wont wait 2 weeks and die in the middle of the road. The day it died, I left the driveway, with a read of 14.7 volt, somehere in the next 30 milutes, the stator completely died. So its not simple to catch, till it actually goes. My Radar detector squealed low voltage, i was having a grand ole time, and didnt even notice the failed charging system when it went out. Some bikes will ride a full day with failed stator, the vfr uses to much electrical and will kill a battery charge, very quick.

I understand that this stator may fail pretty much anytime, right? This is making me want to carry a spare stator with me all the time on long trips, just so that I'm not stranded in the middle of nowhere with a dealership having to order one and wait for it to get there within 7 days or so... Pretty heavy extra luggage though, right?

C

Thanks for this thread though. Very informative.

[Tightwad]

Having a spare stator would add about 3-4 pounds to your luggage...and isn't really replaceable on the side of the road unless you also have the tool to remove the flywheel...but I suppose both might be doable.

Waiting 7 days is insane...One can always be overnighted to you unless you are in outback somewhere.

[BIGRHINO]

Thanks for the info here fellas. Knowing what to look for on the voltages is a big help. :fing02:

My case I did not notice anything showning the battery dying. The only two indication I had was I would ride the bike to work in the morning and then ride home in the evening. In the evening it would seem a bit sluggish to start but nothing crazy. When I get home I would stop just outside the garage. Go to crank it back up to pull it in and nothing. Dead.....

The only real indication I had a power problem going on was my ZUMO would start switching (Continue on battery power / then back to power). Started thinking I may have a problem with the zumo. Used it in the truck a few days and no problem on the GPS.

Pulled the battery out to get load tested as I just bought a new one last fall so half way through the warranty want to make sure the battery is still good. Picked up the battery today unplugged the stator from the R/R checking voltage's I had one leg that was showing 1.65 vac.

Ordered new stator today. Just to be safe went ahead and ordered the R/R as well.

[kaldek]

Having a spare stator would add about 3-4 pounds to your luggage...and isn't really replaceable on the side of the road unless you also have the tool to remove the flywheel...but I suppose both might be doable.

Sure it is - the flywheel can stay in place unless you change stator sizes (i.e. '02 bike getting an '06 stator fitted). Pretty sure once I knew what I was doing the stator replacement took about an hour.

Getting the stator out of the engine case cover is a bitch though - they use loctite on the bolts which are also torx head. A decent impact driver and someone to hold the case down is needed!!

[spud786]

The vfr is typically a post 50,000 mile stator, the cost and hassle tend to be a( replace on failure type item), cause you can go

I understand that this stator may fail pretty much anytime, right? This is making me want to carry a spare stator with me all the time on long trips, just so that I'm not stranded in the middle of nowhere with a dealership having to order one and wait for it to get there within 7 days or so... Pretty heavy extra luggage though, right?

C

Thanks for this thread though. Very informative.

Youd be better off over nighting a stator IMO, they are pretty fragile and expensive to be carrying around , I think around $285 retail, and about $235 mail order, or if your bike is around 75,000 mile or higher, might be better to look at a preventative replacement.

BUt, learning whats normal with your electrical, goes a long way in catching the early signs of failure, cause yeah, they just go out pretty quick with no real warning,.

[Guest]

then just called my wife to have her hook up my trailer and come pick me up.

Now that's a good woman!! My wife would have been clueless.

Rollin

Now, THAT's a great call, Rollin'. Yours and a lot of others. Certainly, my Ex- wouldn't have had a clue...alas. We'da been stuck there, bro, or at least the bike would have. :biggrin:

[Willy]

This flowchart gives a complete checkout of the charging system, and would have found the fault.

I suggest you Bookmark it, download and print/laminate/stick it up in the garage. It's worked for me a couple of times.

http://electrosport....t-finding-guide

Thanks for the reference tool. I hope I never need it - but based on all the forum traffic on this topic - I expect I will come to this fate at some point in my riding future.

[BIGRHINO]

As you can see from the pic the stator was toast. Replaced the R/R any way didnt even test it. I will hang onto it as a spare until I get around to testing it. Left my meter at work. Just as a side note the bike has just under 40k for mileage.

[kaldek]

As you can see from the pic the stator was toast. Replaced the R/R any way didnt even test it. I will hang onto it as a spare until I get around to testing it. Left my meter at work. Just as a side note the bike has just under 40k for mileage.

Unfortunately that picture says nothing - all stators look like that whether they are burned out or not. However, I will say that the blackening is probably a sympton of the root problem. They get hot - too hot - and the insulation in the wiring breaks down.

Considering that the stator is basically a big lump of metal with copper wiring all over it, degradation of the wires and insulation is about all that can go wrong with it.

Note that the bit which is not black is the part closest to the bottom of the engine, which gets some oil flowing over it.

[spud786]

There is something very common with the picture. Stator fires(shorts) tend to start in the upper quadrant of coils, virtual always.

Fiqure out how to cool the area better, and your on to something. Old Nortons and Harleys, Ive seen Posted Redline Oil has done very well at providing cooling and dropping their oil temps.

A year Or so ago Id contemplated running redline, although I had clutch slippage issues on another bike, but since that time they's introduced the MC type, whether its better on the clutch I dont know. But I was Tracking a Harley which had run it since new and his stator failed at 56,000 miles. So that ruined that idea.