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JES_VFR

Tired Of Having A Hot Vfr?

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I don't read shematics well so this is not a knock Tightwad. :rolleyes: Just simpfied.

I set up my switch as a closed ground (-) SoThe fan is switched on as a ground loop so no positive wire is required.My fan is swiched on manualy and or by the thermo couple.

This way I can't forget to turn it on. It also shuts off with the key if left on.

David

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I don't read shematics well so this is not a knock Tightwad. :rolleyes: Just simpfied.

I set up my switch as a closed ground (-) SoThe fan is switched on as a ground loop so no positive wire is required.My fan is swiched on manualy and or by the thermo couple.

This way I can't forget to turn it on. It also shuts off with the key if left on.

David

yeah, your way probably works better.....this is what I get for overthinking it. Piggyback onto the black wire, connect to switch, connect switch to ground. Power is switched with the key.

:pissed:

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I would suggest that a lot (but not all) of the "my VFR runs hot" babble that goes on is because we have a digital temperature readout instead of a dial. Now we are more conscious of the numbers instead of the hand on a dial hovering around about there somewhere smile.gif

I too agree with this. I also wonder how close the calibration of the gage is to correct. We all know the speedos are notoriously off. I would submitt that the temp gages are off a bit also.

My 98 never sees the temps mentioned here. I put a Scotts Performance oil filter on a few years back and it droped the temp. about 10 degrees. The filter has much more flow than a paper element filter. So it's like water and oil cooled.

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Let me preface this by saying that i'm not the most mechanical guy in the world, but...

Would it be possible to just take the OEM fan off and flip it 180 degrees so the fan blades are pointing the other direction rather than having to buy the vtx part? I've been having MAJOR overheating issues and am looking for ideas on anything...

Todd, this is something i've got experience with, I reversed polarity and flipped the blade on the right hand side of my RC51. It defineatly helped with the 51 but they are known to run hot, real hot in our climate. I had to drill out the backside of the blade alittle to make it work but that was the extent of it, oh I added some spacers also. Have you thought of removeing the V-cowl also as this allows more airflow over the cyclinders. In your case i'm not sure i'd do this as the VFR isn't typically a real hot runner, your problem is somewhere else although doing this shouldn't hurt even if the problems found. I took pics whilst doing it on the RC so I know what I did, real easy actually and if ya want to do it let me know, maybe I could help ya when I get back.

When I bought my RC51 the previous owner had removed the left side fan due to what he said was both fans pulling air into the engine area just made hot air build up in there. In the year and a half I've had it I have never replaced it and the temp never goes above 220. The right side fan seems to be enough. I have the fan and have thought about reversing it and placing it back on the bike but it really isn't necessary.

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When I bought my RC51 the previous owner had removed the left side fan due to what he said was both fans pulling air into the engine area just made hot air build up in there. In the year and a half I've had it I have never replaced it and the temp never goes above 220. The right side fan seems to be enough. I have the fan and have thought about reversing it and placing it back on the bike but it really isn't necessary.

I tried this first and it worked great, actually better than what I ended up doing..................when moving. At stop and go and in slow moving traffic though it was a different story, the bikes temp rose incredibly quick to #'s that scared me so I wound up reversing polarity and blade which gave me the best results overall. I've read many posts where people said you only needed to change polarity and that would do the trick, well I tried this initially and found that that idea did absolutuley nothing. Whats happens is the blade now spins opposite so it should be pushing not pulling which it does except the pitch and direction of the blade are now wrong, the air ends up not only not pushing but also not sucking, it sorta does nothing at all. I tested this off the bike so I could really see what was happening, maybe on the bike it'd be different but i'm not sure how in stop and go traffic. Taking the fan out altogether, (left side) along with the plastic deflector was absolutely the best whilst moving, all sorts of air can hit the front cyclinder and escape through the left rad at speed. Just my findings and also on a 51, not tested on a VFR.

Also....I'm in an incredibly hot climate, on average 72 days over 100f, (last year we had over 90 days) so this is a brutal test for these machines

Todd, Spanglish is what I believe we're talkin here although he kicks my ass in both languages :rolleyes:

Edited by AussieinUSA

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Did anybody answer the guy who asked: "Why not simply remove the stock fan from the stock fan motor, turn only the blade OVER so it pushes OUT rather than sucks IN, and reinstall the now-inverted blade back onto the stock fan motor?"?

If so, I missed it.

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Did anybody answer the guy who asked: "Why not simply remove the stock fan from the stock fan motor, turn only the blade OVER so it pushes OUT rather than sucks IN, and reinstall the now-inverted blade back onto the stock fan motor?"?

If so, I missed it.

That wont help, you would have to reverse the motor(polarity) also. I also think you'd possibly have to mod fan to make it fit, I know I had to on the 51. The VTR fan may be good though.

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Did anybody answer the guy who asked: "Why not simply remove the stock fan from the stock fan motor, turn only the blade OVER so it pushes OUT rather than sucks IN, and reinstall the now-inverted blade back onto the stock fan motor?"?

If so, I missed it.

That wouldn't work. If you flip the fan over, the blades are still at the same angle and will continue to push air into the engine compartment. All you would accomplish is making the fan less efficient, which may actually be a good thing especially at low speeds... :rolleyes:

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For what it's worth:

Service Honda lists the part for $22.78 (USD)

Ron Ayers lists the part for $27.20 (USD)

Simple search with P/N provided (19020-MBB-003).

I think _*MY biggest issue is the stop and go, moving behind a behemoth (slowly), where the fan is on for a long time and the temps don't seem to go down.

If JES_VFR has good results, this mod may be something I pony up the big cash for (I'm a frugal/cheap bastid).

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Member JoeW on the forum can get you Honda parts. His prices are just as good as Service Honda's... FWIW

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Alright, so the stock fan flipover won't work. Honda may have wanted to suck it in for ambient air to cool the radiator, or they wanted to kill some noise.

It seems pushing air out through the radiator with the VTR blade would move hot air out of the engine/pipes area (and pull ambient air into that area, maybe even through the right side radiator), but doing so would be to push hot air through a hot radiator to achieve a cooling effect. So I understand it works in practice, but that's one question that occurred to me - do you get the same cooling as stock if you're pushing hot air across the radiator?

The second issue has to do with push/pull. It's easier to pull a load than push it, and it seems when the stock fan is in use it would be easier for that motor to pull air from the outside through the radiator, than for the motor to push air through what, due to the fan's closeness to the radiator, actually becomes something of an obstruction. So my next issue is fan motor longevity if used to push, rather than pull. I have no clue, but throw it out to those who might.

I'd love to make the switch if the stock situation was done for noise purposes, the change was effective, and it didn't shorten my stock fan motor life.

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For what it's worth:

Service Honda lists the part for $22.78 (USD)

Ron Ayers lists the part for $27.20 (USD)

Simple search with P/N provided (19020-MBB-003).

I think _*MY biggest issue is the stop and go, moving behind a behemoth (slowly), where the fan is on for a long time and the temps don't seem to go down.

If JES_VFR has good results, this mod may be something I pony up the big cash for (I'm a frugal/cheap bastid).

Well I gave the standard msrp price since I got mine for 18.00 (hey, I'm a parts counter monkey, remember guys).

Anyway, I have an update:

Last night I actually had the fan switch on while limping along on some residential back streets last night (I had a roofing nail in the back tire and about 11 psi left).

The temp was 224 when I heard the fan switch on. At the time I was creeping along at about 15mph as I was about eight cars behind some bluehair heading home from her nightly church meeting. It only stayed at 224 for a few seconds and by the time I was another block down the street, it switched off again.

Oh and for the detail people. At 2230 hours last night I installed a stop-n-go mushroom plug with the pistol grip tool and filled the rear Avon to 48 psi.

So today I ran it pretty hard on my way into work, but did not encounter enough traffic to get the vfr past 190F.

And on the commute home tonight at 2015 hours, the indicated temp did not pass 223 until I was home, with the engine idling as I dismounted to unlock and open my garage door.

Again the temp immediately stopped climbing and started to decrease.

I don't think that the push/pull issue is one at all, since either way the fan motor's work is to move air through the radiator core.

As for it moving hot air from the header pipes, oil cooler and cylinders through the radiator to the exterior of the bike, I'm not sure that makes a huge difference. I mean heat is being removed from within the motorcycle and dumped into the atmosphere. I don't think that it matters a hell of a lot if it is drawn from the radiator or from the other sources, those calories are removed from the bike's systems and others will have to migrate in from somewhere.

What I do notice is that when the fan kicks in, I can easily reach down and feel the heat coming out of the left side. Before when it was sucking in air on that side and supposedly dumping heat out the right side, I could not feel heat on the right side. I also think that there is much less heat bleeding into the cockpit area at a stop light.

I think that I need to borrow a couple of small digital thermometers to monitor the temps in these areas.

I'm tentatively calling this a success.

Edited by JES_VFR

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For what it's worth:

Service Honda lists the part for $22.78 (USD)

Ron Ayers lists the part for $27.20 (USD)

Simple search with P/N provided (19020-MBB-003).

I think _*MY biggest issue is the stop and go, moving behind a behemoth (slowly), where the fan is on for a long time and the temps don't seem to go down.

If JES_VFR has good results, this mod may be something I pony up the big cash for (I'm a frugal/cheap bastid).

Well I gave the standard msrp price since I got mine for 18.00 (hey, I'm a parts counter monkey, remember guys).

Anyway, I have an update:

Last night I actually had the fan switch on while limping along on some residential back streets last night (I had a roofing nail in the back tire and about 11 psi left).

The temp was 224 when I heard the fan switch on. At the time I was creeping along at about 15mph as I was about eight cars behind some bluehair heading home from her nightly church meeting. It only stayed at 224 for a few seconds and by the time I was another block down the street, it switched off again.

Oh and for the detail people. At 2230 hours last night I installed a stop-n-go mushroom plug with the pistol grip tool and filled the rear Avon to 48 psi.

So today I ran it pretty hard on my way into work, but did not encounter enough traffic to get the vfr past 190F.

And on the commute home tonight at 2015 hours, the indicated temp did not pass 223 until I was home, with the engine idling as I dismounted to unlock and open my garage door.

Again the temp immediately stopped climbing and started to decrease.

I don't think that the push/pull issue is one at all, since either way the fan motor's work is to move air through the radiator core.

As for it moving hot air from the header pipes, oil cooler and cylinders through the radiator to the exterior of the bike, I'm not sure that makes a huge difference. I mean heat is being removed from within the motorcycle and dumped into the atmosphere. I don't think that it matters a hell of a lot if it is drawn from the radiator or from the other sources, those calories are removed from the bike's systems and others will have to migrate in from somewhere.

What I do notice is that when the fan kicks in, I can easily reach down and feel the heat coming out of the left side. Before when it was sucking in air on that side and supposedly dumping heat out the right side, I could not feel heat on the right side. I also think that there is much less heat bleeding into the cockpit area at a stop light.

I think that I need to borrow a couple of small digital thermometers to monitor the temps in these areas.

I'm tentatively calling this a success.

Good info. Now it occurs to me Honda might "suck" rather than "push" because pouring that heat that close to the fairing side might soften the paint/plastic if it goes on for a while?

Apparently the VTR pushes, so I'm looking for why the VFR pulls, and the extra plastic comes to mind. Thanks the experiment and ongoing data.

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For what it's worth:

Service Honda lists the part for $22.78 (USD)

Ron Ayers lists the part for $27.20 (USD)

Simple search with P/N provided (19020-MBB-003).

I think _*MY biggest issue is the stop and go, moving behind a behemoth (slowly), where the fan is on for a long time and the temps don't seem to go down.

If JES_VFR has good results, this mod may be something I pony up the big cash for (I'm a frugal/cheap bastid).

Well I gave the standard msrp price since I got mine for 18.00 (hey, I'm a parts counter monkey, remember guys).

Anyway, I have an update:

Last night I actually had the fan switch on while limping along on some residential back streets last night (I had a roofing nail in the back tire and about 11 psi left).

The temp was 224 when I heard the fan switch on. At the time I was creeping along at about 15mph as I was about eight cars behind some bluehair heading home from her nightly church meeting. It only stayed at 224 for a few seconds and by the time I was another block down the street, it switched off again.

Oh and for the detail people. At 2230 hours last night I installed a stop-n-go mushroom plug with the pistol grip tool and filled the rear Avon to 48 psi.

So today I ran it pretty hard on my way into work, but did not encounter enough traffic to get the vfr past 190F.

And on the commute home tonight at 2015 hours, the indicated temp did not pass 223 until I was home, with the engine idling as I dismounted to unlock and open my garage door.

Again the temp immediately stopped climbing and started to decrease.

I don't think that the push/pull issue is one at all, since either way the fan motor's work is to move air through the radiator core.

As for it moving hot air from the header pipes, oil cooler and cylinders through the radiator to the exterior of the bike, I'm not sure that makes a huge difference. I mean heat is being removed from within the motorcycle and dumped into the atmosphere. I don't think that it matters a hell of a lot if it is drawn from the radiator or from the other sources, those calories are removed from the bike's systems and others will have to migrate in from somewhere.

What I do notice is that when the fan kicks in, I can easily reach down and feel the heat coming out of the left side. Before when it was sucking in air on that side and supposedly dumping heat out the right side, I could not feel heat on the right side. I also think that there is much less heat bleeding into the cockpit area at a stop light.

I think that I need to borrow a couple of small digital thermometers to monitor the temps in these areas.

I'm tentatively calling this a success.

So wiring wise - was it a snip it and reverse it job?

MD

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...I'm tentatively calling this a success.

So wiring wise - was it a snip it and reverse it job?

MD

No. All Jes did was replace the radiator fan with one from the VTR. The wiring stays the same.

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...I'm tentatively calling this a success.

So wiring wise - was it a snip it and reverse it job?

MD

No. All Jes did was replace the radiator fan with one from the VTR. The wiring stays the same.

To be very specific,

All that I did was change the original fan blade for one from a VTR.

the fan motor is original.

the fan support is original.

Mello Dude, I suggest that you go back to the top and take another look at the pictures. I took one with the VFR fan blade on the motors shaft and then one of the new fan blade sitting on the same motor. What you see is all there was to the modification.

If you are mechanically skilled enough to go in and remove the radiator fan from the bike, then this swap is a no brainer.

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How does spanish sound with an Aussie accent??? :schla15: :unsure: :fing02:

Emmm, just think of Mad Max overtaking the main part in El Zorro... :cool:

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How does spanish sound with an Aussie accent??? :unsure: :fing02: :cool:

Emmm, just think of Mad Max overtaking the main part in El Zorro... :goofy:

He He He :schla15:

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Cool running today, no really it was 57 ambient on the commute in this morning and so I barely got the bike to 165F.

And the ride home was 65 and very gusty so it was only showing about 189 when I shut off in my little garage.

I'm trying to clear the morning schedule tomorrow to get a real ride in and get some real readings on cooling conditions.

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JES_VFR, what year VTR was that part number for, or is it the same for various years of VTR manufacture?

Bye the way, quoted price for VTR fan from Honda in Australia was AUD$43.

Cheers, Jules.

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JES_VFR, what year VTR was that part number for, or is it the same for various years of VTR manufacture?

Bye the way, quoted price for VTR fan from Honda in Australia was AUD$43.

Cheers, Jules.

I just used the part number for a 2001 vtr, but I believe they are all the same.

I'll check in the morning

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JES_VFR, what year VTR was that part number for, or is it the same for various years of VTR manufacture?

Bye the way, quoted price for VTR fan from Honda in Australia was AUD$43.

Cheers, Jules.

I just used the part number for a 2001 vtr, but I believe they are all the same.

I'll check in the morning

This is a great fix if the data proves it out. It prompted me to look at the oil cooler for the VTR vs VFR. They look the same but the VTR is $138 while the VFR is $202. Can you see if this would be a viable swap if the Vtr is bigger?

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I've found that the VFR's cooling system works very well when you're stopped. But, if you're riding around between 10-20 mph, the radiator fan loses all of its efficiency since it has to push against the wind. But, once you get up to highway speeds, the wind easily overpowers the fan and the bike cools down.

My 04 cools only adequately in stop and go traffic. However, I too have the same cooling problem at speed. Once my fan comes on at speed it will NEVER shut off until I stop and let the bike cool down. Not only is the fan pushing hot air back into the engine area, the other rad is now subjected to this hotter air and I suspect that the overall cooling capacity is further diminished. I have changed the thermostat and run water wetter with distilled water but this has made no difference.

I've always suspected that the bike would cool better if the fan direction was reversed. Last weekend I did an experiment by reversing the polarity of the fan. Basically, I just shaved off the keys on the connector and plugged them back together.

Here are the parameters of my experiment:

The model: VFR (VTEC) 2004

Reversed fan direction using stock fan (blade now turning in reverse) Fan is significantly louder than before.

Outside air temp 80 degrees

Results:

I let the bike idle until the fan started before riding at which point I rode it at speeds of 30-45mph. As I suspected the temp dropped rather quickly, the fan would cycle off at around 206 degrees F and the temp would stay there until I stopped the bike and let it idle long enough for the temps to rise again.

Unfortunately, with the fan in the reversed direction the air flow is significantly diminished (not a problem when moving) and the temp would slooowly climb while the bike sat on the driveway. The fan switched on at 222 and the temp climbed to 228 before I shut it down. Keep in mind that it's only 80 degrees so I imagine this overheating scenario would happen a lot faster when the temps get up into the 90's. For this reason I went back to the stock configuration.

I will have to further investigate the VTR Fan mod for the 6th gen model. I suspect that fan blade (turning in it's proper direction) pushing air out of the engine bay might cool the bike sufficiently at idle.

Edited by vfrvern

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UPDATE

Well the temperatures are finally getting up to summer like weather again.

It was in the mid seventies yesterday morning (as opposed to 60ish) and I was running late.

So the VFR was ridden hard on the way into work and actually reached 220 as I pulled into the lot (which is only 35 degrees warmer than it was all of last week).

Coming out to go home at 2010 last night the bikes ext temp reading was 81 degrees, and the water temp was over a hundred after only a minute of idling.

I caught every one of the five stoplights on the way home and had to cross the bridge behind a DRPA Wannabe-a-cop. While waiting for the third stoplight (Its a separated fourway with left turn lights so its long), the coolant temp hit 224 and the fan kicked on. The temp immediately stopped climbing and in a about half a minute was heading back down.

It was back down below 220 before the light changed and the dropped like a rock as soon as I got moving again.

This would not have been the case before with the old fan blade.

Cruising down the boulevard the temp was 185 (not 227-8 and climbing) and it did not get enough time to rise back to 224 at the remaining two lights.

It did rise to 224 when I stopped at my garage and dismounted to open the door and turn on the light. As I backed the bike in, I took a moment to watch the temperature.

Ext temp was reading 78 degrees and there was no breeze at all, so the bike fan was the only air mover. The coolant took just shy of three minutes to come back down to about 218 and shut the fan off. Before this the temp would have just climbed until I switched it off.

I did get sometime to look through the fiche at work.

I used a 2001 VTR fan which is common to more than one year VTR.

It will also fit on the motor shafts of VTEC VFR's and RC51 cooling fan motors.

Now my fiche does not show fan diameters or shroud dimensions so I cannot say if it will fit 100%, but it does look promising for these applications as well.

the fan will be noiser than the stock sucker.

That is simply because the noise a fan makes follows the air flow it generates and so the noise is pushed out with the air instead of pulled in and buried against the engine.

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