Member Contributer n3n3 Posted April 2 Member Contributer Share Posted April 2 Hello, all have been troubleshooting this for a while and need help. Right now I can jump the black wire to the brown wire and the fuel pump runs. When I first turn on the key I do get 12 volts from both black wires continuously and 4 volts from the brown wire for a few seconds but the pump doesn't run. I can jump from black to brown and pump will run all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 2 Member Contributer Share Posted April 2 I sure hope when you did the Jumping that you Never accidentally applied the 12v Black/White wire power to the Brown/Black wire as this Will destroy your ECM? The ECM supplies the Ground side for the FCR coil on the Brown/Black wire to energize it and run the fuel pump. - Do you hear the FCR click at Switch On for a few seconds? - If you are only seeing 4v on the Brown wire for the Fuel Prime duration, you may have high resistance contacts within the Relay itself, a faulty relay or poor contact connections within the relay socket. Are there any visible signs of corrosion in the socket? - Try swapping the FCR with your Hi Beam Relay. The four relays being Hi Beam, Lo Beam, ESR and FCR are all the same type. Good Luck. Let's know how you get on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer n3n3 Posted April 2 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 2 I swapped relays no differance even installed a new one still 4 volts should I be getting 12 volts cleaned all sockets that I could find with penetrating oil wd40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 2 Member Contributer Share Posted April 2 You didn't answer if you hear the relay click/energizing at switch On? From your description it appears the Relay is Not being energized from the ECM. Another Important Question - When turning Ignition to ON, does your Fi Light come On then switches OFF after the 3secs fuel prime time, OR does it remain ON? If it remains ON Check your Ignition Switch wiring, does it have 4 wires and is one of them Pink? This Pink wire is a hot wiring security feature and if the correct voltage (set by a Zener Diode on the bottom of the Ignition Switch) of 9volts is Not sent to the ECM it will not enable the Fuel Pump. See attached picture of the Ignition Switch base. Don't forget, at switch On the Fuel Pump should only run for about 3secs. The Relay will only energize for that time. Once cranking and running is detected by the ECM the FCR is again energized running the Pump continuously. With your meter set to voltage and Red lead on the battery positive. Probe the Brown/Black FCR wire with your Black meter lead. At switch On are you measuring 12v for about three seconds then the voltage should disappear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer n3n3 Posted April 3 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 3 I pulled out the throttle Boddies because I had a fuel injector leaking and ordered a water temp sending unit my water temp flashes 270 all the time even with the sending unit disconnected. Has anyone tested one before I did it per the manual it seems to be reading very high resistance. I did what you said no power to the brown wire with the black strip. The 2 black with white strips have 12.8 volts but to be fair the throttled body wires are all disconnected, Yes there is a pink at the key. FI light turn on them back off in a few seconds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted April 3 Member Contributer Share Posted April 3 Infinitely high resistance for the temperature sender = a broken (or disconnected) wire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 4 Member Contributer Share Posted April 4 On 4/4/2024 at 5:07 AM, n3n3 said: I did what you said no power to the brown wire with the black strip. Your ECM is not providing the required Ground on the Brown/Black wire to energise the FCR. 1. You haven't made it clear if you unknowingly or accidentally applied the Black/White wire power to the Brown/Black wire when jumpering? If you did then you've blown the internals of the ECM. If you saw zero volts with that test, then I'm thinking you have zapped your ECM! Even with a bad ground (unless its open circuit) you possibly should have seen some form of low voltage during the 3sec switch On prime. 2. If the above doesn't appply, then you need to check the ECM Grounds. According to my drawing the ECM Grounds are at A9 and A20 both Green/Pink wires and B1 a Green wire. These should measure near Zero ohms continuity back the the battery Negative terminal. This will most likley lead you to the dreaded Orange Ground junction Block located in the wire harness just above your Chain Guard. See pictures. Do a very close inspection of this. Bad Grounding within this block causes a multitude issues with sensors and the Fuel Pump FCR operation. Within the block there are Two Genuine Ground wires, all the other wires are joined up via a buss bar and connectors to the Genuine Ground wires. The repair is to cut the block out and neatly solder ALL wires together and heat shrink sleeve the bundle, then tape it back onto the wire harness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer n3n3 Posted April 4 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 4 Im not sure if the previous owner jumped the wrong wire or not. I will check it in the morning thanks so much for your help. I was wondering why not just leave it jumpered I believe the pump doesn't shut off when the motorcycle is running anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 4 Member Contributer Share Posted April 4 2 hours ago, n3n3 said: I was wondering why not just leave it jumpered I believe the pump doesn't shut off when the motorcycle is running anyways If the Ground path control for the FCR within the ECM is blown there may be other consequences within the ECM. Having the Fuel Pump running constantly without ECM control removes a certain amount of safety protection, and anytime you have the Ignition on the Fuel Pump will be running constantly, not a really good scenario. But, its your bike and possibly doable provided there's no other damage to the ECM. But before going down that road, suggest the ECM Grounds and Orange Ground block need Very Good checking. Also check the Frame Grounds are clean and tight and have zero ohms continuity to the battery Negative terminal. Refer Section 1 of the Service Manual for Ground locations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer n3n3 Posted April 4 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 4 Check orange block looks good did notice mine has one less wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 5 Member Contributer Share Posted April 5 So the Ground block "looks good"! Did you happen to measure the two genuine Ground wires I mentioned within the block to ensure they are Properly Grounded? Have you checked the frame Grounds I mentioned? My last suggestions on your issue, I'm running out of ideas............. 1. MEASURE the ECM Grounds I've mentioned! A9 and A20 both Green/Pink wires AND B1 a Green wire. Unplug the ECM connectors, set you meter to the lowest Ohms range Black lead on the Battery Negative (Not Frame) probe these wires at the ECM connector. DO YOU READ ZERO OHMS?????? Refer to the attached partial wiring diagram and the ECM plug layout picture. 2. Verify you have Solid 12v at the Black/White wire at the ECM plug B8 Ignition to ON. 3. Check all ECM Pins and sockets for any sign of corrosion or oxidization due to moisture ingress. 4. Verify you have continuity/Zero Ohms on the FCR Ground wire Brown/Black from the ECM A5 to the FCR Relay Base. 5. Unplug one of the Sensors, be that the MAP, IAT, BARO or ECT. Turn on ignition, have the Sidestand DOWN. Does the ECM issue the appropriate Diagnostic Code for the sensor? If NOT this is further evidence your ECM could be toast. 6. If all Grounds, Power and wire continuity are tested as OK. Then there is a high probability your ECM is toast. INFO - As complex as the ECM is it is an incredibly reliable device. Generally it's Grounds, Power Supply, Sensors or wiring and connections that are at fault, rarely the ECM itself. Destroyed ECM's that I'm aware of have been caused by Overvoltage from a faulty R/R and the self induced incorrect jumpering of the FCR relay for Fuel Pump ops and Flow testing. Incorrectly placing 12v from the Black/White to the ECM grounding wire Brown/Black causing a dead short taking out the ECM. Good Luck and Happy Fault Finding! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted April 5 Member Contributer Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, Grum said: So the Ground block "looks good"! Did you happen to measure the two genuine Ground wires I mentioned within the block to ensure they are Properly Grounded? Have you checked the frame Grounds I mentioned? My last suggestions on your issue, I'm running out of ideas............. 1. MEASURE the ECM Grounds I've mentioned! A9 and A20 both Green/Pink wires AND B1 a Green wire. Unplug the ECM connectors, set you meter to the lowest Ohms range Black lead on the Battery Negative (Not Frame) probe these wires at the ECM connector. DO YOU READ ZERO OHMS?????? Refer to the attached partial wiring diagram and the ECM plug layout picture. 2. Verify you have Solid 12v at the Black/White wire at the ECM plug B8 Ignition to ON. 3. Check all ECM Pins and sockets for any sign of corrosion or oxidization due to moisture ingress. 4. Verify you have continuity/Zero Ohms on the FCR Ground wire Brown/Black from the ECM A5 to the FCR Relay Base. 5. Unplug one of the Sensors, be that the MAP, IAT, BARO or ECT. Turn on ignition, have the Sidestand DOWN. Does the ECM issue the appropriate Diagnotic Code for the sensor? If NOT this is further evidence your ECM could be toast. 6. If all Grounds, Power and wire continuity are tested as OK. Then there is a high probability your ECM is toast. INFO - As complex as the ECM is it is an incredibly reliable device. Generally it's Grounds, Power Supply, Sensors or wiring and connections that are at fault, rarely the ECM itself. Destroyed ECM's that I'm aware of have been caused by Overvoltage from a faulty R/R and the self induced incorrect jumpering of the FCR relay for Fuel Pump ops and Flow testing. Incorrectly placing 12v from the Black/White to the ECM grounding wire Brown/Black causing a dead short taking out the ECM. Good Luck and Happy Fault Finding! You are a gem Graham. Top (and detailed!) advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 5 Member Contributer Share Posted April 5 59 minutes ago, Terry said: You are a gem Graham. Top (and detailed!) advice. Wow ya makin me blush! Many thanks Terry. Best Regards to You. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Presson Posted April 5 Member Contributer Share Posted April 5 I agree with Terry. Quite outstanding and patient! Cheers Grum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted April 5 Member Contributer Share Posted April 5 Re the Orange block, mine looked just like that when I fished it out of the loom, but on further inspection many of the wires going into the connectors in that block were corroded & covered with green oxidation which is not conductive! Check the wires going into the block ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer St. Stephen Posted April 5 Member Contributer Share Posted April 5 10 hours ago, Terry said: You are a gem Graham. Top (and detailed!) advice. A big +1 to that! I always figured if I bought another VFR I'd just ask Grum if I could ship the whole bike to him in SE Australia and have him sort out the electrics! 😉 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer n3n3 Posted April 5 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 5 I ordered a ECU will see what happens. Thanks for all the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted April 5 Member Contributer Share Posted April 5 5 hours ago, St. Stephen said: A big +1 to that! I always figured if I bought another VFR I'd just ask Grum if I could ship the whole bike to him in SE Australia and have him sort out the electrics! 😉 I'm sure he'd be up for an all expenses paid trip to the US with his multimeter. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 5 Member Contributer Share Posted April 5 5 hours ago, n3n3 said: I ordered a ECU will see what happens. Thanks for all the help! So with all the info provided, and a few more simple checks and tests to do, you're just going to ignore that and spend up big on a replacement ECM! Well, I sure hope your guess work gets the bike going for you! Your Fault could be as simple as a damaged wire, the Brown/Black ECM to FCR or a Ground problem with one of the ECM grounds mentioned! Then again, if you're unsure or don't want to admit to an accidental jumpering of the wrong wire at the FCR, then Yes, you will need a new ECM. Knowing that would have saved a whole lot of wasted time and effort. Good Luck and for the benefit of us all let's know how you get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 6 Member Contributer Share Posted April 6 Diagnosticians are a dying breed. We're the last generation of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer n3n3 Posted April 6 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 6 I bought the motorcycle from a person on this forum I saw on the forum he had the same problem and he posted this picture with the wires jumped so the ECU must be toast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 6 Member Contributer Share Posted April 6 9 hours ago, n3n3 said: I bought the motorcycle from a person on this forum I saw on the forum he had the same problem and he posted this picture with the wires jumped so the ECU must be toast YOU'RE JOKING. Why the hell didn't YOU mention this at the very Start!!!!! The answer to your Fault would be in three words - Replacement ECM Needed. But You already knew that! THE ANSWER WAS ALREADY THERE IN THAT OTHER POST - I Know of it Well. It pisses me off you've sent us on a wild goose chase, wasting time and effort and you not owning up to a known Fu@k Up with FCR Jumpering - No wonder I was suspicious. SHIT - I guess it sounds like I'm angry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Skids Posted April 6 Member Contributer Share Posted April 6 Don't blame you m8, I'd be angry too if I'd wasted so much time trying help someone else out. Trouble is, this may deter all those of you who offer their immense knowledge and time from stepping in to help others - well done n3n3 (where's the wanker emoji?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer n3n3 Posted April 6 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 6 WOW! Calm the fuck down I just saw that posted so that's why I stopped. Thank you for all the help no reason to get all pissed off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 6 Member Contributer Share Posted April 6 7 hours ago, n3n3 said: WOW! Calm the fuck down I just saw that posted so that's why I stopped. Thank you for all the help no reason to get all pissed off. I've calmed down a little.... So you're trying to tell me you purchased the bike Not Running from a forum member TDChip who was Well informed his ECM was blown caused by his incorrect FCR bypassing, and you knew nothing about it? He completely hid this info from you? You knew nothing about his forum posting and only discover it today? Hmmmm! Very very interesting....!!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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