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lawnmowerman

me versus Honda dealer

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so here is  my story.  1998 Honda VFR 800 charging at 12.9 to 13.6 at 5000 RPM,  and 14.2 at idle.  i took my bike to a Honda dealer because i do not have the time or the knowledge to fix my Hond VFR after having it for 7 days they tell me that 13.6 volts at 5000 RPS is good enough  the repair manual says  it should charge at 14 to 14.8 I tell service dept the  that the manual says it should be charging at 14 to 14.8  they tell me that 13.6 volts is enough and i want it fixed right  because fixing it right will help prevent further problems rather than leave me broken down on the side or the road . is there a number of a honda dealer rep that i can speak to about this issue and what is the right charging rate. and if they can help this dealership fix my problem correctly i am willing to pay for service . the dealer tells me that after inspecting the system that it is working correctly  and charging at 13.6 volts. is there a Honda dealer or rep out there that can help me thanks john

 

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Hence why so many of us don't take our machines to the dealer. On the plus side it sounds like the dealer isn't trying to sell you things they don't think you need. That sounds very much like the failing R/R on 5th gens.  Mine had the same symptoms.  A new R/R brought it back to spec. Not saying it will yours  but it sounds very familiar. 

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Many a 5th gen riders have been stranded by Honda's bass ackwards reverse charging R/R and yours is demonstrating as a example. Over time the 12.9 to 13.6v range dwindles lower and you end up stranded. IMHO, the fix wont be at a Honda dealer. They have to abide by the book and its not going to get you there. The real fix is a current tech MOSFET R/R available at 

www.roadstercycle.com - FH020aa.... there are hundreds of guys here who have done the switch, myself included. 

- I see you are in the UP Michigan, is there an independent mechanic that could help? 

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1 hour ago, mello dude said:

Many a 5th gen riders have been stranded by Honda's bass ackwards reverse charging R/R and yours is demonstrating as a example. Over time the 12.9 to 13.6v range dwindles lower and you end up stranded. IMHO, the fix wont be at a Honda dealer. They have to abide by the book and its not going to get you there. The real fix is a current tech MOSFET R/R available at 

www.roadstercycle.com - FH020aa.... there are hundreds of guys here who have done the switch, myself included. 

- I see you are in the UP Michigan, is there an independent mechanic that could help? 

thanks for this advice i think you may be right. the dealer is not doing me any good. just costing me money , did you have the same problems ? and did this fix it for you,  if you ever ride you bike to Tahquamen falls in the upper peninsula let me know 

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Charging system issues on the 5 gen is something almost all have to deal at some time or another.  I had to deal with the same issue about a year ago.  You can see my posting "charging system performance upgrade" that talks about the solutions I used along with other owners solutions.  As stated in the post, generally the problem is bad connector block connections to the RR and poor grounding.

 

After implementing the charging system upgrade described in the post, I have not had any problems with it since.  But I have to agree with the dealer about the voltage range.  I get around 13v at idle and 13.8v at speed.  Plenty of voltage to charge a 12v battery.

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Get on Roadstercycle.com and order the SH847 R/R kit (it’s the latest in series technology and much better than MOSFET).
 

The installation is removing the seat and tailsection; unplug the existing R/R and remove; cut off the stator plug and strip those three yellow wires; the SH847 is quite large and you can just velcro it in your underseat area; crimp the three wire leads to your stator wires and heatshrink; connect the +/- wires to the battery; reinstall the tailsection and seat. That’s it. 
 

Make sure your voltage readings are at the battery and not from a circuit. Circuits can have a lot of resistance in them and reduce the reading you see. 
 

Anything below 14.3V-14.6V at the battery is abnormal. 


https://www.roadstercycle.com/

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or you just use your head.. add 3 grounds from your wire harness to the frame.. front, mid, and back.. from the green wire in the main harness.. and remove the connector block from the stator to the r/r wires.  watch the voltage go over 14 in a blink..:fing02: i recommend adding a computer fan over the r/r as heat is a killer.

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2 hours ago, gll429 said:

or you just use your head.. add 3 grounds from your wire harness to the frame.. front, mid, and back.. from the green wire in the main harness.. and remove the connector block from the stator to the r/r wires.  watch the voltage go over 14 in a blink..:fing02: i recommend adding a computer fan over the r/r as heat is a killer.

have you done this , hate to say it  but  i think your right

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The 5th Gen needs no help in the grounds dept. So long as the main harness connectors, ground block, and frame connection are good and clean, there should be zero issues. 
 

Everyone should know, by now, to eliminate the stator connector. 
 

Saying to add a fan to the OEM R/R ensures longevity is nonsense. The archaic circuitry and the fact it’s a shunt-style R/R only ensures it’ll fail. Telling people to simply add a fan is a disservice to the board. If one wants to cobble crap together like that on their own bike, that’s fine. But, it’s no solution and OEM R/R’s routinely leave the unknowing stranded by the roadside. 
 

An SH847 runs at lukewarm temperatures and actually helps the stator to run cooler, which helps to improve its service life, as well. This R/R opens/closes the charging circuit, as needed, which is why everything runs cooler. There are thermal images on the web showing the definitive differences. It’s the most reliable setup currently available.


I have SH847s on two bikes and an FH020(OEM) on another. 

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I'm running the FH020aa on my 5th gen, and IF it ever gives up ghost, I may try the SH847.... its physically larger and needs a bit of creativity to mount on the 5th gen.

- (6th gen is fine with the right mounting plate.) - Current art is to wire direct to the battery, with fuse of course to the pos side and neg to the ground or battery....... agree to delete the stator connector. 

Its the well known upgrade on this forum..... and the other side of the fence VFRW too. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, lawnmowerman said:

have you done this , hate to say it  but  i think your right

I should hope so, i was only the head tech at a honda dealership and now build custom bikes.  i ALWAYS add extra grounds to EVERY bike...especially hondas.:fing02:

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It's cheap to upgrade the ground connections, anyway:  You can upgrade the grounds and then check for an improvement--before buying any new parts!  And if it doesn't help, you haven't wasted any money on something you don't need to do as part of a charging system upgrade anyway.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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On 10/26/2019 at 5:26 PM, gll429 said:

or you just use your head.. add 3 grounds from your wire harness to the frame.. front, mid, and back.. from the green wire in the main harness.. and remove the connector block from the stator to the r/r wires.  watch the voltage go over 14 in a blink..:fing02: i recommend adding a computer fan over the r/r as heat is a killer.

I am  not the best mechanic around but i definitely  have what it takes to fix this my self with a little help , if i try to fix this and have any fairly simple questions can i message you , except i wont have time to do it for three weeks or so   Lawnmower man

 

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5 minutes ago, lawnmowerman said:

I am  not the best mechanic around but i definitely  have what it takes to fix this my self with a little help , if i try to fix this and have any fairly simple questions can i message you , except i wont have time to do it for three weeks or so   Lawnmower man

 

check your PM..

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On 10/26/2019 at 10:37 PM, gll429 said:

I should hope so, i was only the head tech at a honda dealership and now build custom bikes.  i ALWAYS add extra grounds to EVERY bike...especially hondas.:fing02:

I'm with you there... Good grounds are a cheap enough way to lower the resistance of every circuit on the bike. 

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