fonque Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Fork Allen bolt was stuck so I drilled it out. I removed the damper assembly but the bolt shank is stuck. I drilled out the middle of the shank to weaken it but it still won't budge. Should I hit it work a torch? I think the person that rebuilt the forks last used rtv red. Any help very much appreciated!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted October 31, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2015 if you drilled out the bolt.. the fork is taken apart.. yes ? if so you should have lots of bolt to grab with a vice grip and remove..if its still tight.. sure. use the torch . if the fork is still together. you haven't drilled the head off yet. go slow and carefully and step the bit sizes just enough to drill the head and not the whole bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonque Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 I got the old bolt out now I can't get the new bolt on, it screw down about half way and gets stuck and I can't back it out our tighten it. it just free spins. So frustrating. I am beginning to hate these damper rods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted October 31, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2015 If the bolt is stuck in the compression valve body, which is spinning inside the cartridge, then you need to PULL the forks apart in order to stop it spinning. I would suggest you take the forks apart again and find out why the bolt won't go in. The thread in the valve body may have been damaged when you drilled out the old bolt. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted October 31, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2015 Yeah, sounds like the guy used some locktite on it. He should have some stuck up his butt too. But if you got the forks apart you should be able to look down inside and see what it would take to hold the damper so you can use a tap and some MEK to clean the threads out. That's what it will take to make that a free turning bolt again. And use a air impact to snug things up when you put it back together, not high air pressure, just enough to snug it down so it won't turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted October 31, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'd definitely try to take the bolt out again if you can. Pulling up on the damper rod will pull the cartridge up and hopefully put a little tension on the compression valve mount against the circlip and stop it spinning quite as easily. If/when you get them apart I would run a tap through the compression valve mount to make sure the thread is clean, and do the same with a die on the bolt. I did this myself as I got stuck in the same place as you, and you really need to have a reliable, free-moving thread assembly when you have no way to stop parts spinning. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty7Fifty Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Have you tried using a tap? Sounds like that might do it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonque Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 I'm not that far. the new bolt is still stuck in the bottom of the fork and I can't get it out. I am going to have to drill this out again and buy another bolt unless anyone has any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty7Fifty Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Are you able to post a pic? I'm visual, prob come up with something if I can see what it looks like. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonque Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 Here are pictures of what I did to get the shank out after the bolt was drilled out. I drilled 2 small pilot holes for needle nose pliers to hold the rebound cartridge in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonque Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 I gave up for tonight. I think my next plan is to buy another bolt. Drill out this bolt. Use the needle nose pliers and the wrench to remove the bolt shank. Then I am going to drill a hole in the side of the cartridge to tap and add a small metric set screw. I saw a post where someone has done this previously on this forum. http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/36818-need-help/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty7Fifty Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Drill out this bolt. Use the needle nose pliers and the wrench to remove the bolt shank. Then I am going to drill a hole in the side of the cartridge to tap and add a small metric set screw. Yeah that's last resort, but before you do that I'd try heating it up a lil' bit.... might break loose with a little pb blaster and heat. If you don't wanna put a torch to it, try heat gun on high setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted November 1, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted November 1, 2015 Here are pictures of what I did to get the shank out after the bolt was drilled out. I drilled 2 small pilot holes for needle nose pliers to hold the rebound cartridge in place. I admire the ingenuity of drilling the two holes to allow the use of a needle-nose pliers (curved ones would work be even better), but why didn't you just push the compression valve body into the cartridge, remove the internal c-clip, and pull it back out again? With the valve body removed from the cartridge, you would have all the access to the remainder of the bolt that you could have wanted... The spinning cartridge problem is only a problem when the forks are fully assembled, because at that point you cannot use tools to stop it spinning. You can certainly "pin" the valve body in place, but I would hesitate to do that, given that it was designed by Showa to remain free to move. However, I cannot see why this is necessary, so it might be worth eliminating the spinning valve body problem once and for all, though. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 +1 to the above push back valve body and remove c-clip shown below: I find the easiest way to do that is to start and one end and push the clip into the tube. when it is pushed out of it's seat you can grab it with some needle nose pliers. Use sliding rod (rebound valve) to push the compression valve body out of the tube and now it is easy to remove the bolt: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer LangoPTC Posted November 1, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted November 1, 2015 Be careful getting that c-clip out as the c-clip can take flight and never be seen again. If you feel your compression valve is FUBAR post a pic as I might be able to help you out if it is the same compression valve as a 6th gen (mine is definitely different than the pic above...similar but there's a nut below the cone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonque Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 Thanks for all of the pics they are super helpful. I wasn't sure how to get the rebound cartridge out. I just read of a c-clip. But pictures are worth a thousand words. I am assuming cartridge installation is the reverse of removal? Also does anyone know the the thread/pitch of the fork Allen bolt? I think it's M8 by something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sa1713 Posted November 1, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted November 1, 2015 If you mangle the assembly, I have a couple of 5th gen fork internals for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted November 1, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted November 1, 2015 The bolt is M8 x 1.25 (which is "standard" pitch), but has a low height (to clear the bigger side of the axle). You could use a "standard" M8 allen cap screw on the other side (the fork bottom with the smaller diameter axle hole), but that type of screw would interfere with the big part of the axle if used on the other side. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 You could use a "standard" M8 allen cap screw on the other sideYou can but the OEM bolt has a special design right below the head where the diameter increases slightly, stretching the copper washer and making a very (oil)tight fit. The OEM washer is also not a standard (metric) size washer. Go with OEM if you want to play it safe. I am assuming cartridge installation is the reverse of removal?Correct Remember to put some oil on the rubber O-ring before you slide the damper assembly back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonque Posted November 2, 2015 Author Share Posted November 2, 2015 okay, then its a trip to the local honda power sports tomorrow. sa1713 I will take you up on your offer if all goes terribly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted November 2, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted November 2, 2015 Thanks for all of the pics they are super helpful. I wasn't sure how to get the rebound cartridge out. I just read of a c-clip. But pictures are worth a thousand words. I am assuming cartridge installation is the reverse of removal? Also does anyone know the the thread/pitch of the fork Allen bolt? I think it's M8 by something? I agree with the suggestions to get an OEM bolt, while you are there I would also grab some new copper washers as these can be re-usable but I've also had occasions when they just keep weeping even though they're tight. To answer your question about the rebound valve, once you have the compression valve out (as others have said, push it in about 1 cm, pick out the circlip, and then tap it out using the rebound valve/rod, just be careful of the o-ring seal, don't want that to get ripped) the rebound valve will follow out of the cartridge tube in the same way (you need to remove the fork cap lock-nut obviously). If you want to change the rebound valve shims, the retaining nuts are held in place by peened-over threads, so you need to file the thread off flush with the end of the nut first, and then clean up the threads with a file before re-assembly. I bought a cheap tap and die set and have only ever used it on fork components, great for tidying up these threads, and for cleaning the compression valve body thread and bolt. Re-assembly is indeed the reverse of disassembly! I use just a trace of Loctite Blue on the cartridge assemblies, and the damper rod bolt. When you get to re-filling the fork with oil, you need to make sure the cartridge and fork is bled of air, just pump the fork tube up and down to displace air between the inner and outer tube, and for the cartridge just pump that up and down until you feel even resistance and an absence of air. Compress the fork fully, then set the oil level to 130mm from the top of the tube, then add spring, washer, spacer, washer and cupped washer before refitting the fork cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Kingmdm Posted November 3, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted November 3, 2015 The blue locktite on the alen bolt works but Honda recommends sealant like black peratex. That way you won't have a stuck bolt next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted November 3, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted November 3, 2015 My shop manual specifies to "apply a locking agent to the fork socket bolt threads". I only use Loctite Blue 243, and only a trace of that, and have never had a disassembly issue (and I have fiddled around with shims a fair bit). There is no benefit using a sealant as the seal for the fork bottoms occurs at the copper washer, not along the threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonque Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 i place an order for 2 more bolts and 2 more washers. This is set # 2. I am going to attack these forks again this weekend, weather is supposed to be nice. I am going to pull the whole damper cartridge apart check and clean it because I was kind of rough with the assembly trying to unstick the allen bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted November 3, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted November 3, 2015 Fonque, if I were you I would buy one of these: http://www.harborfreight.com/40-piece-metric-carbon-steel-tap-and-die-set-39384.html for $16, and clean out the threads on the compression body before you try to re-assemble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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