Front End

[750]

Thanks guys, much appreciated. I'm going to go for this I think, on my other VFR I'm going to fit the brackets needed for CBR calipers. I'll start a separate thread for that as I need some advice

[JZH]

Don't forget, this is a 3rd-gen, so fork swaps on other models won't necessarily be relevant. There have not been a lot of full fork conversions done on 3rd-gens, AFAIK, so accurate information is scant, but I believe I have read that there is an oil cooler interference issue that requires relocation or re-shaping of the oil cooler when RC51-style forks are swapped onto a 3rd-gen.

Fork length is the big issue, unless you want to risk the bike's stable handling by "experimenting" with the geometry. You can run the demo of Tony Foale's suspension program (www.tonyfoale.com/suskin/MotorcycleSetup.zip) and check what happens to rake and trail if you lower the front end at the same time as reducing the fork offset (which CBR/RC51 triples will do) without raising the rear end at the same time. (The "Attitude" sub-program seems to allow you to change parameters and do calculations.) Good luck!

Ciao,

[vfrcapn]

3rd gen is different hard parts but afaik, bike dimensions, wheelbase, rake, trail, are almost the same between the 3-4-5 gens, within a couple mm's. Here's the RC SP2 front end on my 5th gen, you can see how much fork is available. I like this particular set up as it gives me the most neutral feel, and no clearance issues to the front fender but it is at about the limit.

Here's a link to another example, not my bike. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/mcy/4879586044.html

[750]

That looks sweet. Can you show me a full pic of it?

[vfrcapn]

That looks sweet. Can you show me a full pic of it?

Here's a few.

[apexandy]

Keep in mind with 954/929 forks you most likely wouldn't be able to mount clip ons above the upper triple.

[750]

I'd go for Renthal style bars anyway. Or simply buy the CBR helibars

That looks sweet. Can you show me a full pic of it?

Here's a few.

Very nice!! Tell me more about those mahoosively tall handlebar risers

Keep in mind with 954/929 forks you most likely wouldn't be able to mount clip ons above the upper triple.

I'm still a bit confused about the 929/954 front. Can I bolt either/or straight in. Or does it require a mixture of both parts - i.e. triple clamps etc.

[CandyRedRC46]

If you want to use a 954 front end you'll need to mount dirt bike handle bars.

I am using R1 forks and 954 triple trees so I can mount my clip ons above the triple trees.

[750]

ok cool, did you just stick with an R1 wheel as well? What year R1 front by the way?

[SEBSPEED]

I have a set of 929/954 triples listed in the Classifieds here that I have already modified to fit a handlebar. I'm including risers and brand new steering bearings.

[apexandy]

^^ I would do this and save yourself lots of headaches.

[CandyRedRC46]

ok cool, did you just stick with an R1 wheel as well? What year R1 front by the way?

R1 wheel/forks/brakes

954 triple trees

You need custom 2mm spacers on the axle on either side of the wheel, and in between the wheel and discs with custom disc bolts to make it all work together. The disc spacer is basically just simple washers in between the wheel and discs. The bolts and axles spacers should be machined though.

Really the only cake drop in front end is the rc51. And even then the 954 upper triple tree is preferred for its gullwing shape and the lower triple tree will need the steering stops milled down.

I'm pretty sure I have a 954 lower and not an rc51 lower which may be a better fit.

[750]

ok cool, did you just stick with an R1 wheel as well? What year R1 front by the way?

R1 wheel/forks/brakes

954 triple trees

You need custom 2mm spacers on the axle on either side of the wheel, and in between the wheel and discs with custom disc bolts to make it all work together. The disc spacer is basically just simple washers in between the wheel and discs. The bolts and axles spacers should be machined though.

Is this because the 954 trees are a different width that the R1 variety?

[CandyRedRC46]

Yup 4mm wider

2mm extra on each side of the wheel.

[750]

I have a set of 929/954 triples listed in the Classifieds here that I have already modified to fit a handlebar. I'm including risers and brand new steering bearings.

Not sure if I'm being blind but I don't see them there!

[SEBSPEED]

I have made adapter sets in the past to pair R1 forks with 929/954/RC (214mm spacing) triples.

Spacer discs are easier to work with vs many washers, +2mm spacers are machined to accept OEM R1 dust caps.

[vfrcapn]

I'd go for Renthal style bars anyway. Or simply buy the CBR helibars

Very nice!! Tell me more about those mahoosively tall handlebar risers

Keep in mind with 954/929 forks you most likely wouldn't be able to mount clip ons above the upper triple.

I'm still a bit confused about the 929/954 front. Can I bolt either/or straight in. Or does it require a mixture of both parts - i.e. triple clamps etc.

The clip ons are Cycle Cat brand and as far as I know they are long out of business.

My point, with my pics, is, I'm showing almost 20mm of free fork with the gullwing upper. I don't know the length of the SP2 fork vs. the 954, but I wouldn't think the 954 fork was more than 20mm shorter, maybe, I'm sure the info is available here somehwere.

Fork length is a big issue, as was mentioned, but fork offset is a bigger issue. When you're swapping in these super sport fork triples with a much smaller offset designed for a bike with a steeper steering angle, you're going to increase trail. If you do nothing else but swap in the RC front end, without adjusting ride height front or back, the trail ('99 in this example) will go from 95.5mm to 110.3mm because the offset goes from 43mm to 30mm, the 3G is going to be similar. Drop the bike's front and raise the rear and you can get the trail back under 100mm, but then the shorter 954 forks should work with the gullwing upper and with enough room for traditional clipons.

[750]

Superb info. I need to get my head round the trail/rake thing then I can start working this out for myself.

I was putting some additional bits on my bike today and thought I'd look at the rear shock settings. I was surprised to find the adjuster only turned rather than clicked. I gave it a few turns to the right and it seemed to stiffen the rear quite a bit. I need to do a proper sag test, something to do tomorrow!

[Auspanglish]

We need an excell spreadsheet with all the different yoke and fork and wheel dimensions...

[CandyRedRC46]

I have made adapter sets in the past to pair R1 forks with 929/954/RC (214mm spacing) triples.

Spacer discs are easier to work with vs many washers, +2mm spacers are machined to accept OEM R1 dust caps.

Omg please sell me a set of those disc spacers!!!!

[SEBSPEED]

Shoot me a PM if you're serious

[SoCal97VFR]

I just swapped a 929 front end onto my 97 VFR. Simply remove the top triple clamp on the 929, unbolt the stem, slide it off the neck and slide it onto the VFR neck, tighten stem, install top clamp, and you are done... converted. I used the stock 929 clipons which are factory raised and left them under the top clamp and just migrated all my controls over. I even unbolted the key assembly from the VFR clamp and bolted in right onto the stock 929 clamp, no drama. You can use your stock brake master with the 929 calipers if you have adjustable levers. This is because the throw is longer with the small diameter master plunger so the adjustment will be maxed out to compensate, but it works well. That's about where the easy parts end unless you are good loosing max turning radius. To be honest, you wont really notice it out riding but it makes moving the bike in tight places like the garage a bit of a pain. What remains to make it better are some full lock clearance issues with the radiator (I indexed mine back but using stock fairings may complicate this) and a slight adjustment of the oil cooler mount to accomodate the large fork tubes brushing past. The CBR 929RR forks are shorter than the stock forks so at full stuff you may have some contact with the fender and radiator, hence moving it back a little is advised to prevent this. This can be mitigated by adjusting your preload all the way in on the 929 forks which when all is said an done is where a 200lb riders sag ends up being anyway. Easy bolt on solution is fork cap extenders which buy you 25mm more length and problem solved, they run $200 though. Handling is fantastic and the brakes are 330 mm (most sport bikes are 320mm), biggest out there and the VFR finally stops like a proper race bike!

I also reccomend the CBR 929RR rear shock swap. Finishes off full adjust ability for the complete modern ride. While the shock is directly bolt on, you do need to extend the upper mount to make up for lost length but its minor.

I did the CBR 600RR body swap because VFR fairings are expensive and hardly available, improved headlight, better aerodynamics, plentiful parts, bolts almost directly on using factory bolt holes, and selling my stock VFR fairings paid for the entire front/rear CBR 929 suspension swap and the body swap with cash left over in my pocket!

[750]

Now then, how hard was that to type up. After what feels like trying to find some solid info somewhere, along you come. I'm really appreciating this mate, I'm just gonna go for it! Can you PM me details on the fairing swap as well as I wouldn't mind doing that to my white VFR once it's fixed up. Cheers!!!

[apexandy]

Now then, how hard was that to type up. After what feels like trying to find some solid info somewhere, along you come. I'm really appreciating this mate, I'm just gonna go for it!

I'm going to be very honest in response to this comment. There is some very good information from many members on this thread, and there are good reasons why you seem to be having trouble finding solid information.

-Modifying motorcycles can get complicated fast. One component change can result in 5+ more modifications being needed.

-A lot of information regarding fork swaps can translate from one bike to another, but there are a lot of details that can be different.

-Related fork swap topics and probably most of your questions have been addressed quite often in various past threads and topics on this site as well as many others. A lot of information can be learned by diligent searching and reading.

-Even in depth experience and information from a source can be incomplete or inaccurate. This can result from separate model/modification issues, or maybe just one persons standard of quality compared to another.

To explain a little more I'm going to address a few of SOCal97VFR's points. And this isn't meant to say he wasn't thorough or truthful, but I do notice some potential issues:

I used the stock 929 clipons which are factory raised and left them under the top clamp and just migrated all my controls over.

-There is a very good chance the stock 929 clipons won't work with your VFR fairings. Thus requiring higher clip-ons or handlebars. Which can in turn require longer brake lines, and potentially different clutch line and throttle cables. Fork cap extenders (I know little about them) are potentially an option for mounting clip ons above the upper triple, but again, another modification to take into account.

You can use your stock brake master with the 929 calipers if you have adjustable levers. This is because the throw is longer with the small diameter master plunger so the adjustment will be maxed out to compensate, but it works well.

-I would say using a master cylinder with that big of a difference in size is a safety risk. Every rider rides differently, SOCal97VFR might use 3 or 4 fingers to brake, whereas I use 2, and I am willing to bet I would pull the lever right against my 2 fingers on the throttle before reaching maximum braking force. The stock VFR master cylinder is 12.7mm and 929 is 19mm. That's a big difference. An example of where it gets tricky relying completely on someone else's info is that the 954 have visually identical brake callipers but with different piston sizes, and a smaller master cylinder at 17mm.

That's about where the easy parts end unless you are good loosing max turning radius.

-SOCal97VFR didn't mention steering stops. Without drilling and tapping for bolts the 929 forks would contact the frame on my 95 vfr.

This can be mitigated by adjusting your preload all the way in on the 929 forks which when all is said an done is where a 200lb riders sag ends up being anyway.

-Basically any stock bike can benefit greatly from suspension adjustment and rebuilding… fork swaps are no different. Taking forks from a 450 lb sport bike (that were too lightly sprung from the get go) and putting them on a 550 lb sport touring bike isn't going to be a magical fix. My bike is 80lbs less that a stock VFR and I weight 180. I maxed out the stock 929 preload adjusters and was still only at 45mm front sag. That was before I had my 929/954 fork and shock re-sprung and valved. And this is all besides the point that no motorcycle should have parts touching under full suspension compression. Adjusting preload isn't the way to fix that.

I also reccomend the CBR 929RR rear shock swap. Finishes off full adjust ability for the complete modern ride. While the shock is directly bolt on, you do need to extend the upper mount to make up for lost length but its minor.

-Again, tons of info on here about shock swaps. And they aren't necessary that straight forward either. 929 shocks aren't necessarily going to be a great improvement until resprung and valved, and not everyone on here would call fabricating a well engineered shock extension a minor modification.

And all of this is information pertaining to the 4th gen VFR, which is very similar to a 3rd gen, but not completely the same. I hope I haven't come across too critical but this is a very knowledgable and helpful forum and usually if there aren't answers to questions I believe it's because nobody has done it before, or because it has been discussed many times previous. Good luck with your modding!

[750]

See, his info and yours together in a single thread is probably all anyone will ever need for THIS specific conversion. The whole thread can be deleted and just the posts from you two stickied, would save anyone ever having to ask again, right?!