SEBSPEED Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 See, his info and yours together in a single thread is probably all anyone will ever need for THIS specific conversion. The whole thread can be deleted and just the posts from you two stickied, would save anyone ever having to ask again, right?! It's a start. I don't think I'm going out on a limb when I say this: If you're relying solely on information taken from the internet to modify your bike without having some understanding of what you're doing and why, you probably shouldn't be working on your bike. "Trust, but verify" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted February 20, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 20, 2015 Amen to that Trust is good Control is better..... But Johny be Good and post up your experiences as you progress your build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
750 Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Bit of an oxymoron that though. How can you ever learn without either having absolute info via an end to end procedure guide or just giving it a go yourself with part info and correcting any mistakes you make along the way? No offence intended, just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal97VFR Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Apexandy makes a lot of great points and solid info toward fine tuning. My intention was to show the minimal it would take to get you back on 2 wheels, say if you were doing this at an apartment where you are not allowed to work on your bike and cant leave it disassembled, or if this was your primary mode of transportation and you still need to commute the next day. It seems most people work this way, I try to keep methods simple for forums, however I have far more resources at hand. It is your responsibility to do this safely and within reason. There really is no complete guide to completion as some people may just call it quits there and say done (I see this all the time, I try not to judge, hipster territory), others may stretch the swingarm and go drag racing (Florida?), or as in my case you may use this as a starting point, rolling proof of concept to begin preparing the bike for the mountain/track which as in any bike will require a lot of additional mods. No matter how you word it, people will read out of it what they want to read. Apexandy did a good job of extracting my subtle highlights about areas that will need attention depending on how far you intend to take your build. Know the difference between a short term bandaid and a long term solution. For instance, softly sprung forks can easily be bandaided with slightly more fork oil to make them stiffer. This effectively reduces the sealed air gap in the fork. Less air, less compression, fork is stiffer like an air shock. While this works short term, it is not a good long term solution. Same thing with the adjustable lever on the stock master cylinder, you can peak it out and the throw of the lever no longer compresses too close to the bar. The feel is a little spongy but it can work short term to buy you some time to get it done right. Use common sense, if an adjustment is peaked out then it requires modification to correct the underlying problem. If there is going to be a rollup of this thread into a single attempt at a proper build then please let me add some more detailed info, this is often more than the general person can digest though: 929 forks are shorter, period. Use fork cap extenders to gain length and clearance at full compression and or a custom upper clamp that can accommodate mounting them down lower. Both of these approaches are semi costly. Shorter forks also means less ground clearance, less rake, less trail, and less wheelbase. Understand these effects on handling and decide if this meets your riding style. 929 triple clamps have less offset. Understand this affect on handling. This brings the larger diameter forks closer to the headstock and thus closer to the frame which is why the forks hit the radiator/frame with less turning radius. 929 forks have progressive rate springs so typical sag settings do not apply, if you are going to be pushing the bike hard then I recommend replacing these with linear rate springs setup for your weight. RaceTech has them for $99 US. You will need a special tool and some basic knowledge of forks to change them yourself. As eluded to, while the front brake master can be made to work initially, it is not an optimal long term solution, a modern Radial Master is recommended. Having said all that, we often go overboard on details related to perfect world scenarios. My rolling concept today with the stock master cyl and stock 929 forks brake better and handle better in the corners than my stock VFR forks and brakes ever did. I was fortunate enough to ride a friends converted VFR with stock 929 front and rear suspension prior to beginning down my own build and can say that even though the stock 929 rear spring is a bit soft, with only adjustments, it far outshines the stock vfr shock as is. And that is the whole point toward these mods. However, once you have these mods in place, your next target is to begin comparing what you have to more modern bikes with similar setups and that is where these additional details become important to pay attention to if you want to perform as they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal97VFR Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Oh add one more for ApexAndy in relation to the fork springs, 954 forks and 929 forks are not the same internally. There is a difference in the spring/rod length that in turn makes the 954 forks softer overall. I was thankfully clued into this before I bought my front end so I avoided that pitfal. But as ApexAndy says, the devil is in the details and 929/954 stuff gets erroneously clumped in as the same all the time. Also the 929 rear shock is not the same as 954 rear shock which doesn't fit without much more modifications and here too is a difference in spring rate. JohnLondon, see my build thread for the specific clearances that you will need to take into account related to the shorter forks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Just saw this. On my project thread there are some pics & details of the RC51 fork conversion. few notes:SP2 triples won't fit the VFR as the stem is thicker on SP2's (SP2's had a larger head stock than SP1), so only SP1 triples will work on a VFR conversion.Ss I understand it 954 triples will also fit fine and allow use of 50mm forks. I had a spare SP1 lower bearing and seal together with a new set of VFR (All Balls) head bearings. IIRC I used SP1 lower bearings and VFR top.The original lock stops will need grinding off. You'll use part of the upper cowl & instruments frame as lock-stops instead after moving the oil cooler further back & upward. I found this easy to do - not much fabrication needed. I think I cut away a couple of brackets on said frame too. I just rounded off the area where the fork legs hit and it works OK. Lock is quite reduced compared to standard, but aside from it becoming a bit more of a pain to push the bike about, it's not been a problem. I haven't had any difficulties with the fender hitting the radiator, etc. so far. Might lower the front a little sometime, as it could probably steer a little quicker for my tastes..I had some riser bars on at first that didn't work, but used Convertibars instead, which gave me similar positioning to the original bars with plenty of adjustment possible. I may lower them down a bit too, which is possible with these. Throttle cables are just on their limit - a tiny bit short now, but they work OK and it's possible steer the bike without the throttle cables getting stiff at full lock. I also fitted RC51 throttle and RHS switches, so I could use an HRC tube for a quicker throttle. The original VFR ignition ignition lock fits the SP1 upper triple but with reduced steering, you cannot use the steering lock any more. It's not a cheap conversion to do, as RC51 front ends are sought after and rare (since a front collision will usually bend the forks on an RC51 but rarely the frame, since it's very strong around the headstock).Fortunately I had the complete front end off my SP2 which was uprated from standard with Ohlins forks, etc. so these bits were available for the conversion, otherwise I wouldn't have necessarily gone down this route.I haven't tried, but I know from seeing others do it that 954 forks are a straight fit on an RC51 and it's probably cheaper & more plentiful - so that's another possible option for conversions... CBR1000 wheels are a direct fit onto RC51's too... Some other notes whiilst I remember them:RC51 brakes are strong as standard (SP2 discs are 1mm thicker than SP2 & therefore less prone to warping). Master cylinders are different between the two models.These brakes respond well to a Brembo RCS 18-20 master cylinder.SP2 5 spoke front wheel is lighter than the 6 spoke SP1. One thing to bear in mind if fitting RC51 forks is the SP2 ones are better than SP1's. Internals are not the same nor are the fork tops. Also caliper brackets on SP1 are different to those on SP2 and are not interchangeable. RC51 discs are 320mm. I think CBR954 / 929 may be 310mm and maybe CBR1000, but don't quote me on that. Check disc diameters of models to be sure, if mixing & matching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal97VFR Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Cbr 929/954 front rotors are 330mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erbilabuc Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 a complete cbrr 600rr front end is a direct swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
750 Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 Well nobody can say that's not aggressive as hell! Any issues with steering lock/radiator clearance etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer paladinreed Posted March 5, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted March 5, 2015 K serieseries gsxr are also direct bolt on with a simple change of the bearings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erbilabuc Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Well nobody can say that's not aggressive as hell! Any issues with steering lock/radiator clearance etc? nothing. its like it came from factory. you use the cbr600rr bearings too unless you want to reuse the vfr bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal97VFR Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Just to clarify the above statement, it has all the same issues as the 929 forks with lock to lock and full compression clearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted March 5, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted March 5, 2015 Because, compared with the VFR forks, they're short... Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
750 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 Interesting, quite a lot easier to get a Gixxer front end over here than a cbr one. That also means the sv1000 front end will fit which I believe had longer forks and sorting for a hacker bike. Not USD though but who cares about that in the grand scheme of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 not USD, and not radial brake calipers either. ive got gixxer 600 forks and calipers like reed, using a ducati 848 front wheel and gix 1000K4 rotors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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