SuperBeef Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Hi New member and the first post is one looking for advice, which I appreciate is a bit cheeky but still I am desperate to get this sorted and back on the road. I have been lurking for the last 3 months since I bought the bike, and appreciate the wealth of information from this site. Bought an 03 VFR 4 months ago, VTEC version registered late 04 with 36k on it FSH up to 28k with receipts for the rest. No mods to the engine which would cause this issue as far as I'm aware, although a scottoiler has been fitted and I haven't as of yet got round to exposing the vacuum tubing to have a look at the joint. Aside from that its just handling/aesthetics mods like touring screen, heated grips, slip ons and an ohlins. I had the valve check done on this 3 weeks ago by a big, popular and well established dealer with a relatively long wait list at times so I am confident that the work was carried out correctly and was going to carry out the rest of a service with a couple of mods like a power commander this weekend. Riding home late last week in medium traffic, cruising at 70-80 with low rev's say 5-6k. See a low speed vehicle in front so prepare to got for the overtake by dropping it down to preprae to pull into the overtaking lane and accelerate. As I get on the power again having downshifted there is a momentary loss in power, followed by what I assume is an bang coming from the intake. It then rides terribly for about 15 seconds, I cant pull over at that time, so ease off the throttle, on the overrun it sounds terrible so clutch in and pull over. As I pull over engine settles down and idles but only on 3. There is also a fair amount of noise coming from the intake every fourth compression. Ease it home as Im 3 miles from the door and its midnight with work to go to. Get it home gradually nursing it and shortfiting below 5k. Dimsmantled it today, take off the airbox lid and there is a smell of petrol in the filter as though it has been flooded by it. There is also a lot of rubbish kicked out of the rear near side air funnel. In addition to this there is quite a bit of this mustard yellow looking fluid splashing about in the intake housing for the tube going to the crank case breather. Looking at http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/73155-high-mileage-99-vfr800-and-poor-fuel-economy/it seems to be the fuel pressure regulator. But would that explain the terrible running for 15-20 seconds as described? Is there the potential for any long term damage? Ideally I dont want to take the heads of unless I really have to. In terms of how it was running when I rode it home, on three cylinders with low power. Approaching lights on the clutch in the engine would almost cut out so I heald the throttle at around 2k revs to prevent a stall. Its also running very rich and the exhaust stinks of fuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Call the workshop that did the valves... that is a major job and requires opening up the motor... and it was only 3 weeks ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted December 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 21, 2014 Did it blow a spark plug out ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBeef Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 Call the workshop that did the valves... that is a major job and requires opening up the motor... and it was only 3 weeks ago... Im going in to speak with them tomorow. Did it blow a spark plug out ? Ive not got that far yet, have new plugs on the way to go in. My plan was to do oil/plugs/filter myself then fit the power commander. There didnt seem to be a violent jolt when I was riding it, more a bang with lots of noise for 15-20 seconds as decribed but cant tell if that was metal on metal. The FI light is not on by the way, I forgot to add that at first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 First off welcome to VFRD and Sorry this is your first post!!!! You own one of the most Bullet Proof motors in history, one blowing up is an extremely rare occurrence. As mentioned I would tend to look at the work recently performed as the main possibility. Keep us updated. BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted December 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 22, 2014 Wow, that's a bummer. While extremely rare, I do seem to recall where someone posted up that they had one that dropped a valve. Since you have the airbox lid off, it would be interesting to have a look down the air intake stacks. Shine a flashlight down and open the throttle plates - you can look directly at the intake valves and see if they look normal. If the compression's gone in a cylinder, the dealer probably has a scope they can look in the cylinders with. Best of luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted December 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 22, 2014 You could have bent some valves. Go ahead and pull the plugs first . And post some pic's please . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 It could be a number of things but the one fact that sticks out to me is you had valve service don't recently, I would 100% have the timing re inspected. I know of 3 friends bikes that had dealer valve inspection & each one had same type of failures which were caused because dealer mechanic had cam timing wrong. Due to the fact the cams have to be removed a number of times to do vtec valve service & the tensioner is removed it is easy for one cam to be a tooth out if major care isn't taken. One friends motor suffered major damage because the dealer installed a cam cap the wrong way round which blocked off oil ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otaylor38 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 It could be a number of things but the one fact that sticks out to me is you had valve service don't recently, I would 100% have the timing re inspected. I know of 3 friends bikes that had dealer valve inspection & each one had same type of failures which were caused because dealer mechanic had cam timing wrong. Due to the fact the cams have to be removed a number of times to do vtec valve service & the tensioner is removed it is easy for one cam to be a tooth out if major care isn't taken. One friends motor suffered major damage because the dealer installed a cam cap the wrong way round which blocked off oil ways. This makes me glad i havent had my 16k valve clearance done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted December 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 22, 2014 It could be a number of things but the one fact that sticks out to me is you had valve service don't recently, I would 100% have the timing re inspected. I know of 3 friends bikes that had dealer valve inspection & each one had same type of failures which were caused because dealer mechanic had cam timing wrong. Due to the fact the cams have to be removed a number of times to do vtec valve service & the tensioner is removed it is easy for one cam to be a tooth out if major care isn't taken. One friends motor suffered major damage because the dealer installed a cam cap the wrong way round which blocked off oil ways. This makes me glad i havent had my 16k valve clearance done. We don't do valve checks here UNTIL we have a good reason . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBeef Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 First off welcome to VFRD and Sorry this is your first post!!!! You own one of the most Bullet Proof motors in history, one blowing up is an extremely rare occurrence. As mentioned I would tend to look at the work recently performed as the main possibility. Keep us updated. BR Thanks for the welcome. Ive seen the "other" thread with a problem similar to this, it was BO I think. Exact same symptoms turned out to be a dropped valve. One of the main reasons for going for this bike was the all round reliability meant I could use it as a commuter too. Wow, that's a bummer. While extremely rare, I do seem to recall where someone posted up that they had one that dropped a valve. Since you have the airbox lid off, it would be interesting to have a look down the air intake stacks. Shine a flashlight down and open the throttle plates - you can look directly at the intake valves and see if they look normal. If the compression's gone in a cylinder, the dealer probably has a scope they can look in the cylinders with. Best of luck with it. I'm going to pull the other funnel off either tomorrow, or Xmas Eve because I am off work. There is a lot of compression noise similar to a blown spark plug or running the engine without a spark plug. If I can get a helper to turn the back wheel I'll take a video on my phone You could have bent some valves. Go ahead and pull the plugs first . And post some pic's please . Havent got as far as the plugs, as mentioned above something I'll be doing tomorrow or Wednesday. Pics are attached of how far down I have got into the engine (not far!) But shows all the rubbish to come out of the throttle body It could be a number of things but the one fact that sticks out to me is you had valve service don't recently, I would 100% have the timing re inspected. I know of 3 friends bikes that had dealer valve inspection & each one had same type of failures which were caused because dealer mechanic had cam timing wrong. Due to the fact the cams have to be removed a number of times to do vtec valve service & the tensioner is removed it is easy for one cam to be a tooth out if major care isn't taken. One friends motor suffered major damage because the dealer installed a cam cap the wrong way round which blocked off oil ways. Were they all VFRs? My plan is to strip it down myself to find the cause and then if the dealer it to blame I can go and have a chat in an attempt to resolve it. It could be a number of things but the one fact that sticks out to me is you had valve service don't recently, I would 100% have the timing re inspected. I know of 3 friends bikes that had dealer valve inspection & each one had same type of failures which were caused because dealer mechanic had cam timing wrong. Due to the fact the cams have to be removed a number of times to do vtec valve service & the tensioner is removed it is easy for one cam to be a tooth out if major care isn't taken. One friends motor suffered major damage because the dealer installed a cam cap the wrong way round which blocked off oil ways. This makes me glad i havent had my 16k valve clearance done. The most annoying thing to me is I spoke with the service department about bothering about a 36k check. Said I have heard of them going to 64k with no issues. Said that I could get a new engine for around £2-300 if it went bang so was tempted to run it until I had an issue. Then changed my mind and got it checked as the bike was new to me and didnt have a history of having it done. The check sheet I have states they were all to spec by the way. It could be a number of things but the one fact that sticks out to me is you had valve service don't recently, I would 100% have the timing re inspected. I know of 3 friends bikes that had dealer valve inspection & each one had same type of failures which were caused because dealer mechanic had cam timing wrong. Due to the fact the cams have to be removed a number of times to do vtec valve service & the tensioner is removed it is easy for one cam to be a tooth out if major care isn't taken. One friends motor suffered major damage because the dealer installed a cam cap the wrong way round which blocked off oil ways. This makes me glad i havent had my 16k valve clearance done. We don't do valve checks here UNTIL we have a good reason . How do you know if they are within spec unless you get them checked? Sounds more as though you are waiting for the problem to occur then remedy it rather than a bit of proactive maintentance and servicing Pics are of the airbox mess, apologies for the quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted December 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 22, 2014 You have blown a piston my friend SORRY !! Call the shop that did the work and tell them you drop a valve and your motor is trashed . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFRMAN Posted December 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 22, 2014 Surely the shop is liable for this damage,I wouldn't touch it,put it on a trailer and leave it with them to sort,you have legal rights here IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted December 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 22, 2014 Let's hope . ^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otaylor38 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Tight valves are too quiet and can have trouble starting the engine from cold, lose valves are noisy so youd notice. I think thats right? Mm what a bad do you're having! I dont know what rights you have in your country, but in the UK youd defo have the law on your side IMO. All the best with it mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roebling3 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Don't touch anything on that engine! Don't even inspect, poke, move, adjust or start the engine. If you do whatever the dealer finds wrong with the engine will fall on you. Any warrantee to the recent service work will be null & voided. R3~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted December 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 22, 2014 +1 forget about pulling the plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mk2davis Posted December 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 22, 2014 Think of it as a crime scene. Any poking around you do will contaminate the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted December 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 22, 2014 Darn lucky it did not lockup the motor. Could have been catastrophic . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworth Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 SuperBeef you're getting a lot of amateur speculation here with no actual troubleshooting procedure. A simple compression check will tell you if the piston or valve have been damaged. That is the very first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted December 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 22, 2014 SuperBeef you're getting a lot of amateur speculation here with no actual troubleshooting procedure. A simple compression check will tell you if the piston or valve have been damaged. That is the very first step. Yeah I only have 40 years of owning, working on motorcycle's and was ASI certified for 20 year. I fill safe to tell you have had a catastrophic engine failure. And if I were you I would not do anything to the bike until you have talk to repair shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted December 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 22, 2014 Simple check as you have the airbox off, just lock the throttle full open & use a torch to look down the intakes. If you have lost an intake valve it will be obvious immediately. You should be able to see into 3 of the 4 cylinders and slowly turning it over by hand will show the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted December 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 22, 2014 And another thing what ever do DO NOT ride this bike anywhere's. PLEASE ! More then likely it will drop more valve's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabio222 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 So....what happened in the end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted January 15, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 15, 2015 Hello ? Hello ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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